Memphis: Sixth home shooting bloodies thief

http://www.gomemphis.com/mca/local_news/article/0,1426,MCA_437_2120755,00.html ^ | 7/19/03 | Bill Dries

[VeniVidiVici]

Did you have any problems with the 500?

No, I didn't have any problems with it. I was only able to get the 275gr rounds so I shot 24 rounds of that (two boxes). I ordered some boxes of the 440gr and some more 275gr from Cor-Bon. I should have them by Monday and will shoot sometime next week. Great gun! Wonderful balance too.

If I'm going to shoot it on a regular basis I have to learn to reload. Wallet can't stand too much of $3.00 a round.

[VeniVidiVici]

But for real grins, you can't beat a 16 ga. with No. 3 or No. 4 in it! Nothing but a drifting red mist . . .

Hmm. Now you got me thinking. I bet a 12ga against a watermelon would be fun! Wonder how I could explain the new addition? (Hey honey! Got you a new carry weapon! What do you mean it's too big. Well, you know, I can't take it back)

[Shooter 2.5]

Thanks for the information.

I think my friend was using the 440 grains. He's a reloader and casts his own so his costs aren't that bad. Let me know how the other ammo works. Again, thanks.

[autoresponder]

Sunday, 7.20.2003

«» My Sharps 4 barrel

22rf derringer «»

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Benelli makes some fine shotguns but they are pretty dear to buy whether new or used.

I would look to find a good condition "pre-owned" shotgun from a family that is selling of one or two after someone passed away.

Stay away from large estate sales and specialty dealers as they always get top dollar.

You can find some interesting vintage firearms in the Gun List; Winchesters are always a good find.

Antique Colt doubles are still available in hammerless but the rare Colt doubles go quick.

Don*t rush to buy one, take your time and you will find the right one.

a u t o r e s p o n d e r

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[GailA]

Thanks, the Kahr is out of our price range. What about small revolvers? Normally he carries his 9mm Rugar, but there are times when it is just to bulky to hide by summer type shirts. He usually wears long pants when he goes anywhere so he thought the ankle carry might solve that problem.

[GailA]

I think your post is well reasoned.

I chose my Bersa .380 for several reasons, 1 it fit my small hands, 2, I could pull the slide easy, 3 it was flatter than the revolver, 4, the fire power was good a good choice, and 5 I like the looks of it better than the revolvers I tried. I tried several revolvers out and the butts were just to wide for my small hand.

Hubby said any less than the .380 was to 'light' in fire power so we disgarded any lighter type.

We have a 22 we use for 'fun' target practice because the ammo is cheap vs the cost of the ammo for our 9mm and the .380. Not that we don't practice with all 3, just that we can pump more rounds through the 22 more often.

Hubby is a 2 way radio senior tech and is in and out of remote transmitter sites, in and out of businesses and depending on which company he works for might have to wear a uniform. The ankle conceal weapon would strictly be for self-defense in Memphis. He goes into some pretty high crime neighborhoods sometimes. So I'd say most of the time he will be in a urban setting.

[ExSoldier]

"Maybe a baby Glock?"

My Glock 27 in shorty forty is my standard carry gun unless I think I'm heading into Indian Country, and then it's a ParaOrdnance P10 .45 or one of my other versions of "old slabsides."

[AnAmericanMother]

Thanks.

There's only one dealer I would consider buying from; I've known him 35 plus years and he won't cheat me - also, if it doesn't work out I can bring it back.

Otherwise, I'll keep my eye peeled for small estate sales.

Thanks again.

[AnAmericanMother]

One other thing to consider: in Georgia, ankle holsters are illegal for all but law enforcement. Don't know the law in your locality, but you might want to check just to make sure.

I know a number of people who still have hideout guns anyway - but at least make sure you know the risks before you go in.

[GailA]

No restrictions that I'm aware of in TN. Just can't carry in a bar or place that sells booze by the drink like Applebees. But we can now carry at the grocery and convience stores.

[AnAmericanMother]

Well, that's good. In GA with a permit you can only carry in a holster, and it has to be at your waist, in a shoulder holster, or in a briefcase or pocketbook. I don't like to carry in my purse because Ye Olde Pursesnatcher gets a free bonus if he catches me napping. Also, carrying a holstered pistol loose in your briefcase can result in embarassing situations - such as happened to a police officer friend of mine who drew out of his duffel bag and came up with the holster still on the pistol. The guy he drew down on was actually laughing at him - it was a revolver so it still would have fired all right, but it's highly embarassing to be laughed at by the guy you're trying to arrest! (might have been even more embarassing for the subject if this guy didn't have a sense of humor).

[ExSoldier]

I have a caveat that I need to add. I haven't actually ridden in years. Lord, I doubt I could adjust the tack at this point of my life, let alone catch the proper "rhythm" for a good post. In fact, truth be known...I'd much rather sit upong a good cruising motorcycle than something that has a mind of it's own these days.

[lowbridge]

That's when Schaefer reached into her china cabinet and pulled a .32-caliber black revolver, shooting twice at the robber as he ran toward her to take the gun away from her.

He failed to get the gun...

But, but, but, the gun control advocates say that she is more likely to have the gun taken away from her and used on her.

This story has to be an urban legend because there is just no such thing as a robber who couldn't outrun a speeding bullet. Right? :-)

[AnAmericanMother]

Oh, yeah, BTW -- that's a great old derringer. (Does it work? Do you shoot it? Bet it gets some doubletakes at the range if you do.)

[AnAmericanMother]

You never lose the ability to ride - you may get a little rusty but after a time or two back in the saddle it all comes back.

Through a set of circumstances too complicated to recount here, my dad wound up going to Engineer OCS and getting assigned to a cavalry unit - the last remount (9th) of the 2nd Cavs at Ft. Clark TX. He had never ridden before, and the colonel assigned him a stable sergeant who put him through the wringer (his horse bucked him off every morning for awhile.) But he learned the whole deal - mounted drill, lance drill, jumping, the works.

Anyhow, after the 2nd Cav was mechanized and shipped over piecemeal to N. Africa, he didn't get on a horse again for probably 25 years (he said he'd had enough.) But some time in the late 60s, we were in Haiti visiting the Mad King Christophe's Citadelle. It sits on top of a mountain, and the only way to get up there is to walk or ride one of the tough little Haitian horses. So we all got horses - and dad walked up to his little grey mare, gave her the eye, and swung on board like a pro. His legs just locked down and off he went with his back as straight as a board! The little mare knew he could ride, she arched her neck and pranced like a good 'un. All the Haitian guides thought it was a hoot and called him "le petit Chasseur".

[Vigilanteman]

You of course could do much better.

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad she got the perp. I'm just sorry it wasn't fatal. If there is a next time, we all need to practice the proper kind of gun control-- to paraphrase Mel Gibson's boys in The Patriot "Aim small, miss small."

There ought to be a bounty paid out on every perp taken out by an armed citizen. An armed society is a polite society. Do you think it is a coincidence that the most polite people in America are found where they are also the best armed-- the south, the Great Plains and the intermountain west?

[autoresponder]

Sharps der(r)ingers bring good bucks because of their unique, stong, and simple design.

The barrel slides forward for reloading and a simple hand rotates a circular firing pin on the hammer face when you cock it.

The age old problem of cylinder timing does not exist and there is also no loss of velocity as there is no cylinder/barrel gas gap with the bonus of no lead spitting from worn handguns.

Most of the Sharps and Sharps and Hankins derringers were made with silver plated brass frames, some few with cast iron frames.

The main part that seems to go on many is the small flat trigger spring. A pain to match exactly from scratch or to make and replace.

I broke my usual rule and cut the tip off of an automotive or machinery common grease fitting and used the tiny coil spring to replace the flat trigger spring.

Slips right in without altering frame or the spur trigger.

Notice the quick fitting and removal of the trigger lock device.

These were mostly made in .22rf and .32rf and had no extractor as the later Remington double and single derringers did.

They fire a .22rf short; period cartridge was basically a low velocity black powder round mostly powered by the primer, but the Sharps is stout enough in design to fire modern smokeless .22rf cartridges.

All of these were tiny vest pocket short range saloon and backups. I have a sweetheart little E. Allen circa 1865 marked .22rf single shot swing barrel ladies' garter derringer with fantasic design, material selection, manufacture, machining, assembly, and workmanship. Has original hinged casing extractor and only require a minimum of CRC soaking prior to wiping down after disassembly and oiing it. Original factory hand-carved and fitted rosewood birdshead grips in mint condoition removed, of course, before any solvents of oils used.

I never varnish any wood grips. I use a mixture of beeswax and carnaba wax to remoisturize and provide a nice semigloss protective finish. A little Minwax first is sometimes great. Never any sandpaper to remove nicks or dents; light xxxx steel wool and a nylon pot scubber pad with a very light touch only.

"Never fooled with" is the whole deal with antiques. There isa fine line between cleaning, small vital internal parts replacement, fabrication, or restoration, reoving surface rust, and the dreaded "refinishing, remanufacturing, faking, and 'enhancement' of any antique", especially firearms.

Refinishing an old Philadelphia dresser, American or Sheffield Bowie, Auburn Boattail roadster, or an antique pre-1899 firearm is all taboo.

You can do it, but removing early patina (age, dust, corrosion, crud) on that philly rocker or dresser make make it "look untouched original", but will drop it's true value from $50,000-$600,000 down to $300-$10,000!

Even a "basketcase" or "relic" is worth more if not "restored". Problem is, in the 1800s furniture was "faked" in England and the US, as it is today. "Married" pieces are made up using oldparts. Same with FAs.

"Campfire Colt" or Rem CW mixed parts of Colt factory mods by shortening 7½" US Cav barrels down to 5¼" for US Artilleries are OK and mixed factory SNs are fine, but modern "parts box" creations are fakeroos unless represented as wahat they are.

If so, even primo US Inspector parts assembled into a Colt SA will not bring much money.

Mint Colts and Henrys have gone for well over 1/2 a million buckeroos.

Many go for from $4,000-$90,000 easy.

Colt antique SAs values have doubled and even tripled since Clinton-Reno sued Bill gates and "Microed-Marketed" [--Jungle Jim ™/©s] yer IRAs!

It is claimed by top Colt SA collectors and/or appraisers that over 90% of all vintage antique (pre-1999 BAT classification) Colt military Cavalry and Artillery .45LC revolvers are now "enhanced", "over-cleaned restored", or outright "fakeroos" now.

New barrels exactly made of original composition and manufacture materials, laser faked marking to dupicate old original stampings, rebluing to original (usually better standards), new faked "US Inspector" cartouched and date stamped walnut handgrips made with modern computer duplicators and hand fitted and finished using cenury plus old vintage walnut wood from a badly cracked or broken unrepairable or relatively cheap Springfield Trapdoor stock.

Many top quality Italian made Colt clone parts are used to fake lots of Colt parts.

Smokeless cartridges, new standard loads, or even old 1893-1905 smokeless are never to be used in early black powder firearms. Even a modern .44-40 carbine high velocity hunting load is enough to blow up a mint Colt 1885 SA revolver. Modern smokeless reduced load "Cowboy" cartridges are now available for SASS Single Action Shooting Society competition and/or fun; handloading reduced charged smokeless is often iffy for pros or old timers.

Black powder is smelly, dirty, and makes cleaning your firearms a chore. Modern BP replacement powders are now available for those so inclined to reload for vintage cartridge arms or percussion firearms.

Solid powder cylindrical loads are available now in .44 (abt .451-.455 really) for C&B percussion revolvers and modern replicas and also early B&B and Flintlock rifles.

Add the bullet and the cap or prime the pan and you are out for bear. I myself use a touch of instant glue on the bullet to attach it quickly to the solid loads, using a combustible fiber disc in between.

Close to the original paper or metal foil wrapped pre-made loads of the American Revolutionay War, 1812, Mexican War, Civil War. Colt made great foil wrapped BP cartridges then but the cost was execessive for most back then.

Even in the days of metallic cassed cartridges many preferred an older or new percussion handgun or rifle even up to about 1890 as factory cartridges were rare and hard to find west of the early frontier. In those days that was beyond Indiana and Pennsylvania!


Black powder, percussion caps, and lead for molding new bullets was easier to find and to carry on the way west or out west. Early rimfire and centerfire cartridges often misfired too.

Therefore many had a Colt or Remington C&B revolver with a cartridge conversion cylinder too.

I myself have a rare Richards design Springfield Factory remanufactured 12-notch Colt factory original 4-digit SN Model 1860 Army cylinder for firing .451-.453 RF (and later CF) cartridges.

I also have a rare Colt factory executives late 1890s drop-in "de-conversion" Colt cylinder to fire BP C&B in my circa 1898 .44-40. Uses standard percussion caps, just like a Civil War Colt or Remington.

Hint: *See "solid C&B loads" above.

Two hunting seasons instead of one. Colt C&B and SAs also had optional detachable walnut or skeleton metal shoulder stocks; legal, pre-1900 BATF with barrels under 16".

But carry your federal BATF documentation and local state FA regulations. Your local game warden or LEO may vary with the laws, as may your municipal statutes. Aunti Gunn may even be a state game warden, wildlife officer, or a zealous ignorant liberal police recruit, or just a uniformed elistist that thinks civilians are below him or her.

Remember Waco.

They had BATF legal Class III MG ownership and conversion licenses and a qualified gunsmith there.

80 died.

Only 149 in combat so far in Iraq, only 140 in desert Storm.

WTC 1993.

The Clinton-Reno Legacy.

I would not wish to face a grandchild somewhere 15 years from now.

Smokeless powder cartridges are not adviseable period for antiquey firearms. Your budget may be important, but price out reattaching exploded fingers these days first! If you can find enough little pieces.

Not advisable in the small early Civil War hideouts like my S&W Model 1855 .22rf 7 shot spur trigger revolver, my later circa 1873 Colt Newline .22rf, or the Remington .22rf Iroquois revolvers of the early 1870s.

Frame, cylinder, and barrel will all conspire to surgically redesign your strong hand unless in top condition and using only black powder cap powered cartridges.

Safety first applies bigtime with firearms; but education and knowledge cannot be ignored.

The same applies to most pre-1905 black powder firearms. The frames were often cast iron or not the tougher smokeless forged steel frames of the 1896 Colt SAs and big Smith breaktops like my .44-40 Winchester DA Frontier.

Early shotguns will eat you too if fired with smokeless shells.

A cure for this is to fit slide in shotgun or rifle sub-caliber barrel sleeves, many made to allow the original extractors to function.

Brilley (spg?) makes and fits beautiful ones and an interesting choice to convert an early Colt damascus barrel double to a powerful double big game double rifle at at fraction of the cost of a good hunting double today.

I myself would not get to hung up on autoloaders.

Im handguns I prefer the wheelguns. Misfire and just advance the cylinder. Not always so with pistols. Timing is everything.

Pump and Lever-Actions are dandy and reliable longarms. SWATs prefer Mossberg, Rem, S&W pump shotguns.

Lever-Actions were only a pain for military rapidfire laying down they said. So the Army took Custer's Cavalry Trooper's old Civil War Spencer repeating carbines and gave them new Springfield powerful SINGLESHOT .45-70CF "Trapdoors".

US Army brass even said the new Model 1873 .44-40 Lever-Action Winchester carbines or the older Civil War Henrys and the later Model 1866 Winchester 44RFs were not powerful enough for long range.

Said a trooper could extract, reload, and fire 6 .45-70s a minute. The ammo jammed and/or misfired. No extraction. Slow to reload under fire.

The Indians use old Civil War Spencers, Henrys, and Winchester M-'66s. Even the new Winchester 1873s.

The Colt .45 Schofield SAs were slow to reload. The S&W .45 Schofield, then available, extracted 6 cases at once, fired 5-6 reloads a minute. Custer and his men did not have them.

Timing is everything.

Gotta Gogh



FR READER ALERT!

If you read the above and found any spelling or composition errors, please clean your computer screens, reboot, have strong hot coffee, add Wild Turkey or Yukon Jack as required.

Reread.

Now!

Isn't that better now?

[T Wayne]

When I first started traveling some 20 years ago, I heard a similar story concerning a "recent" widow in the Memphis area.

But her dearly departed had been a waterfowler whose favorite firearm for his sport was a 10 ga. double.

The invader was removed from the house in multiple parts.

[PropheticZero]

Its my understanding that most law enforcement training tells you to pretty much empty your magazine into the perp. Mostly a function of getting enough holes into the perp for the blood to drain out enough for them to pass out. Obviously the other side of the coin is to simply punch a paper plate size hole in them in the vicinity of their blood pumper, or shorten them by about 10 inches.

Wilson Combat makes a somewhat pricey 1911ish thing in 45 cal that holds 10 rds. Talk about the best of both worlds.

[AnAmericanMother]

Wow! I don't have anything earlier than WWI, none of the antique stuff. I have reloaded some very quiet .45/70 rounds for a friend with a trap door Springfield, using the data from the old RCBS book, and that's the extent of it. No coal-burners either. But it does sound like fun.