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Scientists hunt for evidence of Noah's flood in Black Sea
Associated Press ^ | 7/16/2003

Posted on 07/17/2003 7:27:18 AM PDT by presidio9

Edited on 04/13/2004 1:40:54 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

In 1994, archaeologist Fredrik Hiebert rode around northern Turkey in a dirty white Toyota van looking for evidence of ancient civilizations around the Black Sea. Every time he and his team would ask locals for the whereabouts of centuries-old ruins, they'd get the same response. "Everyone kept pointing us to the sea," Hiebert recalled.


(Excerpt) Read more at usatoday.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: aliaksu; ancienthistory; blacksea; blackseaflood; bushwood; catastrophism; danuberiver; freezegopher; godsgravesglyphs; gopherwood; grandcanyon; greatflood; liviugiosan; lostcity; noah; noahsark; noahsflood; petkodimitrov; richardhiscott; robertballard
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1 posted on 07/17/2003 7:27:19 AM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9
SPOTREP
2 posted on 07/17/2003 7:41:34 AM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: All

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3 posted on 07/17/2003 7:42:28 AM PDT by Support Free Republic (Your support keeps Free Republic going strong!)
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To: presidio9
"Also, some scholars note that the Bible's version has Noah living in a desert in Mesopotamia, while the pre-flood coastline of Turkey was a lush, forested area."

And he built a boat big enough for all of the creatures of the land out of what... cacti?

4 posted on 07/17/2003 7:42:46 AM PDT by pgyanke (...and to the north of Seoul, you can find ample parking...)
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To: presidio9
bookmark.. Thanks for posting this.
5 posted on 07/17/2003 7:43:33 AM PDT by LisaAnne
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To: pgyanke
And he built a boat big enough for all of the creatures of the land out of what... cacti?

Mesopotamia did not become a desert until Saddam drained the marshes.

6 posted on 07/17/2003 7:44:52 AM PDT by presidio9 (RUN AL, RUN!!!)
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To: pgyanke
Gopherwood. But today, nobody knows what that is.
7 posted on 07/17/2003 7:46:39 AM PDT by I still care
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To: presidio9
Some scholars have said the engulfing could be the Biblical flood of Noah. Others say the theory lacks any scientific premise and complain it could overshadow the more noteworthy experiments that will take place.

"Christianity, if false, is of no importance and, if true, of infinite importance. The one thing it cannot be is moderately important." - C.S. Lewis

Sure would hate for the world to find irrefutable, tangible proof of the Bible's veracity!

8 posted on 07/17/2003 7:49:02 AM PDT by pgyanke (...and to the north of Seoul, you can find ample parking...)
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To: I still care
I understand. However, gopherwood (whatever it is) is still wood. That would require some level of foliage.
9 posted on 07/17/2003 7:50:26 AM PDT by pgyanke (...and to the north of Seoul, you can find ample parking...)
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To: presidio9
It isn't my assertion that he lived in a desert... I'm responding to the line in the article where "scholars" believe he did.
10 posted on 07/17/2003 7:51:14 AM PDT by pgyanke (...and to the north of Seoul, you can find ample parking...)
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To: presidio9

Noah's Flood
11 posted on 07/17/2003 7:52:14 AM PDT by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
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To: blam
PING
12 posted on 07/17/2003 7:53:28 AM PDT by CathyRyan
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To: I still care
"Gopherwood"

Isn't that what "Bushwood" was named before it became overrun with gophers?


13 posted on 07/17/2003 7:53:49 AM PDT by BlueLancer (Der Elite Møøsenspåånkængruppen ØberKømmååndø (EMØØK))
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To: presidio9
What is also interesting is that there are almost 30 different flood stories from different cultures around the world, most with many of the same characteristics of teh flood of the Bible.
14 posted on 07/17/2003 7:56:53 AM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: pgyanke
Isn't it obvious...Noah bought all the wood at Lowes, using the "12 months same as cash" deal. He new he'd never have to pay off the card anyway, so he got a great deal after all.

Seriously though, if you believe the Biblical version (and I do) then you must believe that Noah lived somewhere with a LOT of wood, gopher or otherwise. Imagine the storm that will arise when physical proof of Biblical teachings are found in the heart of the muslim world!

Imagine the storm that will arise when Jesus sets foot in the middle of the muslim 'holy' lands and smites the heathens!

P.S. God Bless America and our Constitution.
15 posted on 07/17/2003 7:59:10 AM PDT by WestPacSailor
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To: I still care
"But today, nobody knows what that is."

I do; Go For Wood. Put another log on the fire honey.
16 posted on 07/17/2003 8:04:22 AM PDT by Clean_Sweep
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To: WestPacSailor
Are you sure you're familiar with Scripture? It clearly says he chose Home Depot (despite the better credit deal at Lowes) because their gopherwood was pressure treated and certified termite free. He was instructed to seek home delivery also.

:-)
17 posted on 07/17/2003 8:07:20 AM PDT by pgyanke (...and to the north of Seoul, you can find ample parking...)
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To: WestPacSailor
I get such of kick out of ancient marine history.
18 posted on 07/17/2003 8:09:39 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: pgyanke
Ahh, you must be reading the King James Version. I guess my translation substituded Lowes for Home Depot in order to make it fit better in the column.

While we are on the topic of Biblical verses, check out http://www.highrock.com/personal/WWJD/
19 posted on 07/17/2003 8:09:48 AM PDT by WestPacSailor
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To: pgyanke
I know, I know. I was providing evidence to support your observation.
20 posted on 07/17/2003 8:11:39 AM PDT by presidio9 (RUN AL, RUN!!!)
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To: presidio9
We're all going to hell, but we're going First Class, eh?
21 posted on 07/17/2003 8:12:18 AM PDT by WestPacSailor
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To: pgyanke
Christian Answers: What is Gopherwood?
22 posted on 07/17/2003 8:16:32 AM PDT by ravingnutter
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To: CathyRyan; farmfriend; JudyB1938; FreetheSouth!; RightWhale
Thanks for the ping Cathy.

Ryan & Pittman in their book, Noah's Flood, (see post #11) estimate that the flood ocurred in 5,600BC and that all the areas just outside the freshwater Black Sea were very arid, almost desert.

When the 'plug' at the Bosporus broke through, the water in the Black Sea rose about one foot a day and most people would have been able to leave with whatever they could carry with them.
About the only place to go was up the river valleys that feed into the Black Sea. They speculate that the edge of the Black Sea supported a huge population of farmers (early irrigation farming) and fishermen. They also speculate that the refugees from the flood spread out all over Europe, bringing the first serious farming and their language with them. Linguistic studies support such a scenario.

I happen to think that the Caucasian mummies, Riddle Of The Desert Mummies, found in the Tarim Basin (In China) may be some of the descendents of refugees from this flood.

23 posted on 07/17/2003 8:16:50 AM PDT by blam
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To: WestPacSailor
While we are on the topic of Biblical verses, check out http://www.highrock.com/personal/WWJD/

Tried... firewall said no.

24 posted on 07/17/2003 8:21:53 AM PDT by pgyanke (...and to the north of Seoul, you can find ample parking...)
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To: presidio9
Oooooohhh... um, thank you.

;-)
25 posted on 07/17/2003 8:22:48 AM PDT by pgyanke (...and to the north of Seoul, you can find ample parking...)
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To: pgyanke
Uggh, mongo no like firewall!

Just e-mail the URL to yourself and try it at home. It's mildly amusing.
26 posted on 07/17/2003 8:24:24 AM PDT by WestPacSailor
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To: WestPacSailor
Imagine the storm that will arise when Jesus sets foot in the middle of the muslim 'holy' lands and smites the heathens!

I'm sure the NY Times will print a critical editorial.

27 posted on 07/17/2003 8:26:22 AM PDT by JohnnyZ (Bumper sticker: "Keep honking -- I'm reloading")
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To: ravingnutter
Thank you. If you read down in the section you linked, you will see that Noah may have been instructed to use "planed wood" or "laminated wood."

That shoots my Home Depot theory... Home Depot didn't begin laminating and planing until the Retail Age.

:-)
28 posted on 07/17/2003 8:28:22 AM PDT by pgyanke (...and to the north of Seoul, you can find ample parking...)
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To: presidio9
Seems to me they were doing a survey of teh Mediteranean once, and found anhydrite on the seaflorr under silt.
Anhydrite forms in salt flats.
On bare ground.
Wouldn't that also mean that the Med was once much lower as well?
And wouldn't the Med rising, eventually, effect the Black Sea?
(Water weight added to crustal plates, subduction, and added geologic stress? Thus, more eathquakes, more volcanism, and basically the reshaping of the whole area?)
29 posted on 07/17/2003 9:22:43 AM PDT by Darksheare ("A predator's eyes are always in front.")
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To: blam; *Gods, Graves, Glyphs
Gods, Graves, Glyphs
List for articles regarding early civilizations , life of all forms, - dinosaurs - etc.
30 posted on 07/17/2003 9:45:29 AM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: pgyanke
"And he built a boat big enough for all of the creatures of the land out of what... cacti?"

As I recall, he used gopher wood.

31 posted on 07/17/2003 9:45:37 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: presidio9
Check this out:

Http://anchorstone.com

This will help in this thread!

32 posted on 07/17/2003 10:23:01 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Ain't nothing worse than feeling obsolete....)
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To: presidio9; newgeezer
The evidence is in the bible, that's where they should be looking.
33 posted on 07/17/2003 10:23:49 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssstian)
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To: biblewonk
I used to buzz when "scientists" would find evidence to support what the Bible says.

Not anymore. I can't help but think, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign..."
34 posted on 07/17/2003 10:30:19 AM PDT by newgeezer (fundamentalist, regarding the Constitution AND the Holy Bible, i.e. WORDS MEAN THINGS)
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To: presidio9
and submerged up to 100,000 square kilometers (60,000 square miles) of land.

It looks like nobody caught this "I'm bad at math" moment. That should be just under 40,000 square miles. The number is a multi-dimensional unit, so you have to do the unit conversion in each dimension.

I'm guessing this is a journalism major trying to use math beyond their ability.

35 posted on 07/17/2003 10:41:10 AM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
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To: newgeezer
"Blessed are those who believe and have not seen"
36 posted on 07/17/2003 10:41:49 AM PDT by biblewonk (Spose to be a Chrisssssstian)
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To: WestPacSailor
Imagine the storm that will arise when physical proof of Biblical teachings are found in the heart of the muslim world!
======================================
The Muslims have no dificulty with the Bible's story of the creation and earth's early history. It is from the time of Abraham onward that their history diverges from that givrn in the Bible. They're good-to-go with Noah and the flood.
37 posted on 07/17/2003 10:41:49 AM PDT by night reader
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To: JohnnyZ
Imagine the storm that will arise when Jesus sets foot in the middle of the muslim 'holy' lands and smites the heathens!
==========================
I'm sure the NY Times will print a critical editorial.
==========================
And Tom Dashle will announce that he is deeply concerned.
38 posted on 07/17/2003 10:52:17 AM PDT by night reader
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To: biblewonk
http://anchorstone.com/number8.html
39 posted on 07/17/2003 10:58:07 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Ain't nothing worse than feeling obsolete....)
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To: WestPacSailor
What storm? The story about Noah can be based upon a historical flood. This does not prove that all the other
crap about resurrection and virginal birth and ...
is true.
40 posted on 07/17/2003 11:09:10 AM PDT by Tac12
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To: Tac12
This does not prove that all the other crap about resurrection and virginal birth and ... is true.

Let me get this to you straight...First off, I do not care what religion you are, if you have any. Secondly, show some respect to those that do believe in the Virgin Birth and Resurrection. Just because you don't believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen!

41 posted on 07/17/2003 11:23:47 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Ain't nothing worse than feeling obsolete....)
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To: presidio9
"Also, some scholars note that the Bible's version has Noah living in a desert in Mesopotamia, while the pre-flood coastline of Turkey was a lush, forested area."

It's interesting that we don't know just where Noah lived before the flood. The ark floated freely for five months, after all, and it is said that after doing that, it came to rest on the mountains of Ararat.

How far can a large vessel drift in five months? He could have started out from what's now South America, for all we know.

Another interesting thing is the expression "fountains of the deep." This could refer to radical vertical shifting of the Earth's crust. Maybe what is now the Black Sea was a flat plain before the flood and, like the dead sea, it just sank into the ground.

42 posted on 07/17/2003 11:25:14 AM PDT by nightdriver
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To: nightdriver
let me direct you to this site for help;

http://anchorstone.com

43 posted on 07/17/2003 11:26:40 AM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Ain't nothing worse than feeling obsolete....)
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To: Zavien Doombringer
"let me direct you to this site for help;"

How is that supposed to "help?"

44 posted on 07/17/2003 1:08:10 PM PDT by nightdriver
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To: nightdriver
It has arch evidence of the ark, photos and all...Interesting site!
45 posted on 07/17/2003 1:10:22 PM PDT by Zavien Doombringer (Ain't nothing worse than feeling obsolete....)
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To: Darksheare
"Wouldn't that also mean that the Med was once much lower as well? And wouldn't the Med rising, eventually, effect the Black Sea? "

By Jove, you get it. Here is a worldwide map with the oceans reduced in depth by about 300 feet. (300-500 is widely accepted for the Ice Age). If you'll maneuver around on the map, you'll see that the Mediterranean was probably isolated into three different sections during the Ice Age. There are scouwering marks on the ocean floor at Gibralter just like at the Bosporus from the inrushing water.

On a side note, I think the same thing happened in the Gulf Of Mexico during the Ice Age. The Mediterranean has completely dried out at least forty times however, the last time was five million years ago. There are sections of the Mediterranean that have salt on the bottom that is thousands of feet thick.

46 posted on 07/17/2003 1:37:17 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I seem to remember reading this somewhere.
Don't rightly remember where at the moment.

I also seem to remember the exact salt composition as being anhydrite, which would form in places like Death Valley, if conditions favored it. (For others reading, anhydrite is very nasty natural salt crystals that can be like silica gel, it'll dry things out in no time. It will also form in salt flats receiving very little rain, but high salt content. IIRC.)

Haven't they also said that during the last ice age, the oceans were much lower as well? And haven't some said that the Med flooding over was about 10,000 years ago? That'd be quite a feat as well, considering the Black Sea is thought to have flooded anywhere from 9,000 to 7,000 years ago.

I've been wondering just what people were going to do with the proof of that occurence. The 'Pillars of Hercules' indeed show alot of scouring, and the channel carved into the floor of the Strait of Gibralter shows that quite a volume went through at some time.

I have that map saved on my machine, and have been eyeballing it often. Wonder if the Gulf will show some of the same properties that the Med and the Black Sea show?
I also wonder how often civilizations have been buried under water, how many 'atlantis' stories have happened?

47 posted on 07/17/2003 2:05:22 PM PDT by Darksheare ("A predator's eyes are always in front.")
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To: blam
Bump and thanks for pinging me Blam!
48 posted on 07/17/2003 2:45:55 PM PDT by FreetheSouth! ("Those Rebel bastards couldn't hit an elephant at this dis..." Last words of Union General Sedgewick)
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To: Darksheare
"I also seem to remember the exact salt composition as being anhydrite, which would form in places like Death Valley, if conditions favored it. "

The salt at the bottom of the Mediterranean is a type of salt that forms only if it is exposed to sunlight...and I don't remember what that is.

"I also wonder how often civilizations have been buried under water, how many 'atlantis' stories have happened?"

I think many...all the 'good stuff' is probably underwater.

49 posted on 07/17/2003 4:33:58 PM PDT by blam
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To: Darksheare
"I also wonder how often civilizations have been buried under water, how many 'atlantis' stories have happened?"

This one, Lost Civilisation From 7,500BC Discovered Off Indian Coast, and the one off the coast of Cuba ought to be real interesting.

50 posted on 07/17/2003 4:38:26 PM PDT by blam
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