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Bible Plaques Removed from Grand Canyon South Rim [ALCU Complaint- Been there for 30 Years]
Local Channel 6 News ^ | July 14, 2003 | staff report

Posted on 07/14/2003 9:42:55 AM PDT by ewing

The National Park Service removed plaques with Bible verses from the Grand Canyon after the American Civil Liberties Union claimed they violated separation of church and state.

But the park service decided that one of the main trails down into the canyon can still be called 'Bright Angel' and that a number of the canyons formations can be named after Hindu gods.

The plaques had been on display at the Grand Canoyns south rim for more than 30 years and inculded the following verses from the book of Psalms.

68:4 Sing to God, sing praises to his name; lift a song up to him who rids upon the clouds; his name is the Lord, exult before him!

66:4 All the earth worships thee; they sing praises to thee, sing praises to thy name.

104:24 O Lord how manifold are thy works! In wisdom hast thou made them all; the earth is full of thy creatures.

The group that donated the plaques said in a statement that it was 'stunned' because it believes that the plaques inspired many Grand Canyon visitors 'to admire and acknowledge the Creator of this majestic landscape.'


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: aclu; bible; bushdoctrine; galenorton; grandcanyon; interior; nps; plaques; southrim
A real shame, what a beautiful place..
1 posted on 07/14/2003 9:42:55 AM PDT by ewing
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2 posted on 07/14/2003 9:44:40 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: ewing
The ACLU is evil.
3 posted on 07/14/2003 9:45:54 AM PDT by Bikers4Bush
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To: Bikers4Bush
Was this court ordered or an executive decision by the National Parks Service?
4 posted on 07/14/2003 9:48:01 AM PDT by ewing
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To: ewing
"The National Park Service will make any rules they want preventing the establishment of a religion, and prohibiting the free-exercise thereof...whenever they want."
5 posted on 07/14/2003 9:49:13 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: ewing
Good thing I don't need a plaque to remind me of the wonders of God's creation.
6 posted on 07/14/2003 9:49:14 AM PDT by GSWarrior
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To: ewing
This is just so sad.
7 posted on 07/14/2003 9:50:37 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Bush/Cheney in '04 and Tommy Daschole out the door)
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To: ewing
And who do these folks think created the Grand Canyon?

(hint)...It wasn't some hindu god.

8 posted on 07/14/2003 9:57:35 AM PDT by Guenevere (...a Florida resident for almost 30 years!!)
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To: ewing
It would appear the NPS just caved in to the ACLU without any fight whatsoever. This is sad and frightening.
9 posted on 07/14/2003 9:57:56 AM PDT by upchuck (Contribute to "Republicans for Al Sharpton for President in 2004." Dial 1-800-SLAPTHADONKEY :)
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To: ewing
This ALCU bunch must be a really bad bunch of dudes. They make one complaint and get a Plaque removed; all the while The ACLU has been fighting for Thirty Years to get it done!
"EVIL I Guess" Both are trash and need haulled off and burried in a liberal cesspool!
10 posted on 07/14/2003 10:00:04 AM PDT by winker
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To: ewing
But the park service decided that one of the main trails down into the canyon can still be called 'Bright Angel' and that a number of the canyons formations can be named after Hindu gods.

But of course! We wouldn't want offend anyone of the Hindu religion with our "separation of church and state" nonsense.

11 posted on 07/14/2003 10:00:51 AM PDT by The Brush
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To: ewing
...we were there, for the first time, 2 years ago.

I don't remember seeing these verses even though they were there....

..but I was still dumbstruck at the majesty of God's creation anyway.

The ACLU will continue to get away with whatever they can get away with.

But God's handiwork will shine through....

And the ACLU will definitely know His opinion of their actions, someday.

12 posted on 07/14/2003 10:01:11 AM PDT by Guenevere (...a Florida resident for almost 30 years!!)
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To: ewing
No one can say they're anti-religious - at least they preserved the Hindu Gods, and Zoroaster, Wotan, and Osiris!
13 posted on 07/14/2003 10:01:42 AM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: ewing
Additional info: Bible
14 posted on 07/14/2003 10:02:54 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: ewing
I dont blame ACLU as much as the person who brought it to their attention. The only thing that person did was show me that he/she/it is an assh*le.
15 posted on 07/14/2003 10:04:36 AM PDT by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: ewing
American Civil Liberties Union claimed they violated separation of church and state.

Well now the park service is enforcing the soviet constitiuion. The ACLU and all the communists have been very clever about claims that things "violate the separation of church and state". These words appear only in the constitution of the former soviet union..Technically they are correct, it violates a constitution but not ours. And these park service people, judges and everyone else don't know enough about our own constitution to realize it, or they are behind the lie, forcing compliance with the soviet constitution because it fits their political agenda.
16 posted on 07/14/2003 10:08:09 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: cardinal4
Every atheist I ever met was a selfish A**hole. Seriously, they all have some emotional problem somewhere involving self importance. (ironically some of the most religious people were my college science professors)
17 posted on 07/14/2003 10:10:17 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: ewing
Does anyone who where the ACLU gets its money?
18 posted on 07/14/2003 10:12:32 AM PDT by AD from SpringBay
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To: LiteKeeper
Ping
19 posted on 07/14/2003 10:15:06 AM PDT by chance33_98 (http://home.frognet.net/~thowell/haunt/ ---->our ghosty page)
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To: AD from SpringBay
some from big law firms, primarily leftist lawyers. (how any lawyer can be a political leftist is beyond reason.) There is also a school of thought were lawyers fund the ACLU so that way they get work defending against the ACLU's stupidity.

Its like legal aid, they make work for lawyers prosecuting eviction actions which should have been a slam dunk.

It is freedom OF not FROM religion. The plaques were there from a private donation, any religion could obviously participate, there was no establishment. Perhaps the NPS need to have a few resignations of tree hugger wackos.
20 posted on 07/14/2003 10:16:46 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Guenevere
The ACLU probably was fighting to keep the Hindu names for diversitys sake..
21 posted on 07/14/2003 10:17:23 AM PDT by ewing
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To: ewing
If you look at the history of the ACLU's First Amendment "estblishment clause" litigation, it quickly becomes apparent that what the ACLU really objects to is anything to do with Christianity. If it's Satanic or involves bizarre sexual behavior, they're all for it, especially if some serial killer in prison wants to practice it.
So...why DO the heathen rage???
22 posted on 07/14/2003 10:18:28 AM PDT by Spok
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To: ewing
I think the National Parks Service is on the same page as the ACLU on this one. Hasn't Parks been overrun with berret-wearing lefties over the past couple of decades?

The Hindu-gods-thing is probably their own idea.
23 posted on 07/14/2003 10:19:44 AM PDT by Empire_of_Liberty
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To: ewing
Our country's institutions are being destroyed, and our history is being blurred and torn up. I won't be surprised in 20 years, that all mentions of God in the Declaration of Independence will be removed, and history books will have God no where to be found in their American History section.
24 posted on 07/14/2003 10:20:47 AM PDT by yonif
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To: ewing
Such a hideous turn of events.

Such a robbery of our heritage.

Worked there one summer during my BA program at NAU.

Worked for Emery C Kolb at the head of Bright Angel Trail.

Great experience.

I used to marvel . . .

a station wagon would pull up from upper Main or lower Florida or some such distant place . . .

Mom and dad would pile out and head for the bar. The kids would head for the curios. The dog would go out and look at the Canyon.

Then there were the various park staff who had fun convincing the various visitors--especially little old harmless ladies--that the lights at night half way down the canyon were submarines docking at a special dock down there.

And, of course, the high falootin eastern socialite types who would ask if there was a dining car on the mule train to the bottom.

And the occasional mule wrangler who'd fiestily threaten to get a mule to dump an obstreperous and extra mouthy dame or 'gent' over the side if they didn't shape up. But those days are probably over. Management didn't appreciate such crowd control even just threat methods.

Very few people have ever been lost on the mule train in any way, shape or form. But reservations must be made at least a year in advance. The waiting list for cancellations is extensive.

Anyway--loved the place.

A very spiritual place. Hated the Hindu god names.

And I hated the government badgering of Mr Kolb until he sold out.

If you go--PLEASE SPEND AT LEAST 24 HOURS THERE. And see the Canyon in early morning and late evening light. And pray for rain. It's also great in winter.

Then there are people predicting it will be undersea before our era is out.

I believe Hoover dam will be breached. I hope Glen Canyon isn't. Seepage through the porous sandstone is bad enough.

enough rambling.
25 posted on 07/14/2003 10:29:47 AM PDT by Quix (LIVE THREAD NOW STARTED. UFO special Tues eve & share opinions)
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To: cardinal4
I dont blame ACLU as much as the person who brought it to their attention. The only thing that person did was show me that he/she/it is an assh*le.

Maybe a money grubber too. ACLU is making a fortune from these lawsuits. Last week, just two states paid the ACLU nearly a million bucks in legal fees after the states lost two cases regarding abortion and the free exercise of religion.

The ACLU (and AJCongress, PFAW, ADL, NCJW etc) troll the nation 24/7 looking for these lawsuits. They have numbers you can call to rat out anyone you see praying, setting up a religious display, pushing "Choose Life" license plates or expressing their faith in any way you believe might be actionable.

26 posted on 07/14/2003 10:29:51 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: upchuck
It would appear the NPS just caved in to the ACLU without any fight whatsoever. This is sad and frightening.

Time to get loud!


There's just TWO roads leading into the Park!
27 posted on 07/14/2003 10:45:38 AM PDT by Elsie (You can't HANDLE the truth!)
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To: yonif
Psalms 33:12
 Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD, the people he chose for his inheritance.
 
Job 5:17
 "Blessed is the man whom God corrects; so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty.
 
Psalms 1:1
Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked or stand in the way of sinners or sit in the seat of mockers.
 
Psalms 32:2
 Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit.
 
Psalms 34:8
 Taste and see that the LORD is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.
 
Psalms 40:4
 Blessed is the man who makes the LORD his trust, who does not look to the proud, to those who turn aside to false gods.
 
Psalms 84:12
 O LORD Almighty, blessed is the man who trusts in you.
 
Psalms 94:12-13
 12.  Blessed is the man you discipline, O LORD, the man you teach from your law;
 13.  you grant him relief from days of trouble, till a pit is dug for the wicked.
 
Psalms 112:1
 Praise  the LORD. Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, who finds great delight in his commands.
 
Proverbs 3:13-14
 13.  Blessed is the man who finds wisdom, the man who gains understanding,
 14.  for she is more profitable than silver and yields better returns than gold.
 
Proverbs 8:34
 Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway.
 
Proverbs 28:14
 Blessed is the man who always fears the LORD, but he who hardens his heart falls into trouble.
 
Isaiah 56:2
 Blessed is the man who does this, the man who holds it fast, who keeps the Sabbath without desecrating it, and keeps his hand from doing any evil."
 
Jeremiah 17:7
 "But blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, whose confidence is in him.
 
Matthew 11:6
 Blessed is the man who does not fall away on account of me."
 
Luke 14:15
 When one of those at the table with him heard this, he said to Jesus, "Blessed is the man who will eat at the feast in the kingdom of God."
 
John 12:13
 They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, "Hosanna! " "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!" "Blessed is the King of Israel!"
 
Romans 4:7-8
 7.  "Blessed are they whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered.
 8.  Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."
 
Romans 14:22
 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves.
 
James 1:12
 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
 
Revelation 1:3
 Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

28 posted on 07/14/2003 11:07:54 AM PDT by Elsie (You can't HANDLE the truth!)
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To: DPB101
I dont blame ACLU as much as the person who brought it to their attention.

Folks, it's YOUR park and YOUR Government.

DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!!!


29 posted on 07/14/2003 11:10:14 AM PDT by Elsie (You can't HANDLE the truth!)
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To: Bikers4Bush
ACLU is the dark side of civil libretarians.
30 posted on 07/14/2003 11:12:16 AM PDT by kjam22
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To: ewing
>> The National Park Service removed plaques with Bible verses from the Grand Canyon after the American Civil Liberties Union claimed they violated separation of church and state. <<

ACLU claimed...

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


I don't see anything about the NPS in Amendment I above.

The ACLU is an EVIL organization bent on the destruction of the USA as we know it.
31 posted on 07/14/2003 11:21:00 AM PDT by appalachian_dweller (Character is doing the right thing when nobody is looking. JC Watts)
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To: ewing
A real shame, what a beautiful place.

So bring your own Bible next time, and leave a copy for others to read if they so desire.

32 posted on 07/14/2003 11:27:07 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: ewing
Dennis Miller says he no longer supports the ACLU because they will sue to get a Natavity scene removed and then sue to support the pervert who wants to fu*k the sheep.
33 posted on 07/14/2003 11:37:33 AM PDT by ibbryn (this tag intentionally left blank)
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To: Labyrinthos
My quarrel is with the executive orders used by National Pakrs to take the plaques off..do they have that authority?
34 posted on 07/14/2003 12:15:09 PM PDT by ewing
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To: ewing
My family just returned from a trip to the Grand Canyon in June. Providentially, my husband snapped a picture of the plaque at Desert View. I was heartsick to hear that they had been removed. If want to voice your concerns over the situation you may call the National Park Public Affairs office at (928) 638-7779. When I called I got the run around about separation of church and state. Where is that wording in our constitution?? She said it was a decision made by the National Park Service. Please let THEM know how you feel. When I called she said she hadn't recieved any other calls.
35 posted on 07/14/2003 2:27:58 PM PDT by ReaganCowboy (Number you can call...)
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To: ewing; JohnHuang2; MadIvan; TonyInOhio; MeeknMing; itreei; jd792; Molly Pitcher; muggs; ...
ACLU=Anti Christ Local Union
36 posted on 07/14/2003 2:30:42 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK
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To: ewing
God formed the Grand Canyon as a gift to Americans
The ACLU ...the American Commie Lawyers Union....
Cows the U.S. Govt into doing its bidding...
Never mind asking what the American Citizens might think or want or demand
Whose Govt is it again...of the people ..by the people...for the people...
Or for the Elite and their minions in the ACLU
37 posted on 07/14/2003 6:24:08 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: ReaganCowboy
That so called separtion of Church & State is the atheist scam child of the ACLU
The so called wall of separation was meant to keep a state church (ala the Church of England) from being established and outlawing all the other Chrisitan denominations...

Communism is a religon

Atheism is also a religon -as it takes more faith to not believe in God against the evidence -
such as creation itself..

Athesim in the end can neither prove nor disprove the existance of God -so their negative assumption is not supported by evidence and if they declare God to be non existent they can only profess this declaration in faith....and not substantiation...

The state has (imo)...found in favor of the Atheist religon in removing those bible passages (on the objection of the ACLU and their so called SOC&S...and the state is therefore not neutral in its decison..but biased towards the atheist faith...something the ACLU should be against...if true to its own agenda...imo

The state is establishing a religon...the religon of anti-Christ-atheism
38 posted on 07/14/2003 6:36:48 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: The Brush
Where the hell is Bush in this? Isn't he the president? Isn't the Park service under the Executive Branch?
39 posted on 07/14/2003 6:59:31 PM PDT by mathurine
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To: joesnuffy
environmentalism is a religion. (fed judge said so.)

This is hindering free exercise. The is no evidence that this was limited to one religion. Were other religions precluded from posting their own brass paques? Hindu's were represented, what would and atheist plaque say? "Whatever"

Perhaps teh ACLU would say, "Grand Canyon, constructed by communist workers.".
40 posted on 07/14/2003 7:08:28 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (Vote!)
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To: Guenevere
...unless those wily Hindus have come up with a native god of the Colorado River. They do have millions of gods to go around, after all.
41 posted on 07/14/2003 8:50:12 PM PDT by King Prout (people hear and do not listen, see and do not observe, speak without thought, post and not edit)
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To: ewing
"Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private schools, supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and the state forever separated." -- Ulysses S. Grant
42 posted on 07/14/2003 9:31:16 PM PDT by the_devils_advocate_666
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To: the_devils_advocate_666; Jeff Head; MHGinTN
Great quote by our most infamously corrupt drunken president.

He was great at mowing down soldiers, but I would hesitate to use him as a guide to moral matters.

43 posted on 07/15/2003 9:54:58 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: King Prout
Dennis Prager is going on at great length about this, he is considering organizing a major "freep" at the Grand Canyon to spotlight this secular totalitarianism.
44 posted on 07/15/2003 9:56:24 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: ReaganCowboy; ATOMIC_PUNK; joesnuffy; Jeff Head
Go to DennisPrager.com, he is going to organize a mass civil disobedience there and defy the Park Service to bring in the paddy wagons and remove hundreds of praying Americans.
45 posted on 07/15/2003 9:58:46 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: yonif
Perhaps, but only if the forces of evil win a bloody civil war first.

I wish them no luck.

46 posted on 07/15/2003 10:00:02 AM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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To: joesnuffy
You raise a good point, the federal government and liberalized federal judiciary has established a state religion, if you believe--as I do, absolutely--that secualr humanism is a religion. The tenets of secular humanism are the underlying principles of the current actions by the ACLU and the societal engineering rulings by the various federal courts who affirm the ACLU assaults on our culture and society that we inherited. If allowed to continue, the American society/culture will be nothing like what the founders passed to us for our preservation. [It's why I was very disappointed when Bob Barr took a job with the corrosive destructive bastards!]
47 posted on 07/15/2003 10:12:22 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: Travis McGee
Travis, there will be no bloody civil war as this nation mutates to a socialist oligarchy. There may be a few minor skirmishes (Waco and Ruby Ridge come to mind as examples) which will be press characterized as crazy fanatics resisting the law of the land, but the populace is too lost in 'bread and circuses' to actually understand or care that their sovereignty over this nation is being consumed by the glutton of federalism.

'Free elections' occurring regularly have the somnambulent populace believeing they are still in control ... voting 'freely' as their wallets are garnished, their properties are assessed and taxed to the max the traffic will bear, and their unborn children are redefined as commodities to be disposed of or exploited as 'others' see fit. A nation that condones and in fact encourages (because the tax dollars funded it!) the wholesale slaughter of its most vulnerable residents has already become something different from a free Republic that names certain unalienable rights from the Creator, such as LIFE, then liberty, then the pursuit of happiness.

The populace doesn't even realize that their rights are now doled out by the federal judiciary ... but the democrat criminal enterprise is acutely aware of the all powerful federal judiciary, that's why the democrats have set the litmus tests which judeg nominations must meet in order to be approved to sit the oligarchical benches. And the feckless pubbies allow it to continue, regardless of how the voters have spoken ... because the voting is a sham anyway!

48 posted on 07/15/2003 10:24:15 AM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote life support for others.)
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To: ewing
Gee, I wonder if the ACLU would be similarly upset if rather than Biblical verses, the Park displayed Zen (Buddhist) koans, or verses from Hinduism's Bhagavad Gita?
49 posted on 07/15/2003 10:29:20 AM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: ReaganCowboy
And, next time any of us Freepers visit the Grand Canyon, make sure we get good and mad and offended at the Hindu god names and make a big stink about separation of church and state, etc. etc. If I had the money, I'd hire a lawyer to file suit about it.

What's good for the goose, is good for the gander.

50 posted on 07/15/2003 7:05:39 PM PDT by 3catsanadog (When anything goes, everything will.)
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