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Just hire Americans
The Arizona Republic ^ | July 23, 2003 | Tim Johnson (letter to the editor)

Posted on 07/23/2003 3:44:41 PM PDT by Willie Green

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:21:30 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

We will never stop the flow of illegal aliens until it becomes too costly for the people who hire them.

Our manufacturing businesses moved factories overseas for the cheap labor, and now the service industry (which can't move overseas) has learned that it can increase profits by hiring uneducated, poor Mexicans. The big lie is that the illegal aliens are doing jobs Americans won't do. The truth is that Americans can't do the jobs for the pay Mexicans will work for.


(Excerpt) Read more at azcentral.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; US: Arizona
KEYWORDS: illegalimmigration; jobmarket; thebusheconomy
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1 posted on 07/23/2003 3:44:41 PM PDT by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green
Oh no Tyson Chicken would go TA
2 posted on 07/23/2003 3:51:10 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Willie Green
Illegal Invasion ("immigration") needs to be made a felony.
Assisting in the commission of a felony already IS a felony!
All those stupid "shield laws" that prevent the cops, social workers, and medical staff from even finding out if someone is an illegal, or reporting them if they are, must be overturned.

INS needs to start being VERY visible around the service industry, they also need to start rounding up illegals at the corners where they grab the "day labor" cash only, no taxes paid, jobs the illegals are so fond of.
3 posted on 07/23/2003 3:53:44 PM PDT by Richard-SIA (Nuke the U.N!)
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To: Willie Green
The truth is that Americans can't do the jobs for the pay Mexicans will work for.

Can't? Or don't want to?

4 posted on 07/23/2003 4:00:23 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: Willie Green; Enemy Of The State; HighRoadToChina; nutmeg; Clemenza; PARodrig; firebrand; ...
PING

If you would like to be removed from my job export ping list FReepmail me. If you'd like to be on it FReepmail me too.






5 posted on 07/23/2003 4:20:50 PM PDT by Cacique
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To: Cacique
man, your one busy turkey arent you?
6 posted on 07/23/2003 4:22:18 PM PDT by Enemy Of The State (If we don't take action now, We settle for nothing later!)
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To: Willie Green
Americans also should boycott companies that hire illegal aliens.

Makes perfect sense.

7 posted on 07/23/2003 4:32:24 PM PDT by rdb3 (Nerve-racking since 0413hrs on XII-XXII-MCMLXXI)
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To: Texas_Dawg
Both. Someone who brings 5 or 6 kids over from Mexico but accepts a job paying minimum wage with no benefits isn't providing their own living. Americans who work don't like having to take food stamps and free indigent care at the county hospitals. Plus they like owning homes and the rest when they work for a living versus living in government housing.
8 posted on 07/23/2003 4:36:35 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ
That was a lot just to admit that a lot of Americans are unwilling to work for what some other people just as capable as them are.
9 posted on 07/23/2003 4:40:43 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: Texas_Dawg
You can't claim that only Americans are unwilling to work the jobs at the low wages that illegals will. Here's some (thousands) of Mexicans who won't either ---they're demanding more welfare instead of heading to the fields to pick chilis or bale hay.

http://www.tradeobservatory.org/News/index.cfm?ID=4476

They're actually suing the government for more handouts and they consider it discrimination to offer English as part of job-retraining. You certainly won't see them competing with illegals ----and yet they have the exact same language and job skills and came from the same place.

10 posted on 07/23/2003 4:53:19 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Texas_Dawg
"We are working people," he said in Spanish. "We want to keep working."

And isn't this a joke ---they're suing for more welfare, if they wanted to work, it seems they'd have followed their jobs back to Mexico which is where they moved from in the first place. Why didn't they move back to Mexico?

11 posted on 07/23/2003 4:55:55 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: FITZ
You can't claim that only Americans are unwilling to work the jobs at the low wages that illegals will.

Oh I don't. Lots of people of all nationalities seem to believe that they should have protection from free competition and protection from what happens when you don't work. I am for ending federal government welfare as well as for ending federal government protection of jobs. I waste tons of money on both, and so does every American.

12 posted on 07/23/2003 4:59:40 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: Willie Green
What doesn't make sense is how come they can have jobs and get subsidized too?

And we are expected to contribute through our taxes and who knows what else.

This is sheer lunacy. It's crooked and twisted thinking. No wonder we are going broke.

Also, the people who broker these deals are really getting a sweet deal. They don't have to do much of anything except rake the money in.
13 posted on 07/23/2003 5:12:44 PM PDT by freekitty
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To: Texas_Dawg
They can, all they have to do is avoid the payroll taxs, get free medical, live eight to a room, and collect welfare for fictional kids in addition to their real ones!

Just like the illegal invaders do.

If they then pool their money as the orientals , middle eastern, and some Mex. do, they can then start buying up the local strip mall or gas station, then only hire kids of their own etnicity to work for them.

Just like the illegal invaders do.

Nothing like a good communist backround to make the transition to an American based collective attractive!
It's really great for the clan elder, he gets to dole out pennies on the dollar to the workers as an "allowance" while he has all the best of everything for himself.

Yes, if American workers would just lower their standards and become good communist, living the collective lifestyle, the illegals would be shut out in a hurry!

In reality, it is taxs and entitlements that are killing wages and forcing small business to use the cheap illegal labor, a closely related vicious circle.

There is no rational reason for Mex. to have a standard of living any less than ours, except their culture of socialism and corruption at all levels.
14 posted on 07/23/2003 5:12:52 PM PDT by Richard-SIA (Nuke the U.N!)
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To: Willie Green
Tim, there is a tremendous penalty for hiring a wetback. As I recall, it is $10,000 per day. The penalties were witten into the silly law that requires employers to get a completed I-9 on every new employee.

The law is silly because it places the burden of i-9s on legitimate employers but, because it is not enforced, does nothing against those who illegally hire wetbacks. It is just like at the border. There are laws against it but if the feds ignore the law, what difference does the law make.

There are jobs that Americans (especially inner city blacks) can't do but only because Mexicans are doing them. And, I don't know where you saw Americans mowing lawns, but here in North Texas few blacks or high school kids can get summer jobs in landscaping because they only hire wetbacks.

15 posted on 07/23/2003 5:20:18 PM PDT by Tacis
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To: Willie Green
Why should Americans work. Welfare, unemployment insurance, workmans comp. are more lucrative, California is a good example.
16 posted on 07/23/2003 5:28:50 PM PDT by BIGZ
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To: Tacis
The penalties were witten into the silly law that requires employers to get a completed I-9 on every new employee.

If they give fake papers (which can be had for around $500.00 US) the employers chances of knowing that the person they hired is an illegal alien is about 20% at most.

17 posted on 07/23/2003 5:31:41 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Under advice from my lawyer I will now be known as Mostly Harmless Teddy Bear)
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To: Texas_Dawg
I am for ending federal government welfare as well as for ending federal government protection of jobs.

But still ---what are we going to do with all the non-working immigrants and Americans that are here now? In this city alone there are thousands of NAFTA displaced ---mostly immigrants with more coming in every day who won't find jobs ---- what do we do with our fast growing unskilled population when we're sending out the unskilled jobs? To me it seems it'd be better if we had jobs for them, as it is they're laying around idle but we're paying their living costs.

18 posted on 07/23/2003 5:51:42 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
The government could easily clean up the Social Security number database. It's a felony crime to present false and stolen identity documents but for some reason it's being allowed. I know several people ---Americans -- who missed out on a job just because someone had stolen their Social Security numbers and they couldn't be hired, the government wouldn't issue them a new number and the job was long gone by the time things got straightened out. To me stolen SSN's should be treated like a serious crime and it's not.
19 posted on 07/23/2003 5:55:33 PM PDT by FITZ
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To: Willie Green
I have to agree with you on this one, Willie. Good catch.

I think I might know the letter writer, but I doubt it.

20 posted on 07/23/2003 5:56:00 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty ( 2003, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
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To: FITZ
What are we going to do with all the non-working immigrants and Americans that are here now?

Cut welfare payments. Keep fighting, keep cutting. They'll either work harder to find or create jobs, or they'll go back to somewhere that the cost of living is cheaper. I'm not for opening the flood gates. I'm for controlling our borders and then bringing in enough people to do the jobs needed at the cheapest price. I am NOT for cutting off immigration in order to force me and other Americans to have to pay high prices to support ridiculously inflated wages for union workers. If someone out there is willing to do the same job for less than someone here, bring them on.

21 posted on 07/23/2003 6:03:12 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: Texas_Dawg
If we could get rid of the welfare state in one fell swoop, eliminating all government transfer payments, many of the anti-immigration crowd still wouldn't change their mind, they'd just find a new reason to be against it. That being said, I am for abolishing the welfare state. Lock, stock and barrel. Private charities do the same thing far better with VOLUNTARY contributions, not the "robbing Peter to pay Paul" system we currently have.
22 posted on 07/23/2003 6:51:51 PM PDT by austinTparty
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To: austinTparty
many of the anti-immigration crowd still wouldn't change their mind, they'd just find a new reason to be against it.

Of course... I'm against lawlessness and illegal immigration as much as anyone is. But with this crowd, "illegals" means "Mexicans", legal or otherwise. I'm from Texas and live in NYC. I've worked warehouses in 100 degree Texas summers with Mexicans who couldn't speak English, and from my experiences, if I've got a job I need to do, I will take those guys over many of the unionizes "Americans" I've seen up here. A friend here was telling me recently about a union worker who had been hired by his firm to move some computers from one building to another. My friend's computer was slow in arriving and it was getting late in the day and he HAD to have the computer in place before the start of the next day... yet the union workers (still on the clock) would not bring his computer over from the other building because they had filled their pre-arranged quota for the day or something. So my friend, fed up, finally just said, "Fine. I'll go over there and get it myself," at which point the union worker told him to hang on, he could not be doing this since it was their job and this would cause a legal conflict, and that the union worker would call his supervisor to see if it was OK for the union worker to go get the computer. This kind of story in the completely unionized Northeast (they're blue states for a reason) is nothing unusual. I am so glad that this type of Marxist insanity is so inherently absure to Texans, and I would take every single Mexican I have ever met in my life over white, American, union workers like the one my friend encountered.

23 posted on 07/23/2003 7:03:25 PM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: Texas_Dawg
As far as I'm concerned, protecting our borders means "keep the terrorists out" and let the hard-working (legal) immigrants in. Of course we want to pay attention to who comes over our borders, but after 9/11, I'm a helluva lot more worried about the Arab immigrants crossing over from Canada, than I am about José who is coming across at Tijuana to go pick tomatoes in an American field.
24 posted on 07/23/2003 7:08:32 PM PDT by austinTparty
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To: Texas_Dawg
and I would take every single Mexican I have ever met in my life over white, American, union workers like the one my friend encountered.
Blacks were more likely to be union members (16.9 percent) than either whites (12.8 percent) or Hispanics (10.5 percent). Black men had the highest unionization rate (18.2 percent) among the major demographic groups, and Hispanic women and white women had the lowest rates, 9.8 percent and 10.9 percent, respectively.

Source

I know facts don't mean much to you, but I figured I'd post them anyway.

25 posted on 07/23/2003 7:14:24 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Tacis
Oh, how's about offering a percentage of that $10,000 fine to the local city's coffers. Sounds motivating ... instead of these charity queens (the build-a-slum babes), et al, rushing to inundate my area, possibly yours, lest the scourge reach their neighborhoods.

I'd like to see a list in every morning's paper, naming those, individuals and businesses alike, apprehended for hiring illegals. They list restaurants with health code violations. They do the same, or at least my local does, for those suspected of DUIs. And, by the way, I no longer purchase Tyson products, do you?

Oh yeah, I forgot ... my city RUNS an illegal alien job center and the county HR nimnod says we shouldn't have "too many rules" there, while the legitimate temp company "Labor Day" less than a mile away has to follow laws.
26 posted on 07/23/2003 8:12:15 PM PDT by LNewman
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To: rdb3
agreed.
the trick would then become one of identification of those companies.
27 posted on 07/23/2003 9:10:34 PM PDT by King Prout (people hear and do not listen, see and do not observe, speak without thought, post and not edit)
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To: Willie Green
To my surprise most of the hotels, restaurants, and carwashes were staffed by American citizens.

And it's the same where I live, local citizens doing all the jobs "no one wants to do".

Illegals are not needed except by businesses who want the cheap labor. Enforce the laws and put Americans back to work.

28 posted on 07/23/2003 10:04:05 PM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: Richard-SIA
Illegally entering or staying in the uSA already is a felony. It already is a felony to assist a person in being in the USA illegally. We need to enforce the imigration laws already on the books.
29 posted on 07/24/2003 5:22:39 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: clamper1797; sarcasm; BrooklynGOP; A. Pole; Zorrito; GiovannaNicoletta; Caipirabob; Ed_in_NJ; ...
Ping.

If you want on or off my economy ping list let me know.
30 posted on 07/24/2003 5:26:09 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Texas_Dawg
The truth is that Americans can't do the jobs for the pay Mexicans will work for.

Can't? Or don't want to?

I wonder how many free traders would accept the average Mexican standard of living?

31 posted on 07/24/2003 5:33:54 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Texas_Dawg
Can't. Mexicans live eight/ten men to an apartment, share expenses and send the rest home to Mexico to the tune of nine billion a year. No American family lives 8 familes to a house. Americans can't live on the salary illegals can.

Besides the tired excuse sold to Americans as to why it has been and continues to be "our duty" to endure high taxes, pay billions in foreign aid, hock our future to the tune of 34 trillion IOU's, and allow ourselves to be inundated while turning the U.S. into a third world flop house was to raise the boats of the people of the world, NOT SINK OURS, and certainly not lower our boats or standard of living on the altar of the "god of diversity". We are being strip mined by pandering politicians in the pockets of greedy corporations.
32 posted on 07/24/2003 6:09:20 AM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: harpseal
Well ... it happened. Our departments H1B got called back to India ... stated reason was immigration issues ... apparently the company is getting rid of the H1B's. Though he is a nice kid and I liked him a lot ... I'm really not sorry to see him go. This company has had 4 lay-offs in the 10 months I have been here. The guy in the cube next to me who has been with the company 22 years said to me yesterday that he's lost a lot of good friends and the company lost /laid off a lot of good workers to bring in the H1B's. He said he felt that they had NO BUSINESS here when there are so many laid of American engineers (my sentiments exactly) He said he has worked with a lot of them and most can't hold a candle to an American engineer. That is the same experience that I have had with them as well.

I did not realize the level of hostility there is for the H1B's held by the other engineers I work with until I talked with several yesterday. BTW I've been assigned to take over / cleaning up the mess left by the H1B in question.

33 posted on 07/24/2003 6:09:32 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Conservative by nature ... Republican in Spirit ... Patriot by Heart ... and Anti Liberal BY GOD)
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To: Willie Green
Interesting perspective re:Ohio. I live in Montana and it's the same. Hotel housekeepers, landscapers, construction workers, agricultural workers - all Americans. Some are Native Americans but Americans, just the same.
34 posted on 07/24/2003 6:13:24 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (White Devils for Sharpton. We're baaaaad. We're Nationwide)
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To: harpseal
If you get a chance harpseal please put me on you ping list.
35 posted on 07/24/2003 6:17:03 AM PDT by Reaganwuzthebest
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To: MissAmericanPie
Americans can't live on the salary illegals can.

Sure they can. They just don't want too many times.

36 posted on 07/24/2003 6:20:02 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: A. Pole
I wonder how many free traders would accept the average Mexican standard of living?

I would never, ever, ever sit around and demand that the federal government protect my salary with other Americans' money.

37 posted on 07/24/2003 6:21:13 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: Texas_Dawg
I'm for controlling our borders and then bringing in enough people to do the jobs needed at the cheapest price.

In other words you are for artificially manipulating the marketplace to give benefits to yourself.

38 posted on 07/24/2003 6:23:17 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: clamper1797
Well ... it happened. Our departments H1B got called back to India ... stated reason was immigration issues ... apparently the company is getting rid of the H1B's.

Glad to hear it.

BTW I've been assigned to take over / cleaning up the mess left by the H1B in question.

I am certain that will keep you busy for a while.

39 posted on 07/24/2003 6:25:12 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Texas_Dawg
I would never, ever, ever sit around and demand that the federal government protect my salary with other Americans' money.

Yet because you think yourself immune from the pressures overseas outsourcing and illegal immigrants and H1-B guest workers provide you demand the Federal government subsidize you through no tariffs and violation of immigration laws and bringin foreign workers. you are of the dame stripe as the Union thugs you talk of just you get the benefits instead of them.

40 posted on 07/24/2003 6:27:45 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Reaganwuzthebest
done
41 posted on 07/24/2003 6:38:15 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: harpseal
Yet because you think yourself immune from the pressures overseas outsourcing and illegal immigrants

Have I ever said this? Why would this matter?

42 posted on 07/24/2003 6:38:52 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: harpseal
In other words you are for artificially manipulating the marketplace to give benefits to yourself.

Nope. Just allowing for immigration to keep the entire country growing (since without it we would be in serious decline, population wise).

43 posted on 07/24/2003 6:40:37 AM PDT by Texas_Dawg ("...They came to hate their party and this president... They have finished by hating their country.")
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To: harpseal
I am certain that will keep you busy for a while.

Job security ... for now.

Maybe .... just maybe the companies are beginning to learn ... you get what you pay for. Oh and for all those free traitor clowns out there ... the reason engineers get paid what they do ... is that we put the time and effort in to learn and train to do the job ... if you think we are over paid ... you come over and do the job.

44 posted on 07/24/2003 6:43:20 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Conservative by nature ... Republican in Spirit ... Patriot by Heart ... and Anti Liberal BY GOD)
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To: Willie Green
Dontchaknow, we are soooo rich that we don't need jobs? American and Americans can do without a paycheck. Hell, every American should invite 10 foreigners to come live with them we are doing so well. Come to think of it, we should just move the Hell out of this greedy country and invite 20 foreigners to move in.
45 posted on 07/24/2003 6:46:42 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican (Helping Mexicans invade America is TREASON!)
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To: Texas_Dawg
The cheapest price part of your post says otherwise. In posts on other threads you have argued against tariffs because you can get stuff cheaper without them here you are arguing for immigration to get teh cheapest price. That is asking for Federal subsidy for you so you do not have to work harder to get the same things.
46 posted on 07/24/2003 6:49:30 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Texas_Dawg
I would never, ever, ever sit around and demand that the federal government protect my salary with other Americans' money.

What would you do if you had kids to feed and could not get a job? Would you accept food stamps and other government help? Or would you sacrifice your children for the free market idea?

47 posted on 07/24/2003 6:49:47 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Willie Green
For the life of me I can never figure out why folks even bother replying to Texas_Dawg and his/her ilk. It's pretty obvious they are Pro-Outsourcing, and even though they don't come right out and admit it, Pro-Illegal immigrant. Sounds just like a Lib in RINO clothing, only they like to use "Socialist" instead of "Racist". Americans watch out for each other, not how much money they can make and who they can screw in the process of making that extra buck.
48 posted on 07/24/2003 6:56:07 AM PDT by JustAnAmerican
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To: JustAnAmerican
Americans watch out for each other, not how much money they can make and who they can screw in the process of making that extra buck.

Unless, of course, you're a lawyer or a free traitor or other lower form of life

49 posted on 07/24/2003 7:08:45 AM PDT by clamper1797 (Conservative by nature ... Republican in Spirit ... Patriot by Heart ... and Anti Liberal BY GOD)
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To: JustAnAmerican
I agree. Debating with those that resort to just assorted name calling means the debate is over.
50 posted on 07/24/2003 7:11:43 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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