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Homelessness grows as more live check-to-check
USA Today ^ | 8/12/03 | Stephanie Armour

Posted on 08/12/2003 7:04:53 AM PDT by Gothmog

Edited on 04/13/2004 1:41:03 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Homelessness in major cities is escalating as more laid-off workers already living paycheck-to-paycheck wind up on the streets or in shelters.

As Americans file for bankruptcy in record numbers and credit card debt explodes, more workers are a paycheck away from losing their homes. Now the frail economy is pushing them over the edge. With 9 million unemployed workers in July, the face of homelessness is changing to include more families shaken by joblessness.


(Excerpt) Read more at usatoday.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2004pres
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To: samuel_adams_us
I am upset that the president's way of dealing with the unemployment problem in the United States is to stick his head in the sand. His father did the same thing, guess what, his father wasn't re-elected either.

Well, mercy, you just gave $2000 to the Bush campaign last night, supposedly. You must not be that upset....

151 posted on 08/12/2003 8:45:16 AM PDT by willieroe
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To: willieroe
In hopes he will listen, that 2k didn't come without some questions.
152 posted on 08/12/2003 8:47:04 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: autoresponder
Really ?

Hey, I remember the 90's. I was there, you know ? Back in the days when the want ads were as thick as a blanket ? So were lots of people who were making more money than they had ever made before.

Now, none of those people are making what they were then. Many who had to hide from headhunters in 1998 have been out of work for months, longer than ever.

So trying to pretend that 1996 was really like 2002 but with the statistics fudged is ridiculous.
153 posted on 08/12/2003 8:49:06 AM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: Elliott Gigantalope
Maybe your friend needs to get some training or find a new strategy.

I had to attend an unemployment orientation yesterday. Total waste of time and city/state funds, but I saw a lady there, maybe 50-something who said she's never been unemployed in 30 years, and says her main problem is that no one will hire her because she has exactly zero computer skills. Now, in this day and age, I find it highly strange that this woman, who worked in a clerical position, has never used computers before. She then went on asking if and how the state will pay for her computer training. She then complained that private classes will not start until October and wanted the Dep't of Labor to somehow improve on that.

So it seems on one hand, this lady is starting to get the message the HARD WAY that it's up to her to improve her skills and certification and make herself more attractive to employers, but at the same time, still thinks it's Mommy Gov'ts job to help her along the way.

The Invisible Hand has a real nice way of smacking you on the ass to let you know it's in your own interests to help yourself and try something different when the same old same old isn't working.
154 posted on 08/12/2003 8:50:40 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Tokhtamish
Homelessness like this, child, has not been a problem for decades. It has gotten to be a major problem in the past three years as manufacturing has collapsed due to "free trade" policies

I hate to sound cold, but then those people who have become unemployed need to find other industries where their labor will be better allocated, for their own good and society's.

I know you're making an emotional play talking about blue collar manufacturing folk (I'm picturing a John Mellencamp video in my head as I type this, "Little Pink Houses" maybe?) but I look at the example of all those programmers being hired for huge money at the dotcom's about 3 or 4 years ago. Guess what, now that the dotcom industry basically collapsed, or more accurately, corrected itself by stripping itself to the bare necessitites (the one that laid me off 2.5 years ago actually turned an operating profit this quarter, after slashing jobs from about 170 to 20 and making their software install more automated) a lot of these programmers are either unemployed or having to take lower salaries. What's the answer? To bitch and whine? To call on President Bush to protect or subsidize (like the farmers) their jobs? Ooooooooooor, to get certification and traiing in some other type of software programming?
155 posted on 08/12/2003 8:56:48 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: samuel_adams_us; Gothmog; Alberta's Child; whereasandsoforth; finnman69; All
BTW, I hope bush can attract more than 350 people to his next benefits, otherwise it sure is going to get lonely out there for him.

Per the Denver Post, the event was attended by 375 people each donating $2,000.00.

In addition, more than 100 more donors contributed to the event but didn't show up for the reception.

The Post reported that dozens (more than 24?) of other would-be donors tried to attend but were turned away Monday morning because security agents didn't have time to do background checks.

Bush's campaign headquarters phoned former state GOP chairman Bruce Benson in June asking him to prepare for Monday's fundraiser.

Benson was quoted as saying, "They said we want to raise $1 million. We frankly didn't think we'd get that high. But things came together and we beat it".

The Posts goes on to add that the money raised Monday comes in addition to about $150,000 raised so far in Colorado, and to the $40 million Bush already has amassed for his re-election.

BTW, I hope bush can attract more than 350 people to his next benefits, otherwise it sure is going to get lonely out there for him.

156 posted on 08/12/2003 8:56:52 AM PDT by new cruelty
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To: new cruelty
Wow!
157 posted on 08/12/2003 8:57:34 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: whereasandsoforth
The first Postmaster General of the US was Ben Franklin. If I was his great-great-great-great-grandkid, it is pretty hard to imagine that Postmaster General would be what I would remember him for.
158 posted on 08/12/2003 8:57:45 AM PDT by triplejake
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To: samuel_adams_us
What do you want him to do? You seem to know the answer. Tell us. Tell us how the President is supposed to turn the whole economy around and get around 5 million people employed immediately. Do you have CLUE #1 about how an economy works?????? Please, do us the favor and *you* stick your head in the sand.
159 posted on 08/12/2003 8:59:26 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Conservative til I die
I understand what you're saying, but the way I see it that any job that can be done by computer (which implies it can be done from home) can also be done from overseas much more cheaply. Thus, would it really matter now if she went out and did gain those computer skills?
160 posted on 08/12/2003 9:00:06 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: samuel_adams_us
You seem easily wowed.
161 posted on 08/12/2003 9:00:56 AM PDT by new cruelty
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To: harpseal
"But despite this Hebry Ford pioneered paying awage to his employees sufficient that they could buy his products. that was perhaps his true genius."

Depends on your product doesn't it? One wonders what Boeing would have to pay for each employee to buy his own 747.
162 posted on 08/12/2003 9:04:25 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: samuel_adams_us
I guess that means you just cried "uncle" right? Loser.
163 posted on 08/12/2003 9:05:15 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Gothmog
What do you suggest our government do about the current trade deficit?
164 posted on 08/12/2003 9:05:48 AM PDT by holdmuhbeer
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To: samuel_adams_us
Hey dude, I'm on your side.
165 posted on 08/12/2003 9:06:46 AM PDT by holdmuhbeer
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To: Gothmog
The first thing a Chinese friend of mine looked for when he first stepped foot on the ground here was the homeless, which in Beijing everyone had been told was rampant in America. Instead he had to learn the classes of recreational vehicles and to not stare at fat Americans.
166 posted on 08/12/2003 9:06:56 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Law of the Excluded Middle)
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To: Conservative til I die
The solution is to face the fact that no certification or training will protect you from the fact that someone in Bangalore with precisely the same qualifications as you will do your job for a tenth of your pay unless the US government takes your side and sets in place some tariff protection. This applies to each and every job that does not require face to face contact and every factory job. All the Dale Carnegie peptalk in the world is meaningless in the face of this hard economic reality. There is nothing you can do to compete with this kind of wage differential all by yourself and imagining that you can get "training" in "some other kind of software programming" where India and China and outsourcing do not exist is wishful thinking.
167 posted on 08/12/2003 9:07:38 AM PDT by Tokhtamish
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To: Tokhtamish
In post #87 you said:

"...things are worse than they have been since the Great Depression." (I can't believe you said this, you really are quite amusing, like the town fool)

The New York Time's lib columnist Bob Herbert reports that at Al Gore's recent speech, Gore said:

http://www.abs-cbnnews.com/abs_news_body.asp?section=Opinion&oid=30486

"Instead of creating jobs, for example, we are losing millions of jobs -- net losses for three years in a row,' said Gore. 'That hasn’t happened since the Great Depression.'"

Yes, you add so much to this forum mindlessly parroting Gore's nonsense. Thank you for 'contributing' so much.

It takes a real manly man (like you and your hero Gore) to so proudly display your ignorance. But don't go away mad, just go away.
168 posted on 08/12/2003 9:11:40 AM PDT by Gothmog
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To: Gothmog
"Jobs hard to find"

Me skeptical.

169 posted on 08/12/2003 9:12:32 AM PDT by subterfuge
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To: dfwgator
But there *are* plenty of jobs that are being done with computers and are still staying in the US. Basically *every* office job requires some basic computer skills (MS Word, eMail at the least).

Remember, this lady is a clerical worker, not an HTML programmer. And she stated that she has found plenty of places that said they would hire but for her lack of PC skills. Now, she may exaggerated the amount of places that would hire her out of embarassment at being on unemployment, but you get the point nonetheless.

Also, I would say it's kind of silly to look for jobs that are being exported or have already been exported, don't you think???? I mean, what do you say to a kid in Flint Michigan who says "When I get out of high school I plan to work in an automobile plant!"
170 posted on 08/12/2003 9:13:05 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Conservative til I die
Let's see, how about a bill for fair trade as well as open trade, how about no taxes for corporations.
171 posted on 08/12/2003 9:13:29 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: mediawatcher44
Being underemployed at 2 jobs does not leave you much time, but if you are not acquainted with these websites, they do make activism easy and keep one updated.

http://www.numbersusa.com/index
http://www.fairus.org
http://www.techsunite.org

Before you give up on the Republican Party, think about the kind of judges that the Dims would appoint and how they would have mishandled 9/11.
172 posted on 08/12/2003 9:14:03 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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To: Conservative til I die
Just remember in the world of stuff, I am standing on your shoulders.
173 posted on 08/12/2003 9:14:06 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: DugwayDuke
But despite this Hebry Ford pioneered paying awage to his employees sufficient that they could buy his products. that was perhaps his true genius.
I don't really buy this, either. I don't know what the standard rate was compared to what Ford payed his employees, but it would inevitably raise the cost of the car. So now x number of employees could afford the cars, which raises the cost of the cars to $y, which would then make x number of other people unable to afford the cars. Sure, it was good for publicity, but if there were other competitors out there who could sell for the same price, it would not have been possible.
174 posted on 08/12/2003 9:16:30 AM PDT by BMiles2112
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To: samuel_adams_us
Actually, the statistics are liberal fecal matter. Get the gov't out of the "welfare" business and give concern for our "fellow man" back to local organizations (primarily, but not limited to, religious) and the salvation army, et.al., and watch things change, however slowly. It's gonna take a long time to undo damage and manure-like thinking created by 40+ years of failed gov't welfare programs!

This data is from a bunch of mayors who, no doubt, are trying to shift blame to conservatives when it is their own, demonstrated, liberal lack of fiscal accountability regarding a problem which far predates Bush!

"The poor" are documented throughout the history of man; Bush didn't create them and, if he's smart, he won't aid and abet the problem by increasing spending for so-called "welfare" programs which are proven failures!

175 posted on 08/12/2003 9:17:34 AM PDT by mil-vet
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To: Tokhtamish
Then find another career. I say this seriously. It sounds cold, but this is a fact. Tell me which is going to get you a job quicker: Protesting at a Bush rally about how it's not fair or bitching on an internet political board, or going to take some classes or new training????
176 posted on 08/12/2003 9:19:25 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: Alberta's Child
Please understand I have had my own bisiness for over ten years now. I know the overhead costs you are talking about. I pay them. I have to pay for FUTA that I will never get a penny from. When I stopped hiring new peopel a few years back I was able to keep everyone employed that I had employed until they either found new jobs or had retired (one person was retiring). Now I do not liek all teh regulations and all the other taxes taht an employer must pay but that is the cost of having employees in the USA. I sold what I sold in the USA so I did not object to those costs. I have lived in the USA my entire life. I am a loyal conservative and I realize that the currtent trade envirornment is destroying too many Americans's lives. It is also destroying a whole lot of economic activity in thsi nation. I ahve a real problem with people who think they have a right to shop the world for the lowest price for anything and then bring that into the USA. They have to pay what duties are imposed by Congress ande signed into law by teh President.

I also have a real problem with Republicans who do not recognize theeconomy is in a "jobless recovery" it has list jobs constitently this year. This will bite GWB if he does not make it his issue.

177 posted on 08/12/2003 9:20:40 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: mil-vet
I agree with you, but he might help those unemployed from the upper middle class whose jobs are being shipped overseas. You know those who make more than most, the 80 to 100k a year engineers. Unless you lump them in with the uneducated poor.
178 posted on 08/12/2003 9:21:10 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: Conservative til I die
Geez, what are PC Skills?? To learn how to do Word, Excel or e-mail should take a half and hour at the most to learn even if somebody has never used a computer before. It's all a scam in order to sell computer training to people. Software should adapt to people, not the other way around. (I used to work in the usability area, can't you tell?)
179 posted on 08/12/2003 9:23:05 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: samuel_adams_us
"No, but it is the job of the president to look after the best interest of the citizens of this country and employing chinese and indians is not. Even Alexander Hamilton knew about tariffs and fair and free trade."

Excuse me, but the president can't dictate whom a company hires. Busineses are in business to (gasp!) make a profit. Unfortunately, Americans are pricing themselves out of the market. I don't like it, but that's a fact. We have the government to thank for that, with its overbearing and oppressive laws, as well as the trial lawyers, who have bankrupted entire industries, costing literally hundreds of thousands of direct jobs, and likely twice that number in ancillary jobs. Moreover, the economic "boom" of the Clinton years was based on fictitious wealth (even Alan Greenspan admits that), fueled mostly by the .com companies. The 1990s' economy was based on a wealth that was created -- literally -- mostly out of thin air; there was very little of substance to it; there was little if anything tangible about it. America has ceased to be the great manufacturer and industrial giant it once was, mainly because the Democrats and the liberals have made it difficult or impossible to stay competitive and make a profit. The Dems and the liberals have filled the books with laws that prevent or forbid businesses from doing what they do best: provide a product or a service for a fair price. The unions have a lot of the blame for this, as well (but I repeat myself, since they are overwhelmingly Democrats, at least their leadership is). The enviro laws, the high cost of defensive measures (high insurance rates, processes and programs that do nothing other than try and insulate companies from the greed of voracious lawyers, but to no avail; costs that must necessarily be passed on to consumers), are just a couple examples of what is wrong with American business today. Until we rid ourselves of the scourge of big govvernment, bureaucratic oversight, and the unlimited lust for money that consumes the trial lawyers, we will continue our economic collapse. We either change direction now, or in ten years we will be a socialist republic.
180 posted on 08/12/2003 9:23:43 AM PDT by ought-six
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To: samuel_adams_us
Wait a sec, how can you have a bill for open trade as well as for fair trade. It's one or the other. As to eliminating or lowering taxes on corporations, I'm all for it.

What I was going to originally say was if the president could do anything to improve the economy and unemployment rates, don't you think he would have by now???? And if he could, it would be as easy as snapping his fingers, by definition.

But really, all a President can do is remove many disincentives for corporations to hire and invest, and do the same for individuals. And the only way he can do that really is to lower the federal interest rate (which he can;t do anyway), cut personal income tax, and cut certain corporate taxes. All three have happened. On a state and local level, which the POTUS has no jurisdiction over, mayors and governors can create a better climate for businesses. That's what my city is doing, and it's hittting a real Rennaisance, in spite of the bad economy (It's also why houses that were selling for $250,000 -a decent house in my neck of the woods in NY- are up to around $375,000 in the space of a couple of years.
181 posted on 08/12/2003 9:23:49 AM PDT by Conservative til I die (They say anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's anti-Semitism; that's an insult to thinking men)
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To: ought-six
President doesn't have to dictate who hires whom but he can level the playing field much like our founding fathers advised and in the meantime continue to cut out unecessary government.
182 posted on 08/12/2003 9:25:16 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: Conservative til I die
So you are saying the president can't suggest to congress to come up with a way to level the playing field? Tariffs to create more fair trade, where people in different economies are competing on a level playing field? Geez, were the founding fathers completely wrong when they suggested this was possible?
183 posted on 08/12/2003 9:27:01 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: Conservative til I die
or going to take some classes or new training????

Taking classes or training is not the answer. The answer is learn something on your own, then you train others on it. Taking classes just costs money, and with the Internet, there are plenty of free resources to learn new skills on your own. Then turn around and you charge others to learn from you. You take a class, then you're just competing with the others that are taking the very same class.

184 posted on 08/12/2003 9:27:58 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: RightWhale
An old girlfriend of mine's parents fled China. She was born in Autralia and when she was five they immigrated to the US. Her parents are very successful and she's well-educated, hard-working, etc.

She went on an internship to work for a company in China for 6 months. When she got back she was happy to have had the experience but in no way wanted to return.

One time we were talking about something (some slackers at work or whatever) and she said, 'They're not as bad as the damned lazy Chinese!' I looked at her and said, 'Uhm, honey, you're kind of Chinese.' She just fired right back -- 'I was there, I had to work with 'those people,' their lazy, ignorant, etc, etc... they do nothing all day but sit in their offices reading the paper, etc., etc.'

I thought it was pretty funny.
185 posted on 08/12/2003 9:30:25 AM PDT by Gothmog
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To: Conservative til I die
Just imagine what 375 donors must have looked like.
186 posted on 08/12/2003 9:30:26 AM PDT by new cruelty
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To: samuel_adams_us
"BTW, this country isn't a business, it's a democratic republic."

No, it's actually a constitutional, representative republic.
187 posted on 08/12/2003 9:31:55 AM PDT by ought-six
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To: Alberta's Child
"And I can assure everyone here that unless something dramatic changes, I will never hire a single employee. I have no problem paying someone a dollar for a dollar's worth of work. But when it costs me $1.50 to pay someone $1, it's pretty clear to me that there is something deeply flawed in this country's "business model."

Amen Brother, Amen!

We have 3 businesses and have exactly one employee besides the three family members who own the corporation. We have contractors we deal with but we don't hire employees anymore. The paper work and extra cost is just not worth the meager increase in income.

The family members all have low salaries (We hate to pay FICA taxes) we take dividends instead and take any profits and invest them in real estate or equities with dividends or bonds.

You can't hire someone to work anymore. Instead you've got to offer cradle to grave healthcare and retirement and personal days, blah blah blah etc.etc.etc. The liberals have made it so business is not the primary concern of a business and thus the Big Crops are fleeing the coup!

188 posted on 08/12/2003 9:32:50 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (French: old Europe word meaning surrender)
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To: ought-six
Isn't that the same thing?
189 posted on 08/12/2003 9:32:55 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: dfwgator
Here's complete MS Office training, free of charge.
Press F1
190 posted on 08/12/2003 9:33:44 AM PDT by BMiles2112
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To: BMiles2112
It's a real shame when conservatives adopt the rhetoric and arguments of the left. This "stroke of genious" by Henry Ford is one of the favorite arguements of the "living wage" crowd. Yet, conservatives of a populist stripe often pick up on it to advance their agenda not noticing that they are arguing on liberal grounds.

But, then, look at this thread. The article in question is undeniably written from a pro-democrat perspective and reads like a DNC press release (or, notice the "one paycheck away" rhetoric, Hillary Clinton's health care task force) and we have a number of conservatives using it to bash a republican.

BTW, Ford's real "storke of genius" was doing away with the production of automobiles as a craftsman's trade and employing the principles of the automated production line and interchangeable parts. This allowed him to produce automobiles at a price cheap enough for the masses to buy. (ending craftsman type production actually resulted in a lower wage) As you point out, increasing wages solely so your employees can buy your product is a dead end street.
191 posted on 08/12/2003 9:34:11 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: KellyAdmirer
Ah yes, the year 19902; I remember that, after Mars caught fire and Jupiter ran out of space to house GBLTs that had fled the red-planet, they returned here to the last open spot on Earth to set-up housekeeping right outside the mega-opolis of Crawford, Mexico.
192 posted on 08/12/2003 9:34:53 AM PDT by Old Professer
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To: Mad Dawgg
It almost makes it worth it for the government to handle healthcare if it takes that burden off of businesses. It just may come down to that in order to compete with the rest of the world, as much as I hate to say it.
193 posted on 08/12/2003 9:35:07 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Gothmog
So let me get this straight, someone who moves back into their parents home is HOMELESS? Odd....

And as to being a paycheck away from foreclosure, what state are these people from? Last thing banks want in a downturn is more dead assets on their books, foreclosure is a 6+ month process easy in this part of the country, and that assumes the bank starts it after 1 missed payment.

There is no doubt that a down economy causes more homelessness and bankruptcies... but I think this article is a bit over the top in some of its assertions
194 posted on 08/12/2003 9:36:23 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: holdmuhbeer
We had a trade deficit when the economy was booming and unemployment was low during the 1980s. Same thing during the mid-1990s. Why would you have the government base it's economic policy on 'solving' the trade deficit?
195 posted on 08/12/2003 9:37:41 AM PDT by Gothmog
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To: samuel_adams_us
Isn't that the same thing?

In as much as 100 is the same thing as 4000, sure.

196 posted on 08/12/2003 9:37:48 AM PDT by new cruelty
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To: new cruelty
So show me the differences, I would love to see them.
197 posted on 08/12/2003 9:38:30 AM PDT by samuel_adams_us
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To: Tokhtamish
Yeah right, the economy soared as soon as Clinton was elected. The next month all the homeless stories disappeared from the news. Is it too hard for you to understand that the liberal media tries to influence the voting public? There's plenty of things I disagree with Bush about (immigration, spending, etc) but he doesn't deserve to have all the blame for the economy dumped at his doorstep.
198 posted on 08/12/2003 9:38:30 AM PDT by Reagan is King
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To: samuel_adams_us
"It's his job to listen, right, don't we pay him? Is he the king or the president? Should he not be concerned with teh well being of the citizens of this country?"

Come on! Dont you know that having any issue with W automatically makes you a liberal regardless of how correct you are?[/sarcasam]

199 posted on 08/12/2003 9:38:31 AM PDT by SouthParkRepublican
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To: dfwgator
Taking classes or training is not the answer. The answer is learn something on your own, then you train others on it. Taking classes just costs money, and with the Internet, there are plenty of free resources to learn new skills on your own.

The problem is credentialing... Autodidacts can't prove to prospective employers or clients that they have the skills, until after they're hired. What right-thinking person would take the risk of hiring someone whose ability to do the job is doubtful?

200 posted on 08/12/2003 9:39:34 AM PDT by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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