Christians Thrown Out: Baseball Execs Eject Biblical Message from Homosexual Event

Agape Press ^ | 8/18/03 | Jim Brown

[truthandlife]

Four Christians were recently kicked out of Veterans Stadium during the Philadelphia Phillies' "Gay Community Day."

Last Tuesday, Michael Marcavage and three friends brought a banner to the ballpark that read "Homosexuality is sin, Christ can set you free." He says their intention was to share that biblical message of hope with homosexuals who were at the stadium. [See Earlier Story]

Seven minutes after unfurling their banner from their centerfield seats, however, the group was approached by security. Marcavage says the four were told that they could not display their banner.

"They basically said that the [Phillies] executives said this banner must come down. And we questioned them, because there were other banners in the stadium as well," he says.

Marcavage says while their banner with its Christian message was prohibited, several other banners were permitted in the park that day, including an oversized rainbow flag waved by a homosexual man. Marcavage says he and his friends challenged the singling out of their group when others in the park were being allowed to display their messages without incident.

"We basically questioned them, asking if they could have their banners, why couldn't we have ours. They said 'Well, it's the content of the message,'" Marcavage explains.

He speculates that the Philadelphia team's corporate owners may have feared negative publicity. In any case, based on the Christian group's choice to display a message from the Word of God that might have convicted some members of the crowd, Phillies executives decided that neither the banner nor its bearers had any place in the park. Shortly after security ordered them to take down their banner, the four were escorted from the stadium.

Marcavage says although they were asked to leave the ballpark, they did have their money refunded and each received a free ticket to another Phillies game.

[Militiaman7]

alternate targets! <</sarcasm>

[Robert_Paulson2]

Listen palpatine... don't try and make this about that alabama ten commandments case... this is entirely different!

[Chancellor Palpatine]

I'm sorry - I'd never make it about pharisaically worshipping at a big stone idol all so some wretched televangelists could make money......

[Robert_Paulson2]

Did you see this from the public website for phelps group of followers? What follows was excerpted from his rather extensive online list of articles...

---

This is the only truth about September 11, 2001 you're likely to hear, so pay attention!

"The LORD’S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy name: hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it." Micah 6:9

On September 11, 2001, God Almighty struck the United States of America with the worst terrorist attack in her history. Thousands died, millions, even billions of dollars lost and spent in subsequent recovery, cleanup, and security measures, and what has changed?

Nothing.

One week after America is struck by God's Hand, the Pervert in Chief George W. Bush swears in an out of the closet, militant homosexual, Michael Guest to be Ambassador to Romania! The representative face of America to Europe is an out of the closet fag! Guest, along with his fag lover, live as husband and wife in the American Embassy in Bucharest, flaunting their perversion at every opportunity, representing America as a fag nation!!

---

I find the rhetoric of these folks to be pretty extreme.

[Robert_Paulson2]

I see your point. There are some similarities...

[Robert_Paulson2]

I guess I can see your point.

[newguy357]

IMO, the fact that they even have a "queer day" is shocking enough

Yes...I went to a phillies game this summer. Never again. Just like I haven't supported disney since I learned of their gay day, the celebration of sodomy, I now refuse to support the phillies.

[newguy357]

Don't you believe the owners of the stadium have the right to market to whoever they want?

Of course, anyone can support or condemn any depravity they choose. Just as the phillies have chosen to support sodomy, I choose to no longer support the phillies. That's the free market for you.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Your Phelps quotes aren't that much different than what spewed forth from the diseased minds of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Alan Keyes after 9/11. Its an interesting comparison.

[Robert_Paulson2]

typically those who make such a stink over the sins of others, have a situation or two in their own closets, waiting to emerge.

Calls to mind the old freeper thread from the late nineties... "hating in the name of God"... which is long gone now too...

[JSteff]

Do they have a Chrisitian Day? Do they have a Hetrosexual day? Why not?

[Robert_Paulson2]

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b273ff10403.htm

seems it has been "reinstated."

[weegee]

The rainbow flag is a sign of political activism just as a nazi swastika flag would be. Some political speech would appear to be protected at the ballpark while dissent will not be tolerated.

Christians who hold their tongue and shut up will be permitted to stay (for now).

[CalvaryJohn]

I thank God that the only thing I have in common with Fred Phelps is a surname. Just damn.

[StoneWallJack]

So any thing goes El'Palpatine?

Why are you and Paulson salivating over the Phelps guy? He is weird and everyone knows that fact. So why are you strawmanning all over the place with this guy?

On the same front, I have to wonder about how you and that guy from LaughIn feel about John the Baptist. He didn't cut any sinful slack during his day - plus eating locusts ain't exactly the coolest thing in the world.

It also appears as if you two have a problem with Christians who are willing to take a stand for their convictions. What's the deal with that?

[PAR35]

Chief Justice Rehnquest might or might not agree with that. See his comments in PRUNEYARD SHOPPING CENTER v. ROBINS, 447 U.S. 74 (1980)

"We conclude that neither appellants' federally recognized property rights nor their First Amendment rights have been infringed by the California Supreme Court's decision recognizing a right of appellees to exercise state-protected rights of expression and petition on appellants' property."

[B-Chan]

You may be on to something there.

Seems like a lot of folks want to inject their materialist atheist positions into our governance these days.

I wonder if they realize that they are sowing the seeds of their own destruction? The founders were wise to recognize the sovereignity of the Jjudeo-Chrstian God as the basis for every aspect of our government.

Can you imagine one of these materialist athiests in a judgeship somewhere? He might actually try to enforce his vision of a pitliless, pointless, meaningless universe of unfeeling matter and blind energy on other people! Married heterosexuals, mothers, pastors, priests and other religious leaders who don't agree with his way of thinking will be victimized, and all with the backing of the state. Why, they might even try to "scientifically" redefine the human being! God only knows where that could lead -- babies could be redefined as "fetal matter", allowing them to be legally killed, butchered and sold by the pound! Old folks could be persuaded to opt for a “final exit” instead of lying around wasting everybody else's time and tax dollars... why, we could even create new kinds of artificial “humans” by genetic egineering, allowing man-man and woman-woman couples to spawn their own young!

Thank God that'll never happen!

[sinkspur]

Since I know nothing about this case, and you've presented no context, who the hell knows how Rehnquist would rule?

If you came on my property with a sign, I could order you off, and you would have to leave. I don't see why the Phillies can't do the same thing.

[Robert_Paulson2]

"Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?"

nope. but a comment.
monorachies, divine right and authority for regimes flowing from a state OUTSIDE our own alliance... is not exactly consistant with the aspirations, hopes and dreams of a democratic republic.

You proud of supporting monarch?
Why?

[TBall]

I always thought Philadelphia was just one big sissy town.

[Robert_Paulson2]

I don't see why the Phillies can't do the same thing.

---

hence the basis of your problem.

Religious extremists have taken over the shouting of the "true conservative" movement... and THEY believe YOU have to let THEM protest on your private property, in your privately leased facillities and basically that you give up your rights to a state that has various elements to dictate, regarding morals, religion, confession, conviction and behavior.

YOU have NO private property or private property rights with these folks. The judge's rotunda? It's theirs. The baseball park? Theirs too. Your own bedroom? NOPE they own it as well...

ANYTHING to legislate their utopian dream of state moralism backed by the "faith d'jour" of whoever managed to wiggle their way into office.

Religion = STATE and vice versa, is their dream. And your private property... is theirs too.

The folks who were once terrified and screamed the loudest at the clintongs as they tried to legislate liberal idiotology into our laws by codification and administrative bureaucracy, are now the very ones demanding the loudest that they can do the same thing today.

privacy, private property and limited governmental power, is only important when the liberals are in power. Once OUR team is in place we will strive to do the exact violation of precept they did, just for our set of pet peeves and idiotocracy.

If it were up to them, the phillies would have to recite the ten commandments before every game... just to remind us of our sinfulness as a nation.

[F16Fighter]

"Your Phelps quotes aren't that much different than what spewed forth from the diseased minds of Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson and Alan Keyes after 9/11."

Oh?? You of course praised the Muslim assassins of 3,000 after 9/11??

Perhaps John Ashcroft's office ought to play it safe and do a check on whether you have a pilot's license.

[B-Chan]

I am philosophically opposed to popular government in any form -- democratic or republican. Popular government is rooted in the humanistic notion vox populi, vox dei, which is itself only a restatement of the lie by which the Serpent deceived Eve in the Garden. It ignores the natural and divinely-instituted order of the Universe, in which authority is delegated to kings by Christ, the King of Kings.

In brief: I am a monarchist because monarchy is the traditional, Western, Judeo-Christian form of government. The idea of popular government has no place in the European, Christian worldview; it is instead a product of the atheistic “enlightenment”, and, when allowed to fester, always results in tyranny of the worst sort. One need only look at the bloody history of the French Republic to see what happens when God is replaced by Reason and Divine Right by the Will of the Masses. Merci, non.

[sinkspur]

YOU have NO private property or private property rights with these folks. The judge's rotunda? It's theirs. The baseball park? Theirs too. Your own bedroom? NOPE they own it as well...

You're right on with this, Robert.

THEY can do what THEY want, but if GAYS want to come on THEIR property, then they SCREAM!

[TBall]

The Phillies can do whatever they want. I'm just glad I'm not a Phillies fan.

[Ford Fairlane]

Uh...I don't know....are they going to have a "CHRISTIAN Community Day?"

St. Louis did

but then you consider the number of good Catholic boys from Dago Hill that played for the Cardinals, they sort of have to

[Republic]

No. I cannot imagine this happening 30 yrs ago. Homosexuality would not have been GIVEN a day at the park in which to troll, shout and take advantage of a corp. giving um a 'special day at the parl'.

They went about it all wrong for the venue-these courageous Christains.

First of all they should have come naked or dressed in the opposite sex 's traditional clothing.

Then they should have held aloft pornographic displays like are shown in homosexual parades, you know, like a ten foot inflated penis, etc. Something to excite and entertain the male homosexuals there.

THEN-perhaps-they might have been able to stay as LONG as they didn't evoke the name of Jesus and mention that there was a way out of homosexual hell (but homosexuals know that anyway).

[Dave S]

Sinkspur's statement that Phelps is highly unlikely to bring anyone to Christ is almost certianly true. If you show up to a funeral with those signs, it is highly unlikely that you will be endearing any of the sinners to Christ. What's the point in that?

They are probably also hurting friends and family who may have disagreed with their loved ones lifestyle but still loved them anyway. Only people like Phelps would not mourn over the death of a gay son. At an emotional time such a funeral, Im surprised some parent hasnt decked the "Rev."

[PAR35]

A bunch of high school kids went on private property (a shopping center) to gather signatures on a petition to get the U.S out of the U.N. The shopping center objected. I quoted from the C.J.'s opinion holding that the student's rights to express themselves trumped the property owner's rights.

I qualified it as a predictor on how he might rule today, since it did have some unique elements of state law involved, and his views may have changed over the last two decades.

You might also check out the current situation involving Wal-Mart. That company no longer permits groups to advocate or solicit (with a few narrow exceptions) on store property, fearing that if they did allow a beneign group, they would have to allow any group (particularly the meat cutter's union) to express itself in front of the store.

Thus, your contention that a property owner has absolute control over the content of speech on the property may be a desirable goal, but is overly simplified from a legal perspective.

[sinkspur]

You of course praised the Muslim assassins of 3,000 after 9/11??

CP didn't. But Phelps blamed America for 9/11 and said we deserved what we got.

As did Falwell and Robertson, until their supporters convinced them that, if they wanted coin, they'd backtrack. So, they backtracked.

You think America was to blame for 9/11?

[sinkspur]

Thus, your contention that a property owner has absolute control over the content of speech on the property may be a desirable goal, but is overly simplified from a legal perspective.

Perhaps. We'll see if these four sign-holders decide to shell out the bucks to take this to the Supreme Court. I'd wager they won't.

[F16Fighter]

"If it were up to them, the phillies would have to recite the ten commandments before every game... just to remind us of our sinfulness as a nation."

This absurb hyperbolic statement is just as ridiculous as claiming your ilk should demand semi-naked midgets sing 'My-Ding-a-Ling during the 7th inning stretch, while hairy-tattoed men in leather G-strings make out on the pitchers mound just to "prove" the Phillies domain is theirs, and "theirs only."

This is a matter of decency and respect for a family game, tradition, and venue -- unless you believe decency and respect in this regard is "relative"?

[PAR35]

There is a statement I can agree with - unless some group looking for publicity decides to fund it.

[longtermmemmory]

So if they had a banner that said "Phillies are Wrong" would be ok.

What about the spcific passage numbers that are put on posters at various events?

Does not philidelphia have "orientation" protection? Religious and political speech protection? Oh wait that is only for politically correct though sanction events. What is sanction thought? Whatever the left says it is.

They might as well have polygamy day.
Wife swaper day.
Bondage night.
or what ever other sexual fetish you could think of.

The Philies must really be in desperate financial problems if they want to be known as the homosexual team.


Given the studies in the mass media that suggest the human brain is developing well into the late twenties, it would suggest parents should be conserned over recruiting of their children during their teenage brain development. (what surprised me was that the frontal lobe's self control centers are the last area to develope.)

[Victoria Delsoul]

"We basically questioned them, asking if they could have their banners, why couldn't we have ours. They said 'Well, it's the content of the message,'" Marcavage explains.

Right, people should be tolerant of homosexual's intolerance.

[Robert_Paulson2]

Well maybe then, just a statue on home plate could be honored before each game... after all it's an american game, tradition and culture... what a place to put a monolith with the decalogue on it, and it would remind that nasty homeplate umpire, to not cheat on calling those errant sliders, strikes.

roflmao...

the midget stuff was pretty funny I must admit. but I am not homosexual... so the "your ilk" accusation was uncalled for.

[fortunecookie]

Likely just the wind howling through the vast emptiness where a brain should have been.

LOL! Indeed.

[F16Fighter]

"Phelps blamed America for 9/11 and said we deserved what we got...As did Falwell and Robertson..."

Maybe you'd like to provide proof of your claim?

[xzins]

Is there ANY public money AT ALL that goes to the Phillies stadium?

These folks need to contact the Rutherford Institute.

[sinkspur]

Maybe you'd like to provide proof of your claim?

You must not remember. OK. I'm not interested enough in this subject to go rummaging around for quotes.

Believe it, or not.

[longtermmemmory]

interesting point. Are the police authorized to arrest on this property? Some of the public/private venues are legally treated as a public park. They can't exclude those who are of a religious group, race, or any number of other civil rights. Since the "owners" established a permission for pro-sexual fetish messages, it only stands to reason the peaceful contrary messages should be allowed. There was no indication that the "offending" banner in any way interfeared with homosexual activity in the stands.

[xzins]

I'm willing to bet a cup of coffee from Starbucks that Phillies Stadium receives considerable PUBLIC MONEY.

[nmh]

So much for the First Amendment. Hey, they'd better get their rocks off on this earth since when they die, and stand before God, there will be no one defending them.

[F16Fighter]

"I am not homosexual...[T]he "your ilk" accusation was uncalled for."

I did mean to infer that you were gay; Your "ilk" refered to you and others who see strong objections and outrage to a 'Gay Day' as a religious fascist movement which condones eminent domain of private property. This of course is total bullsh*t.

A baseball game at Veteran Stadium is neither the place nor venue to shove up the @ss of fans who only want to watch a baseball game a forced political homage of an aberrant life-style.

[F16Fighter]

"OK. I'm not interested enough in this subject to go rummaging around for quotes."

Naah -- didn't think so.

[nmh]

"Meanwhile...30,000 other Christians got to stay."

The bad news is this ... to be a homosexual is NOT to be a Christian. According to the Bible and the teachings of God, being a homosexual is an "abomination" in His eyes.

Just curious, how do you explain, those staying, homosexuals are "Christians" when they completely disregards the teachings of Christianity?

[nmh]

No doubt about that:

"Another sign of how close we are to the end of sin, sickness, disease, death, and all the other works of the devil."

What's applauded is evil and even what is laughed at like marriage is ridiculed.

[ItsJeff]

... the Culture and Family Institue points out that health statistics indicate that those in the homosexual life-style only live to the average age of 46 --

You know that's bunk, right? This "research" was originally provided by the Family Research Counsel. They did it by looking at the obits of three gay newspapers over the course of one year during the late 1980's, the height of AIDS. They took the mean age of the obits and came up with the "46" number. Junk science at its worst.

[F16Fighter]

"Since the 'owners' established a permission for pro-sexual fetish messages, it only stands to reason the peaceful contrary messages should be allowed."

This may be the start of a new trend...

Perverted or politically subversive leaning sports owners of 60,000 seat stadiums will now be able to provide the same kind of "entertainment" the Romans once provided. Guess it's now their call. Who cares about a 10 year old who want to watch a home run?

Lions and Christians, and porno stars and snakes -- stay tuned. You may soon become the "show" if some have their way.

[Robert_Paulson2]

"But Phelps blamed America for 9/11 and said we deserved what we got."

yes indeed and falwell and robertson agreed with osami and phelps that the destruction of the twin towers and the death of thousands of innocents, was the "judgement of God' on our nation. Imagine that, AGREEING with islamikazi murderor that GOD was killing our people. Of course, God missed most of the evil doers in New York if HE was really "in charge" of allowing this "operation by agent double "O"sama.

the only aspect of it that he DID allow, was to allow whatever we allowed... and we had allowed our air corridors and travel safety rules to go unattended for a long long time. We still have our borders wide open.

God is capable of killing each and every one of his "targetted" evil doers while letting the innocent sitting right next to them, clean escape... HE knew about precision jdams, long before we did. Were it the LORD judging a person, EACH person would carry their own guilt... not the fathers for the sons or vice versa.

Don't play darts with God, he always gets a bull's eye...
But the religiocrats DID make BIG money off the offerings and "special gifts" that the "faithful" sent in!

A good friend of mine did an extra 40 plus "newsletter emergency" fundraising letters in the interim.

BIG money.