To: sweetliberty; Chancellor Palpatine
Why'd you call your boyfriend? Two can play at that game.
Because I figured he'd like a good chuckle. He seems to be amused by you.
Later, we're going to come over to your house and stand out on the sidewalk and sodomize each other while your kids watch.
'Tard. I am not homosexual. I like girls. A LOT.
What I don't like is Fundies.
No wait, you caught me. I needed back up to deal with mental midgets who use hatred and sexual repression as a raison d'etre. Your superior logic skills overwhelmed me, and I had to have reinforcements... lol.
To: DAnconia55; sweetliberty
I am glad to hear that you are not homosexual. At the risk of thread-clogging, I will post an article that takes care of all of the arguments you have raised over the past week in defense of the courts bench-legislation-
There are a lot of myths that I feel compelled to dispel about the supreme court's recent bench-legislation throwing out state's sodomy laws.
Myth One: Decisions between two consenting adults is their own business, and the government should stay out of people's bedrooms.
The biggest threat to our country is not people who want to legislate morality, its those who are destroying our culture with immorality.
I have a thought experiment that should highlight what is at stake.....
Take two nations that have equal resources in every other way. In one, the laws of Texas apply, go beyond it even, cohabitation is illegal and there is no such thing as 'no-fault' divorce when children are involved.
In the other nation, half the population engages in sodomy and prostitution. The other half is cohabiting, except for those engaging in polygamy. We are all consenting adults here, right?
Which nation will be the greater nation 100 years hence? Whose children will be most emotionally stable? Which people will be happier, more free, and more prosperous? There is no doubt in my mind that nation whose laws best conform to the actual moral order of the universe will be the nation whose citizens are most blessed.
What I just described with the two nations is just what the founders proposed with the several states. Let each make its own laws and see which one produces the better society. That is real 'diversity'. Secularists idea of diversity is to have Federal Storm Troopers going to public places around the country to tear down plaques of the Ten Commandments, but permitting us to replace them with pictures of two homosexuals engaging in anal sex! Welcome to 'diversity', Amerika style.
Myth Two : Sodomy Laws are a violation of the Due Process clause of the Constitution.
Sheesh, people don't know what 'due process' is, even judges.
I agree that due process must be upheld, but there was due process in this case. The judges are supposed to make sure the arrest and conviction procedures are the same for all groups, not decide which groups activities should be legal or illegal.
For example, if the law said that homosexuals could not testify in court, or that it was ok for vigilantes to beat them up, or that it was OK to use evidence obtained without a warrant if the charge is sodomy, then that law should be thrown out. They would not be getting due process. What should not be thrown out, is laws against specific behaviors. It is up to each state to decide what should be legal or illegal. Don't give me that hokem about legislating morality. All laws are legislated morality- that is a primary function of law.
Due process is using the same legal procedures for all groups, even groups of criminals. Plus, 17 years ago the Supreme Court decided that laws against sodomy were reasonable, now they decide they are not? This argument destroys all basis for a fixed standard of law, without which we shall descend into ever increasing chaos.
It is true that some actions of the federal government must be done in a reasonable manner (i.e. no "unreasonable search and seizure",) but that has no impact on what the state might be searching for. Could be crack, child porn, moonshine, Cuban cigars, whatever. In this case they had a bogus report of a crime when the police burst in, but they had reasonable cause to bust in. They are in error when they claim that every law passed by every state is subject to change as soon as a new court takes over and redefines the law as "arbitrary" and "unreasonable".
Original intent is important here. Not one of the founders who drafted the constitution, or those who passed the 14th amendment, intended to stop states from passing laws against sodomy (what the majority of their citizens knew to be sinful behaviors). Not one. I defy anyone- including the justices who ruled in this case. Show me from their writings that this is what they intended! Liberty is not license. Every state in the union had what some call 'sin laws' on the books regarding 'private' behavior, including sodomy laws, and none of the founders spoke out against them.
Myth Three: Ok, but it violated the Constitutions clause on "Equal Protection" under the law, because it was ok for a man and woman to something that it was illegal for a man to do to a man. That's not 'equal protection'.
(Rolling eyes here at liberal ignorance and stupidity) Words mean things. "Equal" means something. It means "of the same value". Two men having sex may be "equivalent" to a man and a woman having sex, but it is not "equal".
To be consistent with this thinking- consistent in leading our society down into a debauched moral cesspool, one would also have to claim that the equal protection clause was written to protect polygamy, incest, prostitution, adultery, and perhaps even bestiality and necrophilia if the owners sign the right papers first.....Such people should take a good look at how much destruction they are willing to unleash to justify their ungodliness. They should not be surprised that the responsible among us unite to rebuke them.
Equal protection means just that, protection. It has nothing to do with what activities the law condemns. It has everything to do with the government protecting the victims of those crimes by punishing those who victimized them. If crimes against blacks or gays were not investigated, or prosecuted, then they don't have equal protection and the feds could step in.
Again, there is no way on Earth the Founders / writers of the 14th amendment intended the equal protection clause, or the due process clause, to enable sodomy. Its absurd. Insisting that is what it means in no way changes the facts of original intent.
Myth Four: but it did violate their constitutional "right to privacy"!
That one is a myth alright. Their is no "right to privacy" in the Constitution. There is a guarantee against "unreasonable search and seizure". This is about the same thing as a "right to privacy", but there is a big difference. The first says that the government cannot investigate you unless their is reasonable suspicion that you have committed a crime. The second is a contrived fiction that says "some things, we elites don't allow the people to call crimes". Its used by the court as a "get out of jail free" card for crimes that they consider "private matters" (like butchering an unborn baby"). For these favored crimes, the very act of catching you committing a crime seems to be proof that the state was watching you too closely! Drug dealers would love such reasoning to be applied to their cases!
At the whim of the court, certain actions are deemed to be "private matters" subject only to the autonomous will of the individuals involved. Such acts are deemed to be outside the purview of law regardless of the corrosive effect they have on society, and regardless of the will of the people.
The conservative may think, "Good, the individual is above the state!". Wrong. The state is above the individual who cannot not live with other like-minded individuals to order their society the way they think best. The state's version of morality triumphs over yours in this model.
By the way, "Hate Crimes" legislation will still be enforced by the courts, punishing you for your presumed thoughts, intents, and motives. Somehow, these are not considered "private matters" by the court. Yet when a homosexual college professor with an IQ of 120 seduces a student with an IQ of 92 it is a "private" matter. When a woman goes to an abortion clinic and has an abortionist rip up her baby the transaction between the three of them is a "private matter". As these examples show, the "Right to Privacy" has nothing at all to do with privacy, and everything to do with a secular state making war on traditional morality.
So what about solutions?
A lot of people have suggested reasonable short term solutions, such as a Marriage Amendment, or Congress taking the ability to rule on certain matters out of the court's hands, or even impeachment of judges who are becoming more and more tyrannical and out of step with those they are supposed to serve.
In the long run though, the best answer is to put back in a counterweight to federal encroachment of the several States that was lost when we went to direct election of Senators. When the state legislators picked senators, you could be sure that those Senators only chose judges who would respect the right of states to make their own laws. Repeal of the amendment calling for direct election of senators is thus a possible solution. More likely though, is to get an amendment passed that reads thus...
Supreme court justices shall be picked by the President, with the advice and consent of a majority of the Governors of the Several States, such judges to serve during period of good behavior for terms of ten years, subject to renewal by the same process.
This would end a lot of abuses.
posted on 07/06/2003 11:38:02 AM PDT
What I don't like is Fundies.
Then stay away from conservative websites if you don't want to be offended by "Fundies."
This is not a right you have.
To: DAnconia55; sweetliberty
"Later, we're going to come over to your house and stand out on the sidewalk and sodomize each other while your kids watch....What I don't like is Fundies....
I needed back up to deal with mental midgets who use hatred and sexual repression as a raison d'etre."
Gerbil Alert for the pot calling the kettle black.
posted on 07/06/2003 7:11:40 PM PDT
(Ann Coulter for Attorney General... Joe Scarborough for VP...Tom Tancredo as Homeland Security Chief)
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson