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SCOTUS strikes down Texas sodomy ban
FOXnews

Posted on 06/26/2003 7:08:23 AM PDT by Thane_Banquo

SCOTUS sided with the perverts.


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
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Comment #501 Removed by Moderator

To: OWK
There are five degrees of fool in the Proverbs. I think you've hit #5.
502 posted on 06/26/2003 9:37:36 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: BlackjackHF
...for the SC to usurp the powers constitutionally delegated to the legislature and impose its morality on us.

you've got it just backward. scotus did not create a law imposing a certain morality, it struck down a law which did so.

503 posted on 06/26/2003 9:37:43 AM PDT by jethropalerobber
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To: Lazamataz
I mean, geez - I despise Harry Browne, think that most of the LP plank is goofy, and have voted straight GOP for years, but it is way beyond the pale to lie and say they're for pedophiles.

Besides, this opinion isn't going to affect the household of a single hysterical person on this thread (well, it might jack up some blood pressure, but thats about it).

Frankly, I've never understood why people could get so worked up about what other people do with their sex organs.

504 posted on 06/26/2003 9:38:01 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (...road trip.....)
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To: The Red Zone
The Bill of Rights never spelled out a generalized sodomy right

You're one of those... one of those people who have the fundamentally mistaken notion that individual rights are only those expressly listed in the Bill of Rights, otherwise it is forbidden. Sorry, get educated and come back later.

505 posted on 06/26/2003 9:38:25 AM PDT by tdadams
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To: B Knotts
Good thing we've got all those Republicans on the court.

And this about sums it up....

506 posted on 06/26/2003 9:38:55 AM PDT by Joe Hadenuf (RECALL DAVIS, position his smoking chair over a trapdoor, a memo for the next governor.)
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To: jmc813
War Between The States. The usual "The South was invaded by an aggressor foreign nation" vs "the South had no power to secede therefore Lincoln did what was right, proper, and necessary to keep America great, whole, and just" debates. Fun to read and watch, if you like flamewar threads that say the same thing every time they are posted.
507 posted on 06/26/2003 9:39:03 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: steveegg
"It was Kennedy,"

Kennedy wrote the last pro-homo decision back in 1996. Romer v Evans,

http://www.rdrop.com/~half/Creations/Writings/Romer-v-Evans/Romer-v-Evans.html#MajorityOpinion
508 posted on 06/26/2003 9:39:31 AM PDT by Those_Crazy_Liberals (Ronaldus Magnus he's our man . . . If he can't do it, no one can.)
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To: unspun
I don't want my sister to get AIDS because her husband is a deviant, do you? --whether it's 69 or done in serial fashion.

We all want the best for our families and our society, but these types of choices are between the hypothetical sister and her husband, not the sister, husband, government, and me.

The logical conclusion of your line of thinking is that the government can regulate your brother-in-law's diet and exercise regimin, lest he die early and leave your sister a destitute burden on society.

Once you begin to walk down that proverbial road, there is nothing the government can not and should not regulate.

509 posted on 06/26/2003 9:40:18 AM PDT by nravoter (I've given a name to my pain, and it's "Hillary".)
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To: ewing
So this ruling is only striking down the laws in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas and Missouri where the application is not equal under the law?

no, they did not rely on equal protection, so the laws in all states (including my own utah) are now history - thank God.

510 posted on 06/26/2003 9:40:29 AM PDT by jethropalerobber
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To: 88keys
Perhaps the original Texas law is/was poorly written

Try unconstitutional.

511 posted on 06/26/2003 9:40:38 AM PDT by finnman69 (!)
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Comment #512 Removed by Moderator

To: Past Democrat
"Consenting adults" is the operative phrase, not welcome participant.
513 posted on 06/26/2003 9:41:00 AM PDT by ffusco
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To: OWK
"striking down the criminalization of sodomy was widely anticipated as almost certain. As well it should have been." Yea, we could have been much farther along in the AIDS epidemic by now had sodomy been legal all along!
514 posted on 06/26/2003 9:41:15 AM PDT by bk1000
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To: BlackjackHF
So you believe in the individual liberties of Pedophiles?

This thread is moving way too fast for me to even consider refuting all the usual straw men. Grow up and read the decision. Kennedy addressed that in his opinion.

515 posted on 06/26/2003 9:41:42 AM PDT by tdadams
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
I despise Harry Browne

Who do you despise more, Browne or Buchanan? :-)

516 posted on 06/26/2003 9:42:22 AM PDT by jmc813 (If you're interested in joining a FR list to discuss Big Brother 4 on CBS, please FReepmail me)
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To: The Red Zone
Just as I thought.

Gutless.

517 posted on 06/26/2003 9:42:50 AM PDT by OWK
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To: Lazamataz
First they came for anti-miscegenation laws, but I didn't speak up because I think some of those black sistahs are pretty hot.

Then they came for the blue laws, but I didn't speak up because I sometimes like to check out lawn tractors at Home Depot on Sunday.

Then they came for the marijuana laws, but I didn't speak up because, dude, I was totally toasted.

Then they came for the sodomy laws, but I didn't speak up because hey, whatever, as long as they're not doing it in the mall food court.

And then there was no one left to speak up for the window-peeping blue nosed religious extremists, because everybody else was at home busy drinking and sodomizing and race-mixing and such.

518 posted on 06/26/2003 9:42:54 AM PDT by IowaHawk
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To: tdadams
the fundamentally mistaken notion that individual rights are only those expressly listed in the Bill of Rights

No, I never said that. Go back and read it again.

519 posted on 06/26/2003 9:43:12 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: goldstategop
Justice Scalia's dissent is brilliant. He exposes to clear view the hypocrisy and inconsistency of the majority.

Interestingly, he says the majority did not rely on Griswold's privacy right; he says they decided that no legitimate state interest was shown.

520 posted on 06/26/2003 9:43:19 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: Teacher317
Fun to read and watch, if you like flamewar threads that say the same thing every time they are posted.

Hell, I maintain the Drug War ping list. I live for those threads. ;-)

521 posted on 06/26/2003 9:43:34 AM PDT by jmc813 (If you're interested in joining a FR list to discuss Big Brother 4 on CBS, please FReepmail me)
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Comment #522 Removed by Moderator

To: tdadams
This thread is moving way too fast for me to even consider refuting all the usual straw men.

You are witnessing the temper tantrums of a minority that has been exposed as exactly that.

Most people still believe in American values like individualism and liberty. This decision memorializes those virtues, and they don't like it.

Trace

523 posted on 06/26/2003 9:44:20 AM PDT by Trace21230 (Ideal MOAB test site: Paris)
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
...but it is way beyond the pale to lie and say they're for pedophiles.

You mean I can't paint them? Shoot, and here I was all ready to paint some Libertarians.


524 posted on 06/26/2003 9:44:40 AM PDT by wimpycat
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To: OWK
Just as I thought. Fifth degree foolishness.
525 posted on 06/26/2003 9:44:41 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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Comment #526 Removed by Moderator

To: BlackjackHF
If they are against the government legislating morality, they are against the government banning pedophilia.

If someone is against the government banning alcohol, does that automatically mean they want marijuana legalized?

527 posted on 06/26/2003 9:45:33 AM PDT by jmc813 (If you're interested in joining a FR list to discuss Big Brother 4 on CBS, please FReepmail me)
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To: jmc813
Who do you despise more, Browne or Buchanan?

Browne. At least Pat Buchanan doesn't lie about believing that Congress is Israeli-occupied territory.

528 posted on 06/26/2003 9:45:44 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.)
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To: The Red Zone
It's just a simple little question.

What are rights?

What are their extent?

What are their limitations?

Why are you afraid to answer?

529 posted on 06/26/2003 9:45:49 AM PDT by OWK
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To: Dead Corpse
"I can hardly credit that on a website called "Free Republic", that people would be having a serious discussion of what laws should govern bedroom conduct between consenting adults."

It's simple. Many here are conservatives in name only. They're for what suits them, but against anything that goes against their particular religious beliefs. That way, they can claim conservatism while advocating that all gays be punished, along with all Muslims and anyone else they don't like.

The Constitution? It's irrelevant to such folks, except as it applies directly to their desires.
530 posted on 06/26/2003 9:46:14 AM PDT by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Lazamataz
(eyes narrow) Say..... you aren't one of them rapist child molesters, are ya?

Nope. I have been known to cause hair cancer though...

531 posted on 06/26/2003 9:46:16 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: jmc813
Buchanan, hands down. Browne is a distant second, LOL.

Hell, Ol' Pat is probably rolling around on the floor and frothing at the mouth about now.

532 posted on 06/26/2003 9:46:37 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (...road trip.....)
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To: BlackjackHF
If you are in favor of this ruling you are in favor of pedophilia because you are saying that the government has no right to ban it.

1. This decision deals with consensual adult sex.

2. Pedophilia is never consensual because children cannot consent to sex.

3. There is no comparison between the two.

4. You look very foolish and ignorant when you treat them as the the same thing.

Trace

533 posted on 06/26/2003 9:46:44 AM PDT by Trace21230 (Ideal MOAB test site: Paris)
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To: jethropalerobber
you've got it just backward. scotus did not create a law imposing a certain morality, it struck down a law which did so.

As Scalia said in his dissent, it is not the Court's place to do either. That is the job of the people and their elected representatives (legislatures). You should read the dissent. Imposing the concept that the morality of a community cannot be reflected in its laws is imposing morality -- immorality. The people of Texas have no say, yet they will pay the tab for all the social results. They should be able to bill The 6 Supremes to enforced this on them. They chose it.

534 posted on 06/26/2003 9:46:50 AM PDT by RAT Patrol (Congress can give one American a dollar only by first taking it away from another American. -W.W.)
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To: Liberal Classic
I'm not even gonna touch that one.
535 posted on 06/26/2003 9:47:05 AM PDT by jmc813 (If you're interested in joining a FR list to discuss Big Brother 4 on CBS, please FReepmail me)
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To: jmc813
There are three kinds of flamewar threads that get this way. The War Between the States, The War on (some) Drugs, and Microsoft versus Linux.
536 posted on 06/26/2003 9:47:09 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.)
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To: gdani
So giving unelected federal judges the power to write state law is decreasing the size of government?

There are actually some restrictions on liberty that enhance liberty overall.

Think of it like this. Traffic laws restrict your liberty. They require you to stop at red lights, drive on the right side of the yellow line, etc. However, they actually enhance your liberty to travel. How far would you get if all the traffic laws were repealed, and people were "liberated" to drive on whichever side of the road they wished, to ignore red lights and stop signs, to park wherever they wished?

Laws which keep homosexuality in the closet do, technically, restrict the liberty of the few people wishing to engage in that disgusting behavior. But they enhance the overall liberty of society. Because uncloseted homosexuality goes on a rampage against the liberty of the general populace.

It starts with disease. Homosexual acts are far more likely to transmit disease than heterosexual acts. So the bathhouse culture that arises when homosexual conduct is legalized and tolerated triggers a sharp increase in AIDS and other STDs. The result? Billions more in tax dollars is siphoned out of our pockets to pay medical bills, and taxation is itself a restriction on liberty.

Next, uncloseted homosexuals demand that opposition to or even disapproval of their conduct be suppressed. So we get speech codes telling us what we can and can't say. We get called a bigot if we fail to take our small children to Disneyworld on "Gay Day". We get governmental decrees ordering schools to teach your kids that homosexuality is normal, and if your religion teaches otherwise, well then, it's "bigoted". We get more and more laws dicatating who people can hire, who they can rent an apartment to, etc. It'll soon be a federal crime to refuse to rent to a pair of drag queens carrying whips and chains. In California, they're about to pass a law requiring employers to hire cross-dressers.

To satisfy the gay lobby, we came within one Supreme Court vote of completely losing our freedom of association (the Boy Scout case) and the pro-gay forces are determined to overturn that ruling just as they did the Hardwick ruling today.

So in return for a few perverts being able to freely engage in their sickness, we, as a people, see a decrease in freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association, property rights, monetary rights, and state's rights.

We'll soon be like Sweden, where even ministers can be jailed for up to four years for saying that homosexuality is wrong in the pulpit of their own church.

The gay movement is not libertarian, and neither is the pro-abortion movement, though both present themselves as such when manipulating the libertarian crowd.
537 posted on 06/26/2003 9:47:09 AM PDT by puroresu
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To: OWK
Why are you afraid to answer?

Keep on confirming your fifth degree foolishness.

538 posted on 06/26/2003 9:47:40 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: OWK
What are rights? What are their extent? Define them for me.

Two of the most important and appallingly unaddressed questions of our age.

Here's my best answer, (but I understand that it probably isn't perfect):
Rights are those things that any free adult individual can assert, that the government can guarantee (or direct compensation/retribution if violated) equally for all, and that does not trespass upon the Rights retained by others.

I could assert the Right to pick my nose, and it does not trespass upon the Rights of others, but the government can't guarantee that Right if I have no arms or fingers. Therefore, it is not a Right.

Animal Rights do not exist, because there is no way to monitor and guarantee them for all animals.

Group Rights and preferential treatments like AA are not Rights, because I cannot assert some of them due to the circumstances of my birth (gender, skin color, etc).

539 posted on 06/26/2003 9:48:42 AM PDT by Teacher317
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To: Liberal Classic
There are three kinds of flamewar threads that get this way. The War Between the States, The War on (some) Drugs, and Microsoft versus Linux.

No, four. Creation vs. evolution.

540 posted on 06/26/2003 9:49:28 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: VRWC_minion
ROFLMAO. Thanks for lightening up my bad mood today.

541 posted on 06/26/2003 9:49:41 AM PDT by zip
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To: Chancellor Palpatine
Hell, Ol' Pat is probably rolling around on the floor and frothing at the mouth about now.

Who cares what Pat Buchanan is doing anyway, lol? Anyone who is that vehemently anti-gay is usually a closet case anyway.

Trace

542 posted on 06/26/2003 9:49:51 AM PDT by Trace21230 (Ideal MOAB test site: Paris)
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To: Dead Corpse
"I can hardly credit that on a website called "Free Republic", that people would be having a serious discussion of what laws should govern bedroom conduct between consenting adults."

Why not? The government makes rulings on lots of behavior by 'consenting adults'. Some of a sexual nature, some of a substance abuse nature. I don't always like it, but lines must be drawn somewhere. Sooner or later someone will insist it is their fundamental right to engauge in behavior YOU find abhorant.


543 posted on 06/26/2003 9:50:06 AM PDT by bk1000
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To: The Red Zone
I stand corrected.
544 posted on 06/26/2003 9:50:10 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (Quemadmoeum gladis nemeinum occidit, occidentis telum est.)
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To: BlackjackHF
The SC just [created a right to child abuse or bestiality]. Maybe you haven’t been reading this thread?

You're the one not reading. Kennedy's opinion decisively shot down the notion that this hold sway over anything other than adult (human) consensual sex in private.

545 posted on 06/26/2003 9:50:13 AM PDT by tdadams
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To: Liberal Classic
You're forgetting about Evolution vs. Creation too.

Also, strangely enough, it seems that most Atkins Diet threads turn into flame wars.

546 posted on 06/26/2003 9:50:39 AM PDT by jmc813 (If you're interested in joining a FR list to discuss Big Brother 4 on CBS, please FReepmail me)
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To: BlackjackHF
No, it’s fact. If they are against the government legislating morality, they are against the government banning pedophilia. You cannot escape that.

Nonsense.

Libertarians oppose government prohibition and control of the actions of consenting adults, which do not initiate force or fraud.

In other words, they suggest that peaceful, private, and consenting interactions between adults are none of the state's concern.

Clearly children (who do not possess the emotional or intellectual capacity necessary to even comprehend much less express consent to sexuality) CANNOT express consent.

Therefore ANYONE engaging a child in sexuality is acting WITHOUT the consent of the child, whether they pretend otherwise, or not.

Those who engage children in sex, should be hung by the neck until dead.

OWK, Libertrarian.

547 posted on 06/26/2003 9:50:56 AM PDT by OWK
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To: Liberal Classic
Linux sucks - there are no decent apps.

And don't get me started on Apple.

Microsoft Uber Alles!!!!!!

548 posted on 06/26/2003 9:51:50 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (...road trip.....)
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To: Teacher317
Good answer. (and one which is quite close to my own)
549 posted on 06/26/2003 9:52:09 AM PDT by OWK
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To: sinkspur
Have two children, each on separate sports teams. That'll pretty much consume most of it.
550 posted on 06/26/2003 9:52:18 AM PDT by Treebeard
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