Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

THAT URANIUM STORY
NRO ^ | 7/14/2003 | David Frum

Posted on 07/14/2003 8:59:22 PM PDT by Utah Girl

On the ground floor of the White House is the Map Room, so-called because it was here that Franklin Roosevelt used to get his briefings on the progress of World War II. Over the mantel is the last map FDR saw before his death. It shows American, British, and Soviet troops racing toward Berlin. It also shows a frightening concentration of German forces in the Nazis’ last redoubt, the mountains of Bavaria.

We now know of course that this last redoubt did not exist. American intelligence had been deceived. And it’s possible that policymakers also deceived themselves. Roosevelt, for reasons of his own, wanted to let the Russians have the honor – and suffer the losses – of an assault on Berlin. The belief in the last redoubt was a very useful belief: It justified FDR’s wish to avoid joining the battle for Berlin.

Intelligence is a very uncertain business. And there’s no doubt that consumers of intelligence tend to be quicker to accept uncertain information that confirms their prejudices than uncertain information that calls those prejudices into question. Since consumers of intelligence are usually prejudiced in favor of doing little, most of the time they prefer intelligence that errs on the side of minimizing dangers.

9/11 changed the way American officials looked at the world. So when they got reports that Iraq was seeking to buy uranium in Niger, you can understand why they took the information seriously. That information has since turned out to be false – and its falsity has generated a major political controversy, as bitter-end opponents of this president and the war on terror try to exploit the administration’s error.

The controversy turns on the fact that some in the CIA doubted the story from the start. Their warnings were apparently disregarded, that is assuming that they were adequately communicated in the first place. Why? One reason may be that the CIA’s warnings on Iraq matters had lost some of their credibility in the 1990s. The agency was regarded by many in the Bush administration as reflexively and implacably hostile to any activist policy in Iraq. Those skeptics had come to believe that the agency was slanting its information on Iraq in order to maneuver the administration into supporting the agency’s own soft-line policies.

So when the Bush administration got skeptical news on the Niger uranium matter, it would not be surprising if mid-level policymakers mentally filed it under the heading “more of the same from the CIA,” filed it, and discounted it. The tendency was redoubled by the origin of the Niger-debunking report: Joseph C. Wilson. For more about him, see Clifford May's important post in last week's NRO. The result was the strange formulation in the State of the Union speech, in which the Niger story was cited – but attributed to British intelligence.

The story is an embarrassment for all concerned. But it no more undercuts the case for the Iraq war than FDR’s mistake in 1945 retroactively discredited the case for World War II. The United States did not overthrow Saddam Hussein because he was buying uranium in Niger. It overthrow him because he was a threat to the United States, to his neighbors, to his own people, and to the peace of a crucial region of the globe. All of that is just as true as it was on the day the President delivered his speech containing the errant 16 words – and the war is just as right and justified today as it was then.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: britsstandbystory; cia; davidfrum; frostedyellowcake; intelligence; josephwilson; mycousinknowsclay; niger; opus; sotu; uranium; wmd
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 551-600601-650651-700 ... 751-790 next last
To: Timesink
It's just that in the entire two-and-a-half-year history of the Bush Administration thus far, this is the FIRST ginned-up pseudoscandal to come along that both: a) has had legs, and b) is complex enough to allow the leftists and haters to play semantic games and argue basically anything they want from any direction.

People said Enron had legs as well. All we heard and read in the liberal media and from Dems was "Bush-Enron, Bush-Enron, Bush-Enron...etc".

That issue even went all the way to hearings.

But it ultimately died because nothing was there.

I say this will die the same death. Of course the real Bush haters will never let go of any of these issues, but that's to be expected.

601 posted on 07/15/2003 3:10:41 PM PDT by Jorge
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 484 | View Replies]

To: Area51
Since you are posting across threads......you should have posted Jim's current stance.

A partial post from HERE

Thus I am unwilling to allow Free Republic to be used to damage Bush or ANY of the Republicans chances, especially with fabricated leftist propaganda. For this, I am labeled a traitor to the conservative cause. So be it. Come hell or high water I'm sticking to my guns on this one. The Democrats are NOT going to be allowed to retake control of our government any time soon and that's a fact!

471 posted on 07/09/2003 9:19 PM PDT by jimrobinson

To: tpaine


You think todays little teapot tempest is about Bush or the GOP?
-- Get real. Its about a neo-coven at FR trying to control what they view to be the agenda here.

Feel free to correct me, but I hope this is still FR's agenda:

"Free Republic is a place for people to discuss our common goals regarding the restoration of our constitutionally limited republican form of government. If people have other agendas for FR, I really wish they would take them elsewhere."

Thanks, Jim
226 posted on 2/7/02 4:01 PM Pacific by Jim Robinson


Just wanted to make sure you had the CURRENT....statement by JR...and were not relying entirely on your post from 2002. I don't see his latest post as anything other than a refinement of the 2002 statement he posted.

1,157 posted on 07/15/2003 3:03 PM PDT by justshe

602 posted on 07/15/2003 3:26:47 PM PDT by justshe (Eliminate Freepathons! Become a monthly donor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 590 | View Replies]

To: Area51
Don't you people ever tire of that re-tread of a 3 year old statement??

Everytime someone wishes to bash the owner of this site, that is the best you all can do.

I wish I had a dollar for everytime you guys post that on TOS's
603 posted on 07/15/2003 3:29:34 PM PDT by Neets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 589 | View Replies]

To: Refinersfire
"Or more likely it is, you perfer a slow and painful death by a thousand needles ..."

You refuse to accept that what I say is what I mean, and continue to insist on misrepresenting me. Once again you chose to run my words through your brain and by the time they came back out again, you have them "more likely" meaning something else.

I hate to break it to you, but you are NOT a person who will have credibility with intellectually honest critical thinkers. And the others don't matter.

604 posted on 07/15/2003 3:42:54 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Marxist DemocRATS, Nader-Greens, and Religious KOOKS = a clear and present danger to our Freedoms.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 585 | View Replies]

To: Neets
Hi, Neets. Interesting that the seminar callers are appearing on Hannity's show, regardless of their true identity.

I still maintain that this is a coordinated effort, and that while there are those who are sincerely questioning one aspect or another of Bush's policies, there seem to be an awful lot who are determined to move some people into the third party column.

I just don't trust this "I supported Bush, but he moved left and so now I am going to a third party, even though it means electing a democrat."

I still say that there are a fair number of democrats here spouting that stuff, especially the newer registrants who don't have a posting record to draw upon.

605 posted on 07/15/2003 3:43:45 PM PDT by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 603 | View Replies]

To: Neets
I wish I had a dollar for everytime you guys post that on TOS's

If we had a dollar for every single time they used that quote, we could use it to bribe Jim to let us run this web site!

BTW, did you notice how he thought he trapped me into getting him to post that? pathetic

606 posted on 07/15/2003 3:46:05 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 603 | View Replies]

To: justshe
Thanks for that post Ma'am.
607 posted on 07/15/2003 3:51:23 PM PDT by Neets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 602 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
I just found it all too odd that this callers' comment's echoed much of what we have been hearing here from those determined individual.

Much I cringe while listening to Sean, I wish our DR's appt was later so I could have finished listening to this particular caller.
608 posted on 07/15/2003 3:52:58 PM PDT by Neets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 605 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
What time is the secret vote for latest banning nominations???
609 posted on 07/15/2003 3:53:32 PM PDT by Neets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 606 | View Replies]

To: Neets
You are most welcome. Usually becomes a thread stopper when I post it.....LOL.
610 posted on 07/15/2003 4:06:57 PM PDT by justshe (Eliminate Freepathons! Become a monthly donor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 607 | View Replies]

To: Neets
Secret vote? SECRET VOTE?????? I thought there was a discussion period prior to voting and all votes would be just a simple up or down. I don't know if I want the votes to BE secret....at least amongst 'us'.

Ok...when did these rules get changed and WHY didn't I get the notice??????
611 posted on 07/15/2003 4:11:14 PM PDT by justshe (Eliminate Freepathons! Become a monthly donor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 609 | View Replies]

To: Joe Driscoll
Please, no "road maps to peace"...this is the best damn political catfight I've seen on FR in ages. Information actually comes out of these heated exchanges.
612 posted on 07/15/2003 4:13:08 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (Fedgov is the problem, not the solution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 415 | View Replies]

To: Miss Marple
You know they won't own "I supported Bush, but he moved left and so now I am going to a third party, even though it means electing a democrat." Perot didn't happen. Or....it was the fault of the candidate....NOT the 3rd party candidate.
613 posted on 07/15/2003 4:13:36 PM PDT by justshe (Eliminate Freepathons! Become a monthly donor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 605 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
I see you weren't honest enough to ping Jim Robinson to that post, were you.

Tells me all I need to know about you.

You really don't understand a lot of what is going on around here do you?

I know enough to ping the people I'm trying to trash.


594 posted on 07/15/2003 2:50 PM PDT by Howlin





Kinda hard to trash someone with their own posts? Your tactics sound alot like Lanny Davis's back in the Impeachment debate while defending the Clintler gang.

Yeah, right. Howlin the woman of integrety. So how many folks have been banned on threads you have been baiting on? How many did you have direct discussions with on those threads and how many did you brag about after they were banned? Come on, Miss Honor, tell the truth. You got to have a number. I can't believe someone as obtuse doesn't keep score.

Your record of you and your guild jumping threads that end up getting people banned says otherwise. I hope some day someone caculates how many thousands of dollars your tactics of attacks have cost this website or donations to other causes linked to it. The facts are on the front page.

I don't need to sneak. I posted what I posted. I understand completely what is happening around here. You and others have decided that there will be no disention in the ranks. You have come up with the mantra that if you critisize Dubya you must be a DU member, Democrat or disruptor planted here years ago. When you find a thead with someone critical of the Ole Mighty King Dubya, you ping your guild and you'll come running like cows to a milking. Take one political thread from yesterday (which In wasn't even posting to) or today that have over 400 posts on it and tell me that isn't happening?

Funny thing about your rant, Most of your gaggle of old goats were no where around when the fight was actually taken up by us so called plants. Our words, energy, showing up in person and OUR money put ads in the Washington Newpaper and FORCED the Republicans to take action against a Felon in the Whitehouse.

So you take your condesending attitude, know it all, my way or the highway RINO support and label tossing and stuff it. You are the one that hasn't a clue. And if your original thoughts were gold you couldn't cash in enough to buy one.

You of all people really ought to not be questioning ANYONE'S motives here. But just like a trashy dog, once you got the taste of blood you just can't stop.

Have a good day dearie.

614 posted on 07/15/2003 4:17:48 PM PDT by Area51
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 594 | View Replies]

To: A Navy Vet
"Please, no "road maps to peace"...this is the best damn political catfight I've seen on FR in ages. Information actually comes out of these heated exchanges."

I've been gone this afternoon(Calif) and just caught up on the thread. You have got this right LOL

615 posted on 07/15/2003 4:20:59 PM PDT by woodyinscc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 612 | View Replies]

To: Area51
What I have decided is that you are slam nuts.

Ask Jim Robinson, if you have the nerve, how many people I, or for that matter MY FRIENDS, have had banned. That's a story you people LOVE to tell youselves because you can't face the truth -- that you make yourselves unwelcome in civil company.

You have major issues with women and/or people who don't agree with you, so you must destroy them in order to exist.

And since you seem to have a COMPREHENSION PROBLEM, i.e., this remark:

Your record of you and your guild jumping threads that end up getting people banned says otherwise.

I haven't posted on the Guild thread in two and a half years. So much for YOUR knowledge.

You all have given me/us WAY more power (or whatever the hell you think it is that I have) than I actually have; and in doing so, you insult the owner of this forum. If you believe that Jim Robinson can be bought off for $364 a year, you'd dumber than you look and you insult HIS integrity. But, of course, isn't that what you live to do?

And just so you'll know, I've been here a LOT longer than you have.

616 posted on 07/15/2003 4:26:42 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 614 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
Next time just type BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

And the archieves don't lie.

617 posted on 07/15/2003 4:40:26 PM PDT by Area51
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 616 | View Replies]

To: Area51
I knew you didn't have the nerve to ask him. You might see something in writing that would blow your theory right out of the water.

Go bloviate at LP; they've already got your rant up, ready to congratulate you, big man!
618 posted on 07/15/2003 4:43:19 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 617 | View Replies]

To: Area51
Bravo!!

Standing ovation.

619 posted on 07/15/2003 4:45:02 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 614 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
He's got your number, as do most who watch the goings on here.

You're the bait and snitch queen.

620 posted on 07/15/2003 4:45:58 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 618 | View Replies]

To: OWK
Well, who on here is surprised that you'd give a load of crap a standing O?
621 posted on 07/15/2003 4:46:22 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 619 | View Replies]

To: OWK
Why don't YOU ask Jim how many people I've personally had banned, big boy?
622 posted on 07/15/2003 4:46:53 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 620 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
You have major issues with women and/or people who don't agree with you, so you must destroy them in order to exist.

Too funny for words.

623 posted on 07/15/2003 4:47:03 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 616 | View Replies]

Comment #624 Removed by Moderator

To: Howlin
Why don't YOU ask Jim how many people I've personally had banned, big boy?

Nobody suggested you banned anybody... BIG-girl.

625 posted on 07/15/2003 4:47:45 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 622 | View Replies]

To: OWK
You're suggested I'm a direct cause of them getting banned; I'm saying why don't you put your money where your mouth is and ask Jim if that is true.


Unless, of course, you're scared of the answer, because I'm sure not.
626 posted on 07/15/2003 4:49:13 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 625 | View Replies]

To: Area51
Qualifier: I'm not a Bot and don't agree with JR entirely on the Repub thing, we even had words about it. I've criticized President Bush and I'm still standing.

That said, why is it so hard to realize that human beings change their minds/positions? I may myself...I'm looking at the Consitution Party.

627 posted on 07/15/2003 4:50:27 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (Fedgov is the problem, not the solution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 617 | View Replies]

To: Area51
You made an accusation; are you afraid to find out the truth?
628 posted on 07/15/2003 4:50:48 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 624 | View Replies]

To: Area51; OWK
You continue to try to bait others into attacking Jim. This is EXACTLY my point. Jim is a big boy, he can take care of himself

If you go back to the beggining of the thread you would notice it was the "one who knows" who started the ad hominems.

But what the hey were at reply #630 and change and that is all in your short attention span past.

629 posted on 07/15/2003 4:51:25 PM PDT by Dane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 624 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
You're suggested I'm a direct cause of them getting banned;

I'm suggesting that you do what you've always done.

You attempt to bait people into launching into tirades against you, or against others, and then you run off and tattle.

And that you do so with intent.

It's pretty obvious.

630 posted on 07/15/2003 4:51:33 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 626 | View Replies]

To: A Navy Vet
Wassup Rodger...
631 posted on 07/15/2003 4:52:24 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 627 | View Replies]

To: OWK
BS; I do NOT tattle; I'm perfectly capable of taking care of myself. I hardly ever even hit the abuse button unless somebody makes a bodily threat.........next?
632 posted on 07/15/2003 4:54:09 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 630 | View Replies]

To: Area51
The answer is very simple. People who disagree with Howlin, or with me, or with any of the other "hags" as you call it, cannot stand the disagreement.

Sometimes they get angrier and angrier, reorting to namecalling. Sometimes they use profanity. This usually results in someone reporting the poster and sometimes that person gets suspended and occasionally banned.

Because the abuse report is a private one, no one knows who reported the abuse. Yes it could have been one of us, although I personally have not done so. It also could be one of hundreds of people who read threads without posting.

Look at your posts right now. You cannot stand to be disagreed with, you are becoming more and more agitated, you have resorted to ugly name-calling and profanity. I am not reporting you, but I am offering you some advice.

To the impartial observer, I am pretty sure you and a couple others on this thread look to be a bit disturbed. Perhaps you might think about that before you post your next response.

633 posted on 07/15/2003 4:56:16 PM PDT by Miss Marple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 624 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
BS; I do NOT tattle

BWAAAHAHAHAHahhahah!!

You and the rest of the coffee clatch sit around and pour salt into wounds at every opportunity.

You can't help yourself.

You think you're important.

634 posted on 07/15/2003 4:56:16 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 632 | View Replies]

To: OWK
Evidently you think I'm more important that I do.
635 posted on 07/15/2003 4:56:55 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 634 | View Replies]

To: Howlin; OWK
JMO, but I would say the OWK's of the FR world do try and like to revel in their "victim status".
636 posted on 07/15/2003 4:56:55 PM PDT by Dane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 632 | View Replies]

To: Dane
I notice nobody's asking Jim.
637 posted on 07/15/2003 4:58:13 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 636 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
Evidently you think I'm more important that I do.

self-important perhaps.

638 posted on 07/15/2003 4:59:38 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 635 | View Replies]

To: OWK
Just thought I'd jump into the fray...for old times sake.
Bummer is, I can't figure out of late if I'm a conservative pragmatist or a conservative idealist or some weird spawn of both. The horror...
639 posted on 07/15/2003 5:00:03 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (Fedgov is the problem, not the solution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 631 | View Replies]

To: Dane; OWK
I would say the OWK's of the FR world do try and like to revel in their "victim status".

OWK is a proud atheist. I wouldn't give him the time it takes to read his posts because he is disqualified before he ever begins to type.

640 posted on 07/15/2003 5:00:12 PM PDT by Southflanknorthpawsis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 636 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
I notice nobody's asking Jim.

I notice that you seem rather fond of that avenue.

641 posted on 07/15/2003 5:00:14 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 637 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
Evidently you think I'm more important that I do.

If it's any comfort, I think you're far less important than you think you are.

642 posted on 07/15/2003 5:00:23 PM PDT by Pahuanui (when A Foolish Man Hears The tao, He Laughs Out Loud.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 635 | View Replies]

To: OWK
It's your accusation and stated fact; be my guest. I know what the answer will be.
643 posted on 07/15/2003 5:00:47 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 641 | View Replies]

To: Southflanknorthpawsis
OWK is a proud atheist.

An atheist?

Burn him at the stake I say....

644 posted on 07/15/2003 5:01:06 PM PDT by OWK
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 640 | View Replies]

To: Pahuanui
Well, since I don't think I'm important at all, then that must be less than zero.
645 posted on 07/15/2003 5:01:32 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 642 | View Replies]

To: Southflanknorthpawsis
Does that include deists?
646 posted on 07/15/2003 5:02:17 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (Fedgov is the problem, not the solution)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 640 | View Replies]

To: OWK
self-important perhaps.

I'm not the one who picked "One Who Knows" as a screenname.

647 posted on 07/15/2003 5:02:37 PM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 638 | View Replies]

To: Howlin
Well, since I don't think I'm important at all, then that must be less than zero.

Now you're getting it.

648 posted on 07/15/2003 5:02:57 PM PDT by Pahuanui (when A Foolish Man Hears The tao, He Laughs Out Loud.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 645 | View Replies]

To: A Navy Vet
That said, why is it so hard to realize that human beings change their minds/positions? I may myself...I'm looking at the Consitution Party.


627 posted on 07/15/2003 4:50 PM PDT by A Navy Vet (Fedgov is the problem, not the solution)




I don't. But I detest the guilds tactics of divide and conquere. Smear and label, bait and ban.

649 posted on 07/15/2003 5:02:58 PM PDT by Area51
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 627 | View Replies]

To: OWK
Burn him at the stake I say...

Nah, just let everybody see your pitiful wallowing in victimhood I say.

650 posted on 07/15/2003 5:03:30 PM PDT by Dane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 644 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-50 ... 551-600601-650651-700 ... 751-790 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson