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Iranian Alert -- August 10, 2003 -- LIVE THREAD PING LIST
The Iranian Student Movement Up To The Minute Reports ^ | 8.10.2003 | DoctorZin

Posted on 08/10/2003 12:04:07 AM PDT by DoctorZIn

The regime is working hard to keep the news about the protest movment in Iran from being reported.

From jamming satellite broadcasts, to prohibiting news reporters from covering any demonstrations to shutting down all cell phones and even hiring foreign security to control the population, the regime is doing everything in its power to keep the popular movement from expressing its demand for an end of the regime.

These efforts by the regime, while successful in the short term, do not resolve the fundamental reasons why this regime is crumbling from within.

Iran is a country ready for a regime change. If you follow this thread you will witness, I believe, the transformation of a nation. This daily thread provides a central place where those interested in the events in Iran can find the best news and commentary.

Please continue to join us here, post your news stories and comments to this thread.

Thanks for all the help.

DoctorZin


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: iran; iranianalert; protests; studentmovement
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1 posted on 08/10/2003 12:04:07 AM PDT by DoctorZIn
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; ...
Join Us at the Iranian Alert -- August 10, 2003 -- LIVE THREAD PING LIST

Live Thread Ping List | 8.10.2003 | DoctorZin

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail me”

2 posted on 08/10/2003 12:05:21 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Iran: The Mystery Meeting

NEWSWEEK

Aug. 18 issue — Why were two top Pentagon experts on Iran meeting with a notorious character from the Iran-contra scandal? DOD’s answer: it was by accident—both times. In high-summer Washington, though, conspiracy theories abound.

ONE SOURCE FAMILIAR with administration infighting on Iran says that neocons in the Defense Department don’t trust “appeasers” at State and the CIA to give unbiased intelligence about Tehran. And because the hard-line ayatollahs who dominate Iran’s security agencies support terrorism—including Al Qaeda—these DOD hawks view State’s hopes of someday negotiating a new relationship with Iran as delusional. So, the conspiracy theory runs, they reach out to people like Iranian businessman Manucher Ghorbanifar for an alternative view of what’s going on in Tehran.

The reality, senior DOD officials assert, is that when Pentagon experts Harold Rhode and Larry Franklin met with a handful of Iranians in Italy more than a year ago—the Iranians had offered, through an American intermediary, to give the United States information on terrorism—the DOD pair were startled to find Ghorbanifar there and argued against his remaining. (The CIA once labeled Ghorbanifar “an intelligence fabricator and nuisance.”) Then, one of the DOD pair “ran into” Ghorbanifar again in Paris this summer. End of story, they say. “There is no Defense Department back-channel on Iran,” a senior official insisted. The Italy meetings were authorized by the White House, say officials, though the “unscheduled” Paris session was not.

—Mark Hosenball and John Barry

http://www.msnbc.com/news/950458.asp
3 posted on 08/10/2003 12:17:15 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; ...
Iran: The Mystery Meeting

NEWSWEEK 8.17.2003 Issue

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/961369/posts?page=3#3

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail me”
4 posted on 08/10/2003 12:19:20 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
The reality, senior DOD officials assert, is that when Pentagon experts Harold Rhode and Larry Franklin met with a handful of Iranians in Italy more than a year ago—the Iranians had offered, through an American intermediary, to give the United States information on terrorism—the DOD pair were startled to find Ghorbanifar there and argued against his remaining. (The CIA once labeled Ghorbanifar “an intelligence fabricator and nuisance.”) Then, one of the DOD pair “ran into” Ghorbanifar again in Paris this summer. End of story, they say.

So what's the deal? Is Newsweek claiming that that the USA is cooperating with terrorists? Did we?
5 posted on 08/10/2003 12:26:58 AM PDT by Pro-Bush (Circumstances rule destiny)
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To: DoctorZIn
Dinner With the Sayyids

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
NYTIMES OP-ED COLUMNIST 8.10.2003

BAGHDAD, Iraq

The best thing about being in Baghdad these days is that you just never know who's going to show up for dinner.

Take last Wednesday night. I was invited to interview a rising progressive Iraqi Shiite cleric, Sayyid Iyad Jamaleddine, at his home on the banks of the Tigris. It was the most exciting conversation I've had on three trips to postwar Iraq. I listened to Mr. Jamaleddine eloquently advocate separation of mosque and state and lay out a broad, liberal agenda for Iraq's majority Shiites. As we sat down for a meal of Iraqi fish and flat bread, he introduced me to a small, black-turbaned cleric who was staying as his houseguest.

"Mr. Friedman, this is Sayyid Hussein Khomeini" — the grandson of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the founder of Iran's Islamic revolution.

Mr. Khomeini told me he had left the Iranian spiritual center of Qum to meet with scholars in the Iraqi Shiite spiritual centers of Karbala and Najaf. He, too, is a progressive, he explained, and he intends to use the freedom that the U.S. invasion has created in Iraq to press for real democratic reform in Iran. Now I understand why his grandfather once threw him in jail for a week. He has Ayatollah Khomeini's fiery eyes and steely determination, but the soul of a Muslim liberal.

The 46-year-old Mr. Khomeini said he's currently advocating a national referendum in Iran to revoke the absolute religious and political powers that have been grabbed by Iran's clergy. But in other interviews here, he was quoted as saying that Iran's hard-line clerical rulers were "the world's worst dictatorship," who have been exploiting his grandfather's name and the name of Islam "to continue their tyrannical rule." He and Mr. Jamaleddine told me their first objective was to open Shiite seminaries and schools in Iraq to teach their ideas to the young generation.

Ladies and gentlemen, I have no idea whether these are the only two liberal Shiite clerics in Iraq. People tell me they definitely are not. Either way, their willingness to express their ideas publicly is hugely important. It is, for my money, the most important reason we fought this war: If the West is going to avoid a war of armies with Islam, there has to be a war of ideas within Islam. The progressives have to take on both the religious totalitarians, like Osama bin Laden, and the secular totalitarians who exploit Islam as a cover, like Saddam Hussein. We cannot defeat their extremists, only they can. This war of ideas needs two things: a secure space for people to tell the truth and people with the courage to tell it. That's what these two young clerics represent, at least in potential.

Mr. Jamaleddine, age 42, grew up in Iraq, sought exile in Iran after one of Saddam's anti-Shiite crackdowns, tasted the harshness of the Iranian Islamic revolution firsthand, moved to Dubai, and then returned to Iraq as soon as Saddam fell. Here is a brief sampler of what he has been advocating:

On religion and state: "We want a secular constitution. That is the most important point. If we write a secular constitution and separate religion from state, that would be the end of despotism and it would liberate religion as well as the human being. . . . The Islamic religion has been hijacked for 14 centuries by the hands of the state. The state dominated religion, not the other way around. It used religion for its own ends. Tyrants ruled this nation for 14 centuries and they covered their tyranny with the cloak of religion. . . . When I called for secularism in Nasiriya (in the first postwar gathering of Iraqi leaders), they started saying things against me. But last week I had some calls from Qum, thanking me for presenting this thesis and saying, `We understand what you are calling for, but we cannot say so publicly.'

"Secularism is not blasphemy. I am a Muslim. I am devoted to my religion. I want to get it back from the state and that is why I want a secular state. . . . When young people come to religion, not because the state orders them to but because they feel it themselves in their hearts, it actually increases religious devotion. . . . The problem of the Middle East cannot be solved unless all the states in the area become secular. . . . I call for opening the door for Ijtihad [reinterpretation of the Koran in light of changing circumstances]. The Koran is a book to be interpreted [by] each age. Each epoch should not be tied to interpretations from 1,000 years ago. We should be open to interpretations based on new and changing times."

How will he deal with opposition to such ideas from Iraq's neighbors?

"The neighboring countries are all tyrannical countries and they are wary of a modern, liberal Iraq. . . . That is why they work to foil the U.S. presence. . . . If the U.S. wants to help Iraqis, it must help them the way it helped Germany and Japan, because to help Iraq is really to help 1.3 billion Muslims. Iraq will teach these values to the entire Islamic world. Because Iraq has both Sunnis and Shiites, and it has Arabs, Kurds and Turkmen. . . . If it succeeds here it can succeed elsewhere. But to succeed you also need to satisfy people's basic needs: jobs and electricity. If people are hungry, they will be easily recruited by the extremists. If they are well fed and employed, they will be receptive to good ideas. . . . The failure of this experiment in Iraq would mean success for all despots in the Arab and Islamic world. [That is why] this is a challenge that America must accept and take all the way."

Mr. Jamaleddine, Mr. Khomeini; these are real spiritual leaders here. But if the U.S. does not create a secure environment and stable economy in Iraq, their voices will never get through. If we do, though — wow. To the rest of the Arab world, I would simply say: Guess who's coming to dinner.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/10/opinion/10FRIE.html
6 posted on 08/10/2003 12:27:48 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
'There is no Defense Department back-channel on Iran,' a senior official insisted.

Er, right. OK. Sure.

7 posted on 08/10/2003 12:30:25 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; ...
Dinner With the Sayyids (Sayyid Hussein Khomeini)

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
NYTIMES OP-ED COLUMNIST 8.10.2003

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/961369/posts?page=6#6

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail me”
8 posted on 08/10/2003 12:30:48 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Mr. Jamaleddine, age 42, grew up in Iraq, sought exile in Iran after one of Saddam's anti-Shiite crackdowns, tasted the harshness of the Iranian Islamic revolution firsthand, moved to Dubai, and then returned to Iraq as soon as Saddam fell. Here is a brief sampler of what he has been advocating: On religion and state: "We want a secular constitution. That is the most important point. If we write a secular constitution and separate religion from state, that would be the end of despotism and it would liberate religion as well as the human being. . . .

Seperating religion from state is very important in order to establish a true Democracy.
9 posted on 08/10/2003 12:31:56 AM PDT by Pro-Bush (Circumstances rule destiny)
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To: Pro-Bush
Is Newsweek claiming that that the USA is cooperating with terrorists? Did we?

All this goes back to the 1980s. The Iran/Conra affair. So many unanswered questions. But whatever secret deals were going on, the emnity toward Iran persisted at the same time. Thus, the US was also arming Sadaam Hussein to make war on the Iranians.

10 posted on 08/10/2003 12:32:46 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: All
Make Iran Next, Says Ayatollah's Grandson

August 10, 2003
The Observer
Jamie Wilson

Sayyid Hussein Khomeini is sitting cross-legged on a sofa inside a garish palm-fringed mansion nestled on the banks of the Tigris. It is the very heart of American-occupied Baghdad, not the first place that you might look for the grandson of Ayatollah Khomeini. The late Iranian leader built his Islamic revolution on a deep hatred of everything associated with the Stars and Stripes.

But then very little about the younger Khomeini is quite what might be expected.

'American liberty and freedom is the best freedom in the world,' he said, puffing on a cigarette and sipping a glass of sweet tea. 'The freedom for the individual that is written into the American Constitution you do not see in such concentration in any other constitution in the world. The Americans are here in Iraq, so freedom is here too.'

It is an extraordinary statement from a man whose grandfather labelled the US 'the Great Satan', but what Khomeini has to say about the current situation in Iran is even more radical: 'Iranians need freedom now, and if they can only achieve it with American interference I think they would welcome it. As an Iranian, I would welcome it.'

Not surprisingly, Khomeini, 45, has caused something of a stir in Baghdad, with the US media beating a path to the door of the house where he is staying.

According to his armed bodyguards, the luxurious house has been taken over by an Iraqi cleric, who shares Khomeini's view that religion and state should be separated. It used to belong to Izzat Ibrahim, vice-chairman of the deposed Revolutionary Command Council and one of Saddam Hussein's closest advisers. The King of Clubs on the list of most wanted Baathists, Ibrahim remains at large, although he is unlikely to return to evict the current tenants. There is, however, plenty to remind the visitor of the previous owner. A black Rolls-Royce with a golden grill is gathering dust in the drive, while the sitting room, with its three gold-trim sofas, is also home to a couple of enormous glass tanks containing dozens of tropical fish and several cages of canaries, chirping away merrily.

Wearing a black turban - a piece of clothing that marks him out as a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad - Khomeini dismisses as 'nonsense' a question about whether his grandfather would approve of his support for the Americans. 'He is not here, and in this case we cannot predict what position he would take,' he said.

As for Iraqi resistance to the US occupying forces - or liberators as Khomeini insists on calling them - in his opinion there is none.

'The persons who are carrying out the attacks have been paid previously to attack the US and the Americans are just in a position of defending themselves,' he said.

So what is a man whose grandfather cemented the Islamic theocracy in Iran by exploiting the 1979 US Embassy hostage crisis doing espousing views that could have come straight from an American foreign policy briefing or have been written by the press office of the Coalition Provisional Authority situated in the former presidential palace a couple of miles down the road?

Exactly how close Khomeini's ties are with the US is not clear, but the cleric has met officials from the CPA on several occasions. 'He's my favourite Khomeini!', one senior US official joked at a dinner the other night. A spokesman said that they found his ideas about the separation of religion and state 'interesting'.

Although he does not command a wide following, the very fact of who he is could in time make him a significant player, while any voice helping to dilute calls from some Iraqi Shia leaders for a system of clerical rule in Iraq will be welcomed with open arms by the Americans.

But the US might just have bigger plans for Khomeini. He spent 14 years of his life in Iraq, between 1964 and 1979, while his grandfather was plotting the Islamic revolution and conducting a campaign of snapping at the heels of the Shah from the holy city of Najaf. Listening to his grandson condemning the current situation in Tehran, it is difficult not to get a sense that perhaps history is repeating itself.

The Bush administration, which includes Iran in its diminishing axis of evil, has repeatedly accused the country of supporting terrorist groups and seeking to acquire nuclear weapons. But apart from general agreement that a change of government in Iran would be a good thing, there is no broad consensus within the administration about how best to achieve that aim. It is two years since the State Department began drafting a national security presidential directive on Iran, but the document remains unfinished.

Doves in Colin Powell's State Department are said to favour increased dialogue with potential reformers in the country, while Donald Rumsfeld's Pentagon is thought to be intent on pursuing aggressive destabilisation tactics towards Tehran.

Whatever way the administration decides to play it, Khomeini could be useful to both sides.

Asked when he thought he might return to Iran, Khomeini replied 'Inshallah' - It is God's will.

But some observers might argue that it is just as likely to be the Pentagon's.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1015689,00.html
11 posted on 08/10/2003 1:12:25 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: BlackVeil; DoctorZIn
Confirmation is right over here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36669-2003Aug8.html
12 posted on 08/10/2003 1:31:21 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: DoctorZIn
Iran not an easy target for regime change
By Nadia Jaber, Staff Reporter | 10-08-2003

It seems that the United States has already made strategic plans to deal with regime change in Iran, the way it has done with Saddam Hussain's regime in Iraq.

The U.S. invaded Iraq under the slogan of finding weapons of mass destruction.....

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=94789
13 posted on 08/10/2003 1:32:55 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: DoctorZIn; nuconvert
Ministry drawing up a draft on journalists' security

Sunday, August 10, 2003 - ©2003 IranMania.com

Tehran, Aug 9, IRNA -- Minister of Culture and Islamic Guidance Ahmad Masjed Jamei here on Saturday said that the culture ministry is currently involved in drawing ....

http://www.iranmania.com/News/ArticleView/Default.asp?NewsCode=17397&NewsKind=CurrentAffairs
14 posted on 08/10/2003 1:34:21 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: F14 Pilot
Gulf News is a pro regime publication as the quotes from your post, "Iran not an easy target for regime change," illustrates .

...Most importantly, the whole world, including the Americans, is watching the poor performance of the coalition in post-Saddam Iraq.

The Americans should ask themselves now how to get out of the Iraqi quagmire instead of indulging themselves into the deeper one of Iran...
15 posted on 08/10/2003 1:42:50 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: All
More photos of the Iranian journalists on strike.

http://news.gooya.com/2003/08/09/0908-k-14.php
16 posted on 08/10/2003 1:44:42 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Yes, But it is good to know who is defending the worst regime of the world.
Moreover, It is good for us to know who enemy or friend is.
17 posted on 08/10/2003 1:48:26 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: DoctorZIn
Bush Faces Many Obstacles on Iran, North Korea

August 10, 2003
The Associated Press
Tom Raum

The Bush administration's use of discredited intelligence on Iraqi weapons may complicate America's ability to deal with more tangible nuclear dangers across the Middle East and in Asia.

The recent nuclear activity by North Korea and Iran and the broader issue of keeping mass-killing weapons away from terrorists loom as the biggest foreign policy challenges after the Iraq war.

Yet administration critics suggest President Bush's hand is weakened by credibility issues over assertions before the war about Iraq's nuclear and other weapons capabilities.

"What happens now when we need to rally the world about the weapons programs in North Korea and Iran? How likely are they to believe the detail of what we present to them?" asks Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware, senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.

The administration is pinning its hopes on diplomacy as the way to contain Iranian and North Korean nuclear ambitions. The United States also is looking toward the same international weapons inspection apparatus that it spurned in Iraq.

The issue is not only whether the two remaining nations in Bush's "axis of evil" are building atomic bombs, but also how their neighbors would react.

For instance, North Korea's testing of a nuclear device might persuade Japan to quickly go nuclear itself, arms-control experts suggest. A nuclear Japan, in turn, might force China to increase its arsenal. That could put pressure on Taiwan to seek such weapons.

A nuclear Iran, meanwhile, could make it harder to establish pro-American governments in neighboring Iraq and Afghanistan.

Tehran's possession of the bomb could trigger an arms race between Iran and Israel. Israel might feel compelled to try to take out an Iranian nuclear plant -- as it did an Iraqi facility in 1981.

Israel has never confirmed being a nuclear power, but it is widely believed to have as many as 100 to 200 such weapons.

Then there are nuclear club members India and Pakistan.

"India has dozens of nuclear weapons and is actively pursuing a long-range missile program to enable them to target not simply Pakistan but also China," said John Pike, a military analyst with GlobalSecurity.org, a consulting group based in Arlington, Va.

"Pakistan's nuclear program and missile program has basically been developed in close concert with Iran and North Korea. You might even think of it as one program doing business at three locations," he added.

Daryl Kimball, executive director of the Arms Control Association, said Pakistan and India "are on a hair trigger that is even finer and shorter than the one that existed between the United States and the Soviet Union during the Cold War."

"Yet there has been very little attention focused by U.S. policy-makers or the international community on a systematic, comprehensive approach to reducing risks in that region," Kimball said.

Pakistan's president, Pervez Musharraf, is an important ally in the U.S.-led fight against terrorism. That makes it harder for the administration to press its accusations that Pakistan helped North Korea's nuclear-arms program in return for missile parts.

Bush, vacationing this month in Texas, is hoping that diplomacy and pressure from neighboring powers will help defuse the nuclear threats in both Iran and North Korea.

The best course on Iran is "to convince others to join us in a clear declaration that the development of a nuclear weapon is not in their interests," Bush said.

As to North Korea, Bush hopes its agreement to meet for six-nation talks on its nuclear programs will lead to the country's renunciation of nuclear weaponry.

"We are making progress," national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said late last week. "It's a tough regime to deal with. ... But we're fairly sanguine that if you're going to get this done, it's going to have to be in coordination with other states."

But uncertainties abound.

North Korea last week balked at the makeup of the U.S. delegation to the six-nation talks. Iranian President Mohammad Khatami pledged not to give up a nuclear program he insisted was designed to produce electrical energy, not atomic bombs.

Whereas the first nuclear powers were major players on the world stage -- the United States, the Soviet Union, Britain, France and China -- the emerging nuclear powers are poorer, generally less stable governments.

That fact, and the chance that nuclear materials could wind up in the hands of terrorist groups, worries arms-control experts and administration officials.

Washington's hope is "that somehow diplomatically we can work our way through this issue," Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recently told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

"The notion or the thought" that nuclear material "could be proliferated to other countries could change our security environment in a not-so-nice a way," Myers said.


EDITOR'S NOTE -- Tom Raum has covered Washington for The Associated Press since 1973, including five presidencies.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/08/09/national1234EDT0511.DTL
18 posted on 08/10/2003 1:49:56 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; ...
Bush Faces Many Obstacles on Iran, North Korea

August 10, 2003
The Associated Press
Tom Raum

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/961369/posts?page=18#18

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail me”
19 posted on 08/10/2003 1:50:57 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn; F14 Pilot
Thank you for the article, F14, and I agree that it is good to know all opinions.
20 posted on 08/10/2003 2:09:16 AM PDT by BlackVeil
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To: BlackVeil; dixiechick2000; Eala; nuconvert
We took enemies as allies, and friends as enemies.
Watch what we do to Pakistan, Saudia, Jordan, and even S. Korea.
But what about Iran, We took them as Enemies, but in fact the Iranian people are more friendly to us than people of pakistan or Saudia.
That is a fact that we have to care about in war against bad parts of the world...
21 posted on 08/10/2003 2:16:40 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: F14 Pilot
"We support the aspirations of those who desire freedom in Iran," the president said,"

As long as the President keeps saying this, and acting toward this goal, I don't care who else is meeting with whom right now.
Sounds like the CIA advise might be worth following in this case. Drop this Ghorbanifar like a hot potatoe.
22 posted on 08/10/2003 4:09:37 AM PDT by nuconvert
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To: BlackVeil; Pro-Bush
The enemy of my enemy is my friend?
23 posted on 08/10/2003 4:54:08 AM PDT by DollyCali (Authenticity: To have Arrived !)
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To: DollyCali
Good to know that Enemies are ALLIED now!
24 posted on 08/10/2003 5:45:08 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: F14 Pilot
It seems that the United States has already made strategic plans to deal with regime change in Iran, the way it has done with Saddam Hussain's regime in Iraq.

I think the US would be remiss if it did not have a number of plans, different ways, to "deal with [help bring about?] regime change in Iran." (And they might even include an approach similar to the one for Iraq.) But having them drafted is different from executing them.

Although the article is probably correct in that a replay of Iraq would play out significantly differently in Iran, there seemed a bit of "Baghdad Bob" in this article.

25 posted on 08/10/2003 8:09:19 AM PDT by Eala
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To: Pro-Bush
Seperating religion from state is very important in order to establish a true Democracy.

True, but isn't a constitutional democratic republic better than a true democracy?

26 posted on 08/10/2003 8:11:16 AM PDT by Eala
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To: F14 Pilot
...It is good for us to know who enemy or friend is....

Of course.
27 posted on 08/10/2003 8:19:02 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Hey Doc, could you remove me from the ping list? Thanks.
28 posted on 08/10/2003 8:41:11 AM PDT by Those_Crazy_Liberals (Ronaldus Magnus he's our man . . . If he can't do it, no one can.)
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To: Eala
...isn't a constitutional democratic republic better than a true democracy? ...

Even though I had my problems with the article you referenced, I think the term "true democracy" does not necessarily mean mob rule as we might assume.

I think the term "true democracy" is used by many in the middle-east to remind the reader that Iran's democracy is not a "real" or "true" democracy. People cannot choose who their candidates are, they must be vetted by unelected mullah's.

I believe many in Iran want a constitutional democracy based on the rule of law.
29 posted on 08/10/2003 8:48:11 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Thanks for the clarification.
30 posted on 08/10/2003 8:49:24 AM PDT by Eala
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To: DoctorZIn
N. Korea, Iran Paradox to Anti-war Crowd

August 10, 2003
San Antonio Express-News
Jonathan Gurwitz

The "axis of evil" is making a comeback. At least part of it is. President Bush's use of the appellation in his first State of the Union address to describe the commonality of threats to the international community emanating from Iraq, Iran and North Korea earned him widespread scorn.

Perhaps it was the concept of an axis, dismissed because the three countries are allegedly too dissimilar, or the idea of evil, which is evidently passé in the 21st century.

In an interesting development since the war to depose the government of Saddam Hussein, Iran and North Korea have emerged as consensus "true threats" to international security.

Their programs to develop weapons of mass destruction — in contrast to those in Iraq — and cooperation to enhance each other's weapons and ballistic missile technology pose a real danger to the international community.

The idea that Iraq was and is distracting the United States from these "real" threats has become a familiar hobbyhorse of Bush administration critics, especially those who happen to be seeking the Democratic presidential nomination.

The "Iran and North Korea are for real" theory, however, presents a few paradoxes for the detractors of U.S. policy in Iraq.

The faulty, inflated intelligence the Bush administration allegedly used to hype the war in Iraq is the same intelligence that says the crazed mullahs in Iran will shortly be able to mount nuclear warheads on missiles that can threaten U.S. forces and allies throughout the Middle East.

And it's the same intelligence that asserts the North Korean kleptocracy is reprocessing spent nuclear fuel to create nuclear weapons for its own missiles that can hit not only South Korea and Japan, but also the West Coast of the United States.

Proponents of this theory also suggest that if the United States weren't saddled with the responsibility of restoring order in Iraq and rebuilding it, 150,000 U.S. troops would be available for use against — if not an axis of evil — an alliance of two viably offensive nations with nuclear-tipped, ballistic missiles.

Maybe the critics who guffawed at the concept of an axis of evil will admit Bush was, at the very least, two-thirds correct.

More likely, if we ever reach a point where military action against Iran or North Korea becomes necessary, the wonks now talking about the "real" threat from those countries will resort to the same rhetorical strategies used to oppose the termination of Saddam's government.

Democrats who complained that the Bush administration was asleep at the wheel and ignored intelligence warnings of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks simultaneously charge that the president cooked the books on Iraq and hyped the threat from the axis of evil, except where Iran and North Korea are now concerned.

The noted liberal commentator Christopher Hitchens, no fan of Bush, commented on the tortured conspiracy theories used to discredit the liberation of Iraq in a recent column in Slate:

"To believe that the Saddam regime had nothing to hide is to believe that he threw out the U.N. inspectors in 1998 and then said to himself: 'Great. Now I can get on with my dream of unilaterally disarming Iraq!' Who can be such a fool as to believe any such thing? There are enough kind-hearted and soft-headed people around who don't recognize evil even when it is glaring them brazenly in the face."

Hitchens also quotes a recent article in the Washington Post written by Rolf Ekeus, chairman of the United Nations Special Commission on Iraq from 1991 to 1997, now chairman of the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute. On the failure thus far to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Ekeus wrote:

"Detractors of Bush and Blair have tried to make political capital of the presumed discrepancy between the top-level assurances about Iraq's possession of chemical weapons (and other WMD) and the inability of invading forces to find such stocks. The criticism is a distortion and trivialization of a major threat to international peace and security.

"Researchers, engineers, know-how, precursors, batch production techniques and testing is what constituted Iraq's chemical threat — its chemical weapon. The rather bizarre political focus on the search for rusting drums and pieces of munitions containing low-quality chemicals has tended to distort the important question of WMD in Iraq and exposed the American and British administrations to unjustified criticism."

The philosopher Soren Kirkegaard wrote that "life must be lived forward, but it can only be understood backward." If a military option ever becomes a necessity in dealing with a nuclear-armed Iran or North Korea, then the value of our pre-emptive policy in Iraq may become fully appreciated.

If, on the other hand, the United States is ever unfortunate enough to suffer an attack by weapons of mass destruction, a 9-11 or Pearl Harbor-type assault of monstrous proportions, then history will judge that our leaders failed to act decisively enough to establish a sufficient deterrent to pre-empt such an attack.

http://news.mysanantonio.com/story.cfm?xla=saen&xlb=1235&xlc=1036653&xld=1235
31 posted on 08/10/2003 9:02:58 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; Pan_Yans Wife; fat city; freedom44; Tamsey; Grampa Dave; PhiKapMom; ...
N. Korea, Iran Paradox to Anti-war Crowd

August 10, 2003
San Antonio Express-News
Jonathan Gurwitz

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/961369/posts?page=31#31

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail me”
32 posted on 08/10/2003 9:23:12 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: Those_Crazy_Liberals
For those on my ping lists.

If you would prefer a single daily ping, please freepmail mail me.

If you prefer to see all the daily breaking new, let me know by freepmail and I will be happy to add you to that list.

Please DO NOT post to the thread these requests.
It clutters up the thread.

Thanks,

DoctorZin
33 posted on 08/10/2003 9:28:32 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: All
Court suspends provincial weekly for second time

Qazvin, Aug 9, IRNA --

A press court in this northwestern Iranian city has closed down a provincial weekly for the second time on charges of 'promoting depravity and publishing lies', the court's head said Saturday.

Fereydoun Parvinian told IRNA that the court had banned Nameh-ye Qazvin (Letter of Qazvin) from printing until further notice.

The first court hearing at the presence of press jury will be held soon to probe into the weekly's offenses, he added.

The weekly's head, Ali Shahrouzi, said that Nameh-ye Qazvin had been closed down for the second time only after publishing its second issue since the first ban.

He hoped that 'the court will take steps to lift the suspension'.

A senior official of the Ministry of Culture and Islamic Guidance criticized the closure, while acknowledging that the publication had breached the law in some way.

"The fact that a certain publication is closed down on the brink of 'Journalists Day' after printing only its second issue ... is not very favorable," Mohammad Hossein Pilevari said.

The official said that his office's talks with the Justice Department and the press court to retract the ruling had led to no breakthrough.

The press court lifted the temporary ban on Nameh-ye Qazvin in January after suspending it on charges of promoting 'depravity' and discrediting clerics.

The weekly had been slapped with paying three-million-rial (375 US dollars) in cash fine. It had remained closed since last August after the Justice Department of Qazvin province found it with printing 'insulting materials and inciting public opinion'.

Shahrouzi had also been accused of 'encouraging the youth to Western depravity in its articles which contradict moral decency' as well as 'spreading lies and distorting historical facts, spoiling reputation of the country's political and religious figures and undermining state organizations'.

In January, the press court closed down another weekly Taban-e Qazvin on libel charges and lifted the ban shortly afterwards.

BH/AH/210
End

http://www.irna.ir/en/tnews/030810173458.etn08.shtml
34 posted on 08/10/2003 9:36:09 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: All
EU must press Iran on nukes

Chicago Tribune
Published August 10, 2003

The evidence that Iran is pursuing a nuclear weapons program grows clearer by the day. Experts disagree on details, but the consensus is that it's only a matter of a few years at most before Iran should have that capability, if nothing is done to stop it.

The full and frightening scope of the Iranian effort was detailed in the Los Angeles Times last week. The newspaper found that Iran has a secret, widespread, sophisticated program to buy or develop the technology to build a nuclear weapon.

Allowing Iran to build a bomb cannot be tolerated, as President Bush has said. A country that supports terrorism on a wide scale and brutally represses its people at home cannot be allowed to acquire or build the ultimate weapon. At the same time, however, diplomatic options to persuade Iran to halt its program are not plentiful.

Several weeks ago Mohamed ElBaradei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency, went to Tehran to push the Iranian government to sign an expanded protocol to the nuclear nonproliferation treaty. That would have allowed much tighter supervision of the Iranian nuclear program, including short-notice inspections at undeclared sites. There have been mixed signals from Iran about its willingness to sign, but so far the mullahs haven't budged.

The IAEA and the Bush administration must keep the pressure on Iran. But it is also time for Europe to move more aggressively to convince Iran to stop its nuclear program.

The EU, as a major trading partner of Iran, has far better relations with Iran and thus more leverage than the U.S. in some ways.

In the 1990s, European countries favored a softer approach towards Tehran, which was intended to foster reform-minded Iranian politicians like President Mohammad Khatami. But there's evidence that Europe is slowly concluding that the strategy isn't working to arrest Iran's nuclear ambitions. Khatami has defended Iran's right to build nuclear reactors, and insists that his country's efforts are focused on civilian application only.

Those assertions are not convincing, because Iranian leaders have hidden their nuclear weapons efforts for more than a decade and have failed to answer a basic question. Why, in a country rich with oil and natural gas, does Iran need nuclear power?

Partly in response to Iran's stonewalling on its nuclear arms programs, the European Union recently suspended negotiations on a new trade agreement with Iran. The EU is now telling Iran that more favorable trade terms with its biggest trading partner depend on Iran's unconditional signing of the IAEA's additional protocol. Furthermore, the EU agreed in June on a new foreign policy strategy on weapons of mass destruction that didn't rule out "coercive measures," including military action, to prevent states from developing them.

The EU's change of strategy is wise and welcome. But it must now back its words with action.

Several weeks ago, the IAEA scolded Iran for hiding its efforts to build nuclear facilities and import nuclear materials that could be used to construct an atomic weapon. Next month, the IAEA is expected to issue a second report on Iran's nuclear program. It could then refer the issue to the UN Security Council, which could impose trade sanctions or other punishments. It is crucial that the EU, along with the U.S. and the UN, present a united front against Iran's nuclear weapons programs. Such a front has the best chance of swaying the mullahs, especially if it is led by some of their most important trading partners--France, Germany and Italy.

The EU also should help the United States convince Russia to slow down, if not stop, its help in building a nuclear reactor at Bushehr--due to be operational by next year--unless the Iranians agree to stringent new controls.

The world must show Iran how much it risks--in economic sanctions and possible military action--if it continues in its headlong quest for nuclear weapons.

Copyright © 2003, Chicago Tribune

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-0308100317aug10,1,5674932.story?coll=chi-newsopinion-hed
35 posted on 08/10/2003 9:44:01 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn; Eala; nuconvert; dixiechick2000
Iran welcomes Ivanov's proposal

Tehran, Aug 10 - Iran supports Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov's proposal to hold a working meeting on the Caspian problem between the foreign ministers of the five coastal states, Iran's special representative for Caspian Sea affairs Mehdi Safari said on Saturday.

He said that this meeting will help step up the solution of the existing problems.

The working group, including representatives of all Caspian states, is doing its best to solve the Caspian problem, he added.

Safari stressed that the sides continue their efforts to determine the Caspian Sea legal status.

"Work is going because the document should take into account the interests of all sides," the Iranian diplomat said.

He pointed out that the working group succeeded in preparing a document on the environmental protection of the sea.

The document is expected to be signed in Tehran at the end of October, Safari said.

http://www.iribnews.com/Full_en.asp?news_id=185503&n=33
36 posted on 08/10/2003 9:49:23 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: DoctorZIn; dixiechick2000; Eala; RaceBannon; Pokey78; freedom44; piasa; AdmSmith; nuconvert
Iran Radio Says 110 Have Died Crossing Into Iraq

Sun August 10, 2003 08:54 AM ET

TEHRAN (Reuters) - More than 100 people have been killed as they tried to cross Iran's heavily mined border to visit holy sites in Iraq over the last seven weeks, Iranian state radio reported Sunday.
Government officials have repeatedly urged Iranians in recent weeks not to travel to visit Shi'ite Muslim shrines in Iraq, citing security concerns.

"In the past 45 days about 110 bodies of people who illegally crossed the border to visit Iraqi holy sites have been handed back to Iran," state radio quoted Javad Salari, head of the coroner's office in the western city of Ilam, as saying.

He did not say whether all the dead were killed by mines.

Last week a senior police official was quoted as saying 42,000 people had been turned back from the Iran-Iraq border in the past three months while trying to cross.

He said Iranian pilgrims were at risk from land mines, heat exhaustion and general lack of security in Iraq.

Government officials could not immediately be reached to confirm the high death toll given in the radio report.

Thousands of Iraqi refugees, many of whom fled to Iran during former President Saddam Hussein's brutal repression of the uprising by Iraqi Shi'ites in the wake of the 1991 Gulf War, have also been trying to return home in recent weeks.

The Iran-Iraq border area remains heavily mined due to the 1980-1988 war between the two countries.

http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3251609
37 posted on 08/10/2003 9:53:05 AM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: DoctorZIn
Thanks Doc!
38 posted on 08/10/2003 9:57:49 AM PDT by Those_Crazy_Liberals (Ronaldus Magnus he's our man . . . If he can't do it, no one can.)
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To: All
Iran Minister Takes on Conservatives

ALI AKBAR DAREINI
Associated Press
Posted on Sun, Aug. 10, 2003

TEHRAN, Iran - Iran's reformist interior minister ordered the closure of offices set up by hard-liners to screen candidates for next year's legislative elections.

Members of the hard-line Guardian Council have vowed to reject reformist candidates who seek major changes, and having the offices would allow the council to learn the views of would-be candidates.

Abdolvahed Mousavi Lari told provincial governors to shut down the supervisory offices of the Guardian Council throughout the country, the government-run daily Iran reported Sunday. The council has quietly been establishing the candidate review offices in recent months.

"Activities of the supervising offices of the Guardian Council are a violation of the law because they have not been approved by the Supreme Administrative Council nor the Parliament," Lari told the paper a day earlier. "There is no legal basis for such offices."

Interior Ministry spokesman Jahanbakhsh Khanjani, contacted by The Associated Press on Sunday, confirmed the report. The elections are scheduled for February.

The hard-line Guardian Council and the Interior Ministry in the elected administration of the reformist President Mohammad Khatami, responsible for holding the elections, have previously had a tug-of-war over the list of candidates for elections.

Iran has for years been embroiled in a power struggle between elected reformers who support Khatami's program of peaceful democratic reforms and hard-liners who resist them through the powerful but unelected bodies they control, including the Guardian Council.

Since Khatami took office in 1997, hard-liners have used their control of unelected bodies such as the Guardian Council and the judiciary to block all reform legislation, shut down more than 90 liberal publications and detain dozens of pro-reform activists and writers.

http://www.belleville.com/mld/newsdemocrat/6503316.htm
39 posted on 08/10/2003 11:48:51 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: All
Iran’s Trump Card

By Azizuddin El-Kaissouni
Staff writer – IslamOnline
10/08/2003

Iran’s recent admission that it is holding members of al-Qaeda seems to have sparked a flurry of diplomatic activity.

The statement, made by the Islamic Republic’s Intelligence Minister Ali Yunesi on July 23 2003, announced that Iran was holding a “fair” number of al-Qaeda operatives that had entered Iran shortly after the fall of the Taliban regime in neighboring Afghanistan.

Mr. Yunesi added that a number of the detainees had since been expelled, while others were extradited to their countries of origin.

Speculation is rife in the media as to the identities of the militants in question, with some suggesting that no less a personage than Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, Bin Laden’s chief lieutenant, is in Iranian custody. Other possible names include Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, the organization’s spokesman, Saad Bin Laden, one of Osama’s sons, and Saif al-Adel, the Egyptian born military commander of al-Qaeda, presumed to have taken command of operations following the death of Egyptian Mohammed Atef in a US airstrike during the Afghan leg of the war on terror.

Some have noted, however, that the presence of a large number of high-level al-Qaeda members in Iran is unlikely, particularly in the case of Dr. al-Zawahiri. Interviewed by phone, Mr. Yasser al-Sirri, head of the London-based Islamic Observation Center, maintains that it is illogical to expect al-Zawhiri to turn up in Iran, given that he had previously been denied entry in 1996, following his departure from Sudan.

Additionally, ideological clashes are almost inevitable, owing to the enmity often exhibited between Iran’s dominant Shi’ism and the Salafi creed adhered to by al-Qaeda. Al-Sirri confirms that this has, in the past, been a source of tension between the regime and a few Egyptian militants whose presence had been somewhat tolerated.

Other members of al-Qaeda had indeed sought to settle in Iran with their families on a personal basis, following the defeat of the Taliban in Afghanistan, with some packing up and leaving soon thereafter, after having had it made clear to them that their presence was unwelcome in Iran, according to al-Sirri.

Iran, meanwhile, has maintained a studious silence as to the names and nationalities of its prisoners, choosing merely to state that it has in its custody “important and less important” members of the al-Qaeda organization, and that, for “security reasons,” it could not yet announce their identities, and would wait until files have been completed on the prisoners to decide their fates.

The Iranian admission signaled a reversal of a policy of ambiguity on the presence of al-Qaeda in Iran, and surprised many analysts for breaking so definitively with the Islamic Republic’s earlier statements.

Some observers attributed the reversal to Iran’s internal upheavals, coupled with increasing pressures being piled on by the United States.

“Iran is undergoing a crisis,” said Monstasser al-Zayat, an Egyptian lawyer and activist and erstwhile acquaintance of Dr. al-Zawahiri, in a phone interview. “It is undergoing a violent internal struggle between the conservatives and the reformists.” As such, Iran did not hasten to reveal the diplomatically embarrassing presence of the al-Qaeda militants on its soil, which might have focused attention on Iran’s relative inaction in dealing with them, or at the very least, the inordinate delay in confirming their presence to the international community and taking steps to apprehend them.

Al-Zayat holds that the revelation was forced upon Iran by governments seeking to pressure and embarrass the regime politically – an apparent reference to the US, which has long maintained that Iran was harboring terrorists. Al-Zayat adds that the de facto situation imposed on Iran forced it to pause and calculate potential benefits to the scenario.

While the New York Times reported on August 2nd that Iran was allegedly seeking to exchange al-Qaeda militants for members of Mujahedi Khalq, or the People’s Mujahedeen, the outlawed militant Iranian organization that is waging a low intensity guerrilla war against the regime, Iran denied seeking such a trade – a claim that makes sense, according al-Zayat. “Mujahedi Khalq were broken in Iraq with the downfall of the Iraqi Baa’th regime.” This coupled with the recent crackdown on the organization in France means that it has ceased to be a significant threat to Iran.

While Iran has ruled out prospects of a trade-off with the US, some observers suspect that al-Qaeda members might be handed over to the US through a third country, a view held by al-Sirri.

The al-Qaeda detainees face expulsion, extradition to country of origin, or prosecution in Iran, depending on a variety of factors, including but not limited to the circumstances surrounding their presence in the Islamic Republic, and whether or not extradition treaties exist between Iran and their countries of origin.

Iran has in the past extradited detainees to Saudi Arabia and Yemen.

Iran’s sudden desire to cooperate with the Arab states is also understood to be an effort to seek an improvement in its relations with the neighboring Arab bloc – crucial in the current situation Iran finds itself in, under mounting pressure from the US and under the international spotlight for its alleged nuclear weapons program. Improved relations with the Arab regimes would give Iran a badly needed new strategic depth, thereby complicating US policy geared towards containing the Islamic Republic.

Both al-Zayat and al-Sirri also suggest a more obscure ideological motivation for Iran’s cooperation, in the sense that conservative religious elements within the Iranian regime are pushing for better access to Egypt in particular, in efforts to gain a better foothold for the Jaa’fari School of jurisprudence, for which Egypt is historically significant.

Egypt has been specifically identified by diplomatic sources as one state actively engaged in negotiations with Iran for the extradition of its nationals, along with Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

Egypt had earlier responded to allegations that it was conducting talks with Iran for the possible extradition of Egyptian detainees with – predictably - strenuous denial. Reuters had in early July quoted an official Egyptian source as categorically denying that any form of discussions pertaining to the extradition of Egyptian nationals in Iran were taking place.

However, London-based Egyptian lawyer and activist Dr. Hani al-Sebai reported to AFP Tuesday August 5 that a delegation from Egypt’s Interior Ministry had been dispatched to Iran to identify the prisoners, as a necessary step preceding negotiations for their return.

Such cooperation is to Iran’s benefit, in that al-Qaeda members are notoriously difficult to identify, owing, among other factors, to their being trained in counter-interrogation techniques. As such, al-Zayat says, Iran needs some sort of access to Arab security apparatuses to allow it to identify the detainees - and consequently assess their relative worth as bargaining chips, no doubt.

In addition, such a step would not be unprecedented in Egyptian-Iranian relations, as “Iran has already extradited eight Egyptians back to Egypt in 2002,” according to al-Sirri.

Egypt’s history in this respect is a mixed bag. While it generally seeks the extradition of its nationals complicit in terror, it was generally unsuccessful in the past – until 1998. The US embassy bombings in Tanzania and Kenya spurred the US into backing Egypt’s extradition requests, according to al-Sirri. Subsequent to those bombings, Egypt was able to secure the extradition of its nationals from a number of countries, perhaps most notably Albania and Azerbaijan. Al-Sirri stresses that the extraditions were not so much diplomatic successes for Egypt as they were a reflection of a new, more aggressive US policy in combating terrorism, as US intelligence services realized they stood to benefit from the interrogations of militants conducted by the Egyptian government.

Indeed, the extradition of the Iranian detainees to their countries of origin may prove to be the most practical solution as far as the US is concerned; a December 26 2002 report published in the Washington Post detailed a US policy of legally questionable “extraordinary renditions,” through which al-Qaeda suspects are handed over to states with a record of brutality to facilitate the interrogation process, free from judicial or other constraints that might hamper questioning in the US. Egypt is one particularly favored state in this regard, having even interrogated Saudi suspects when the US feared the Saudi government might not be forthcoming with potentially embarrassing confessions.

In contrast, Egypt has not sought the extradition of Dr. Omar Abdul Rahman, the spiritual mentor of Egypt’s outlawed Al Jama’a Al Islamiyah, from the US, where he is currently serving a life sentence in Rochester, Colorado’s infamous Supermax facility after being convicted under Civil War-era sedition laws in relation to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. This is because the Egyptian government realizes that were Dr. Omar to be returned to Egypt he would most likely face a mere seven-year sentence, subject to appeal. Additionally, it was feared that an attempt to extradite the Sheikh would spur his followers into launching a fresh wave of violence against the state, says al-Sirri.

Any extradition to Egypt will doubtless raise a host of ethical and legal issues, given Egypt’s less-than-spotless human rights record in dealing with suspected militant Islamists – a record already in the spotlight due to the ongoing trial of several British and Egyptian suspected members of the banned Hizbut-Tahrir in Cairo, who have allegedly been severely tortured during interrogation, and who are the subject of several human rights organization reports.

At the time of writing, the Iranian Consulate in Cairo had failed to respond to requests for an interview or a statement.

Azizuddin El-Kaissouni is staff writer for IslamOnline. A graduate of the American University in Cairo, he holds a BA in Political Science with a specialization in International Law. He frequently writes about Muslim affairs around the world. You can reach him at azizuddin@islam-online.net.

http://www.islam-online.net/English/Views/2003/08/article02.shtml
40 posted on 08/10/2003 11:53:13 AM PDT by DoctorZIn (IranAzad... Until they are free, we shall all be Iranians!)
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To: DoctorZIn
Dore Gold: Lebanon, Syria, Iran directly responsible for Hezbollah terror

This comes as a 16 year old boy is murdered by Hizbullah terror fire on Israeli border towns.

41 posted on 08/10/2003 12:29:43 PM PDT by yonif ("If I Forget Thee, O Jerusalem, Let My Right Hand Wither" - Psalms 137:5)
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To: DoctorZIn
The CIA once labeled Ghorbanifar “an intelligence fabricator and nuisance.

Translation, he doesn't work for us.
42 posted on 08/10/2003 12:29:44 PM PDT by Valin (America is a vast conspiracy to make you happy.)
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To: Eala
True, but isn't a constitutional democratic republic better than a true democracy?

Yes.
43 posted on 08/10/2003 2:06:09 PM PDT by Pro-Bush (Circumstances rule destiny)
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To: DoctorZIn; F14 Pilot
"Gulf News is a pro regime publication"

Dr.Z, F14 and I have already had that conversation. ;o)

44 posted on 08/10/2003 5:47:28 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other "I'll man the guns, You drive")
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To: DoctorZIn
Thanks for all of your posts!

I especially enjoyed Friedman and Gurwitz articles.

45 posted on 08/10/2003 5:53:32 PM PDT by dixiechick2000 (Two fish are in a tank. One says to the other "I'll man the guns, You drive")
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To: dixiechick2000; DoctorZIn; nuconvert; freedom44; Valin; RaceBannon; Eala; SpookBrat; rontorr; ...
AIMING AT FORCING THE US INTO TALKS, IRAN OPENS UP THREE FRONTS

By Safa Haeri

PARIS, 10 Aug. (IPS) As American investigators are focusing on a Jordanian with ties to al-Qa’eda as the possible mastermind of the explosion of the Jordanian Embassy in Baghdad, Iranian political analysts said Tehran is using all its assets in Iraq and the region to force Washington entering negotiations with the Islamic Republic of Iran.

The last Saturday blast that killed at least 19, all Iraqis, and wounded many more, is reported to be the work of Abu Musab al Zarqawi, a noted terrorist affiliated with the Iran-backed Ansar al-Eslam.

At almost the same time, the Iran-supported and trained Lebanese Hezbollah guerrillas fired shells over northern Israel, killing one person and injuring four other.

Hezbollah said the shelling was retaliation for the 2 August killing of Ali Hoseyn Saleh, one of its security official by a bomb in his car south of Beirut, blaming Israel for his death.

The Organisation’s Deputy Secretary-General Sheik Na’im Qasem said Sunday that Hezbollah "is fully prepared and ready to respond in the proper manner to any Israel aggression or threat."

British forces in the predominately Shi’ite region of Basra were not spared, as they also suffered new attacks on the same day, after irate Iraqis, waiting in the searing heat to fill up their cars with petrol, threw stones in frustration, according to a British army spokesman.

A foreign security guard and two Iraqis were killed in a second day of violence in Basra on Sunday in which British troops fired warning shots as crowds attacked vehicles and blocked streets with burning tires.

The British patrolled in tanks as hundreds of stone-throwing Iraqis rampaged in protest against fuel and power shortages. In one incident troops said they returned fire from gunmen, but a tense calm settled over Iraq's second city by evening.

The violence was some of the worst in Iraq since Saddam Hussein was toppled by U.S.-led forces on April 9 and occurred in a city at the heart of the mostly Shi'ite Muslim south, which has been relatively peaceful in the wake of his fall. Iraq's majority Shi'ites were repressed under Saddam, a Sunni Muslim, according to "Reuters" news agency.

Following the Jordan Embassy blast, the U.S. civilian Administrator of Iraq Paul Bremer on Saturday said the security is far being satisfactory in Iraq and added that he suspected that foreign fighters, Ansar al-Eslam could have been involved in the attack.

He was referring to mounting and repeated attacks by the pro-Saddam Hoseyn Iraqis as well as both the radical Shi’ites and Sunnis backed by Tehran.

Since President Bush declared the end of major combat May 1, 122 service members have died -- 56 were killed in hostile fire. Since the start of the war, 260 U.S. troops have been killed, 171 of them in hostile fire.

Iran condemned the attack on the Jordanian Embassy and at the same time, repeated that it would try on its soil those of the al-Qa’eda whose identities were not established.

Tehran has acknowledged that it holds some 500 al-Qa’eda and Taleban members, prominent among them are, besides Zarqawi, Soleyman Abu Ghaith, al-Qa’eda’s treasurer, Saif al-Adel, the network’s chief of staff alleged to have organised the 12 May explosions in Riyadh, as well as Sa’d Ben Laden, Osama’s elder son, according to US intelligence and Administration sources.

Government official spokesman Abdollah Ramezanzadeh said recently that due to security problems, Iran would not disclose the names of the senior terrorists it has arrested and repeated that anyhow, none of them would be handed over to the Americans, who have placed the Islamic Republic in their list of "rogue states" and with whom Tehran has no relations.

An associate of Osama Ben Laden, the alleged mastermind of the 11 September terrorist attacks on New York and on Washington, Zarqawi has been named by the Bush Administration as an al-Qa’eda terrorist who fled to Iraq from Afghanistan in May 2002 for medical treatment, and then stayed to organise terror plots.

"The al Qa’eda affiliate, Ansar al-Eslam, is known to still be present in Iraq", the White House paper said. "Such terrorist groups are now plotting against U.S. forces in Iraq".

On Saturday, General Richard Myers, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, warned that the infiltration of Iraq by armed fighters from neighbouring countries could raise tensions between the United States and those countries.

Though he did not name Iran, but considering the situation of relations between Iraq and its neighbours, it is clear which country he was pointing to, as, according to the Israeli intelligence website "Debkafile", Ansar members "could only have returned to Iraq with a blessing, logistical aid and funding from Iran’s Revolutionary Guards special intelligence arm which owns a strong presence on both sides of the Iranian-Iraqi border".
Actually, the Ansar had been transferred by Iran to the area to safeguard members of Ben Laden family, after "Iran Press Service" had revealed their hideout in Tehran and later in the western city of Hamedan.

Early in the Iraq War, American bombers wiped out Ansar’s main headquarters in Kurdish-controlled northeastern Iraq near the Iranian border.

"Based on the view that the Americans are at the heart of their troubles both at home and outside, Tehran has embarked on a make it or break it policy towards the United States. Either Washington buy Tehran’s bluff and in this case the regime will gain a breathing space, or it won’t and the result is open confrontation, including possible military engagement", the analyst added.

While reiterating that it is not seeking to overthrow the Islamic Republic, the State Department has advised the Bush Administration not to take side of any of the feuding wings of Iranian leadership, stating at the same time support for Iranian dissidents, as demonstrated with the recent students-led anti-regime protest movement.

At the same time, Washington, blessed by the European Union, has stepped up international pressures on the Islamic Republic with regard to its nuclear programs; its continued support for Arab and Palestinian groups opposed to peace with Israel and its black human rights records.

"By opening up at the same time three fronts against the Americans and their closest allies, Britain and Israel, the Iranian ruling clerics, sensing that their life is being counted and under mounting pressures both at home and on the international theatre, hope to be able to persuade Washington that it has no alternative but to sit and talk to them", one Iranian analyst commented.

http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2003/Aug-2003/iran_us_confrontation_10803.htm
46 posted on 08/10/2003 9:35:58 PM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: F14 Pilot
Thanks for the post.
47 posted on 08/10/2003 9:40:39 PM PDT by DoctorZIn
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To: All
Translation of the astonishing and unprecedented letter of Dr. Maleki, Head of the University

SMCCDI (Fax & Documents)
Aug 10, 2003

The following is the translation, by SMCCDI, of the astonishing and unprecedented Public Letter of Dr. Mohammad Maleki, head of the University to the students and scholars of Iran.

Maleki will issue this letter on August 6th and following the issuance, by several students member of the Islamic Student associations, of a public letter calling on UN's Secretary General. These students, who are usually "better" treated than their arrested secularist colleagues, denounced, in their letter to which Maleki makes reference, part of the brutal investigative methods used against their imprisoned colleagues and have asked for the UN's intervention.

Anyone reading Maleki's letter, entitled “A drop is the sea, if it's with the sea”, must note that he was among those 1979 National-Religious revolutionaries who promoted the idea of a religious political system and who will promote, later, the useless and baseless theory of "reforms from within".

But despite his past and present believes, his letter, shall lift off any shadow of doubt on any remaining legitimacy of the theocratic system and shall be considered as a document pointing out to some small parts of the existing pressures and repressive actions used against the Iranian students.


Its translation is as follow:
In the name of Liberty, Knowledge and Justice
A drop is the sea, if it's with the sea

Knowledgeable students, my dear children,
I read the letters of your sufferings addressed to Kofi Anan and the nation of Iran. As I am a drop that’s within the sea, I want to talk to you now about “sorrow.” Because I know, and very well I know, how heavy a sorrow is weighing down your patient hearts.
“The sorrow for your brothers and sisters who have unjustly become caught behind the bars in jails. Jails that have become trysting places for noble broad-minded.

Yes, the brothers and sisters who not just yesterday or today, rather for decades, have been caught behind those bars and have held on to the promise with their lives.
And if your friends and comrades have been sent into prison cells from the class rooms in these days, based on the void belief that the fire that burns within their souls for the love of the country can be extinguished, ignoring that the flames of that fire are unyielding and can not be put down, And if your brothers and sisters have been caught under the torture of the oppressors and the guardians of the government of the “Supreme Leader” these days, let no grief in your hearts; For they are and have remained steadfast with their covenant; Because the “Student Movement” that is critical of the rulers has chosen the war against the unjust and struggle for democracy and its realization as its duty. Congratulations on their choice.

My children, dear students, when I see that you are worried about your fellow students; when you suffer from the knowledge of the fate of a lady reporter in a torture chamber; when you hear from the sidelines what they do to the male or female students in those rooms; When you have heard from your elders what exactly torture confession extraction in the horrific jail houses of the government of the “Supreme Leader” mean, you should be worried. You are justified to be worried because I know it and I know it well. I know, and I know very well. I know prison, torture, interrogation, exorcism, insult and belittling, the interrogator, the court, the religious ruler, the judge, judgment, and etc. in the “Religious Government” and the “Ruling Religion” very well.

I know. I know very well how it burns to your core every time the cable strikes the soles of your feet or any other part of your body.

I know. I know very well how your personality and you whole existence is stirred and disturbed when you are taken blind folded into the interrogation room and the guard closes the door, you can’t see anywhere or anybody, the interrogators hard slap throws you off your balance and you hit the wall hard and you spill on the floor and writhe in pain, you hear the voice of the interrogator who grabs your head by the hair and pulls you up to your feet as he shouts obscenities saying “Don't play dead you piece of sullen dirt. Sit on the chair and answer me.”

I know. I know very well what nightly interrogations mean and how the tired and worried prisoners are treated by the interrogators in the middle of nights.

I know. I know very well, if you happen to be young and inexperienced, how they can frighten you and trick you into writing and admitting whatever they say.

I know. I know very well what “repentant making” means and how they make a repentant out of an innocent prisoner as they make him confess to thousands of sins he did not commit.

I know. I know very well what the mind altering drugs, which they inject into prisoners, can do to your brain, mind, and senses. To the point that you start believing that you have been a spy in the service of Imperialism and “World Arrogance (USA)” since birth!

I know. I know very well what kind of a place the cell block 209 is; where due to overcrowding many are packed in there and what a problem it is to use the toilet. I know the things that can destroy your body and soul can happen to you there if you are there by yourself. And then they throw a woman whose husband has been executed in the cell next to yours with her two years old child. They take away the woman in the morning while the child is still asleep for “interrogation.” When the innocent jailed child wakes up and doesn’t see his mom he cries for few minutes and comes out of the cell towards the back of your cell. He claws on your cell door asking for his mother and you can see his feet through the opening at the bottom of the door where you receive your food and you can hear his moaning and crying. There is nothing you can do but to swallow your rage over the lump of hatred in your throat that is choking you and wipe away your tears with your sleeves. You endure a few burning hours of that feeling until you hear the child’s mother limping towards her cell, moaning and holding on to the end of a stick that is in the prison guard’s hand. Then you understand what happened to that woman in the interrogation.

I know. I know very well the difference between the “white” torture and the “black” torture. I know everything that happened in those 20 years (1981-2001) and whatever else that is still happening in the jail cells of the “Religious Government”, and those are now the cause of your worries.

I know. I know very well…

My children, dear students:
Let me confess. My generation fought against the dictator and the fascist instead of fighting dictatorship and fascism for it thought it can reach liberty and justice by just changing the garb and the name of the ruler.

My generation was after making a hero not after making the people. My generation thought the country would be our homeland again once the Shah was in his burial shroud. My generation’s motto was not death to despotism; rather it was death to the despot.
And we saw and witnessed the results of that erroneous motto. The”King’s government” just transformed into the “Supreme Leader’s government” and several generations, including yours, have been paying the penalty for that historic mistake ever since.

Now that after many ups and downs and a 15-20 year break the “Student Movement” has come to the conclusion that a true democratic system can not be pulled out of the belly of a dictatorship, and time for putting hopes on superficial changes and deceiving the people by the name of “Reforms” has ended, and that by painting a new façade over the decayed structure it can no longer be held up, and now that you have diagnosed the roots of the pain, you have the right to shout: “We no longer have anything to say to the ruling system and treat the system’s submission to the just expectations of the Iranian nation as an illusion and we saw that they give no regard to our just demands. The answer to our lawful actions became unlawful detentions and the result of our human demands became inhuman repression.” (An excerpt from the letter of the Islamic Students Associations to the Iranian nation. Dated Wednesday 23 July 2003)

And in these days that you dear ones, “as the pioneers of the Democratic Movement,” treat reliance on just one individual and “Hero making” and “Icon producing” as the wrong way of doing things, and know yourselves to be responsible and accountable before the Iranian nation, as on the Third Article of your declaration you have stated to remain steadfast and to ask all those who claim of democracy, rule of law, civil society, pursuit of justice, and rejection of foreign interference etc… to announce not once, but many times over again that: “Whereas the fate of every nation isn’t decided by anything but their own policies and contemplations, we recognize the nation of Iran as the rulers of their own destiny and we are of the conviction that, except by reliance on the people’s vote and the wisdom of the whole population, no kind of government will be acceptable.” (Article 3 of the declaration in the letter dated 23 July 2003)


Dear students, scholars,
Today your sacred mission is to publicize and plan the “Return to the Wisdom of the Whole.” Strive in this path and fear not its expenses. For if the rulers do not submit to it, they will loose this last chance for a civil and peaceful transformation and will undoubtedly encounter the storm of nation’s wrath in tomorrow that isn’t too far. The same way that the “Royal Governance” didn’t heed the advice of the advisers and the nation was forced to revolt and take action, certainly much more than a name and memory won’t be left of the “government of the Supreme Leader” in the near future if the repression of the students, journalists, and the scholars continues. And in conclusion, I assure you that as an Iranian, a citizen, and a scholar, I will remain by the side of my student children till my last breath.

And now a message to the so-called “friends:”
Why do you chastise me?
I was like a drop of water in a motionless pond, rotting and turning into slime.
There was a sound, A boulder broke of the mountain and fell into that pond.
I was hurled into a turbulent river that was heading for the sea.
I wanted to become of the sea. I wanted to wash my body, which still held the wounds and pus that the henchmen had inflicted on it, in the sea.
Doesn’t the “Sea” cure and cleanse?
I want to become clean and then die in the heart of the sea.
Like a swan, I want to die alone in a lonely corner of the sea.
Why do you chastise me?
I want to be by, and part of millions of drops of water.
I’d like to be a drop of water, in the sea, a stormy sea raging with waves.
I hate rotting and sliming and then dying.
Pity such existence , such death.
A drop is the sea, if it's with the sea
Then why do you chastise me? Why?

With salutations to all students and freedom lovers who are enduring jail and torture.

Tehran, 6 August 2003
Dr. Mohammad Maleki

http://www.daneshjoo.org/generalnews/article/publish/article_1675.shtml
48 posted on 08/10/2003 9:43:43 PM PDT by DoctorZIn
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To: DoctorZIn
Lari: Iranian foreign policy still dominated by policy of detente

Mashad, Aug 10, IRNA -- Minister of the Interior Abdolvahed Mousavi Lari said here Saturday that the policy of detente proposed by Iranian
President Mohammad Khatami still dominates the country's foreign
policy.
Making the remark at a gathering of religious scholars and
theological students in this northeastern province, he said that
by observing the policy Iran has been able to refute the "clash of
civilizations" theory with the idea of a "dialogue among
civilizations," thereby raising the prestige of the Islamic Republic
in international fora.
He further pointed to Iran's successful implementation of its
policy in dealings with regional states in spite of US efforts to
isolate the country.
Noting that the current global situation would not sustain any
real threat to Iran from the US, Lari noted that America is getting
desperate and is now accusing Iran of entertaining ambitions to
develop a nuclear bomb in order to turn the tide of global public
opinion against Iran.
The interior minister also spoke of the state of the domestic
economy, describing it as "positive," and attributed the country's
7.4 economic growth to the success of its economic policies.
The relatively high GDP growth achieved under the Third Five-Year
Development Plan has led to the creation of 680,000 jobs during the
period, the figure almost double that reported in the Second
Five-Year Development Plan, he concluded.

http://www.irna.ir/en/tnews/030811115735.etn00.shtml
49 posted on 08/10/2003 9:57:31 PM PDT by F14 Pilot
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To: F14 Pilot
Iran/Syria=Gulf War 3
50 posted on 08/10/2003 10:15:35 PM PDT by Pro-Bush (Circumstances rule destiny)
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