Scientists Retract Second Drug (Ecstasy) Study

Baltimore Sun ^ | Sept. 12 2003

[SupplySider]

You are talking to monkeys. The organ grinder is an insane libertarian ethos.

I sometimes wonder if the libertarian philosophy is held because it supports the drug usage. Sometimes the paranoid cast of the arguments makes me suspect this. I am not pointing to MrLeroy or anyone in particular, but I have noticed this. I respect principled libertarians.

[jayef]

USDA Stamped Marijuana? No thanks. You read about the crap that the Canadian Gubmint is dealing?

[MrLeRoy]

Once two teens decide to have sex, they don't need to acquire any illegal-for-teens merchandise, whereas once a teen decides to use drugs he does need to acquire illegal-for-teens merchandise.

That seems to argue that legalization would indeed make it easier for teens to use these substances.

Not at all, as I went on to argue.

Why would the market be "flooded"?

without fines and jail terms, it would be more available everywhere

That's a much less extreme statement than "flooded."

and therefore more available to young people.

But sellers would have a new economic incentive to not sell to kids---namely, the risk of losing their legal adult business.

That's a good point. However, teens, I believe, have an easier time getting alcohol from adults than illegal drugs.

The opposite is true: "teens find marijuana easier to buy than cigarettes and alcohol." - National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse (CASA) at Columbia University, CASA 2002 Teen Survey

Relegalization need send no such message.

Kids with great parents might not worry, but many kids are not astute on these topics. I think they would get a message, "It's not all that bad, after all they legalized it".

Perhaps---but I can't support restricting the freedoms of all adults, including the great parents, because some kids are poorly parented.

I am curious if you believe that these substances are, in general, dangerous to young people.

Yes, as are the deadly addictive legal drugs alcohol and tobacco.

[jmc813]

I sometimes wonder if the libertarian philosophy is held because it supports the drug usage.

I personally have noticed several members of the Libertarian Party who seemed to be in it simply for their drug legalization platforms, and did not give a hoot about other libertarian philosiphies such as gun rights, cutting social programs, etc. This is part of the reason why I've chosen to remain a Republican "small-l libertarian".

[jayef]

How does an inanimate object become evil? Are guns evil? Is a plate of pasta evil? Is a cheeseburger evil?

[SupplySider]

I see your point, but there are many teens who don't think they are commiting suicide when they start on drugs. As their brain chemistry deteriorates, some reach a point of no return. I'd rather give them a loud and clear message about the danger of what they are doing. Many of them don't know they are taking a metaphorical hammer to the brain.

[Ken H]

Unrestricted distribution by physicians and pharmacies created an enormous drug abuse problem; in 1924 federal narcotics officials estimated that there were 200,000 addicts in the United States drugtext.org

Fast forward to 1999.

There were an estimated 980,000 hardcore heroin addicts in the United States in 1999, 50 percent more than the estimated 630,000 hardcore addicts in 1992. DEA figures for heroin addiction 1999

[and the horse you rode in on]

I see your point, but there are many teens who don't think they are commiting suicide when they start on drugs. As their brain chemistry deteriorates, some reach a point of no return.

That is what evolution is all about.

[jayef]

All the evidence points to the exact opposite effect.

[Xenalyte]

"Loonytarian" . . . . what a hoot. Did you make it up all by yourself?

[carenot]

Years ago I read that Holland has very gay friendly laws for it's military.

Odd, years ago, I read that the US Military is friendly to gays.

[dennisw]

Does this mean that you support the Federal government setting policy for all of the states?...........


For some laws yes. When the feds are better at tracking and jailing international drug rings, then great. You are aware there are Federal anti drug laws. That the state anti drug laws vary from state to state.

I am well aware of the 10th.

[MrLeRoy]

I'd rather give them a loud and clear message about the danger of what they are doing.

I'm all for doing that---but without restricting the liberties of adults.

[MrLeRoy]

I am well aware of the 10th.

So you know that the federal government has no Constitutional authority over the intrastate making, distributing, selling, buying, or using of any drug.

[dennisw]

So you know that the federal government has no Constitutional authority over the intrastate making, distributing, selling, buying, or using of any drug.

How often do the Feds bust those who operate their drug pushing business solely within one state? You tell me.

[MrLeRoy]

How often do the Feds bust those who operate their drug pushing business solely within one state?

To those who respect the Constitution, once is too often.

[dennisw]

So you have no facts for your lameo accusation.

[MrLeRoy]

What "accusation"?

[=Intervention=]

You basically set up two systems of morality here. It's the old "do as I say not as I do" argument. That has zero traction with kids. After all, underage drinking is a nonexistent problem, right? Face it -- legalization for adults will mean legalization for kids.

[bc2]

any child in 2003 over the age of 12 that doesn't know that tobacco, narcotics, alcohol, cheeseburgers, driving without a seatbelt, and lack of excersize are all unhealthy, is a child who has lived under a rock.