Limbaugh stands by McNabb race remarks

AP | 10/01/03 | ROB MAADDI

[dwd1]

Let me explain why it bothers me... He made that assertion that McNabb is overrated simply because he is black and the media gives him special treatment because they have an investment in seeing a black quarterback do good...

I have asked several times and with no reply... Is there a possibility that Donovan McNabb (assuming he is overrated and given preferential treatment) is treated a certain way because he is nice to reporters and photogenic...

What evidence is there (he who asserts must prove) that there is a left wing conspiracy to treat black quarterbacks a certain way....

He offered none and when given the chance to step up and defend the position, he resigned and retreated behind his talk show mike...

Also, when one makes sweeping generalizations about any group without supporting facts and data and attributes negative opinions to an entire group based on the actions of a few, such a person is at best unprofessional and at worst a racist... We can discuss that as long as you like...

Factor in that he has jump to the worst conclusion about minorities and certain people(Kobe, Tupac Shakur, Jim Brown, etc) while defending others that are unsympathetic or that espouse racist views (Trent Lott), ( I was wondering what he had to say about the congressman who killed the motorcyclist), one could argue that he could be perceived as a racist and that he made a racist statement...

You want to say that just because some people agree with him that he is not a racist, work out....

[dwd1]

And I am sure that if you asked Warren Moon, Doug Williams, Jeff Blake, Quincy Carter, Daunte Culpepper, Jeff George, Rodney Peete, Randall Cunningham, or any other person who has played the position, I think you may find they are not to happy about it...

It would be the same if I said that Jason Sehorn is overrated and being treated preferentially because he is playing Cornerback (Yes, I know he is moving to safety) and is white(Check and you will see that most starting corners in the NFL are black).... Did Jason Sehorn get treated so well because he is white and playing a position that has seen more black than white players in recent years or did he get rated based on his work and his effort on the field... Or is it that he is married to Angie Harmon and everyone in the media wants to have an affair with her?

Yes, if Michael Irvin made that type of comment about Jason Sehorn, I think I would have to say that he is making a racist statement... Please tell me where I am wrong...

[dwd1]

The basic problem that I have is that Rush offered no evidence that Black Quarterbacks are being hyped unfairly and that if they are being hyped unfairly, the primary reason is their race.... He who asserts must prove, not go to their talk show and further their position without opposition and then resign when it gets a little hot in the announcing booth...

[dwd1]

The basic problem that I have is that Rush offered no evidence that Black Quarterbacks are being hyped unfairly and that if they are being hyped unfairly, the primary reason is their race.... He who asserts must prove, not go to their talk show and further their position without opposition and then resign when it gets a little hot in the announcing booth...

[dwd1]

The basic problem that I have is that Rush offered no evidence that Black Quarterbacks are being hyped unfairly and that if they are being hyped unfairly, the primary reason is their race.... He who asserts must prove, not go to their talk show and further their position without opposition and then resign when it gets a little hot in the announcing booth...

[JohnnyZ]

Also, when one makes sweeping generalizations about any group without supporting facts and data and attributes negative opinions to an entire group based on the actions of a few, such a person is at best unprofessional and at worst a racist...

So you're saying Rush is racist against sports writers? I wasn't aware that was a race.

I have previously stated that without an extensive media study it is impossible to prove either way -- heck even WITH an extensive media study it'd be damn near impossible -- that race is part of why McNabb is overrated. But both sides can offer opinions, and that's what Rush did, he offered his. I find it logical based on what we know about White Guilt, the left-leaning media, and backlash against the "blacks can't be QBs" myth. If you think it's more logical to assert that all sportswriters are color blind, the same people who harp about #s of black coaches etc, then you are living in denial or have never read the multitude of race-conscious sports & society columns. Coming from the Boston sports market as I do, I can tell you race is an obsession of sports writers there, and I'll bet it is very prominent elsewhere too.

[dwd1]

In stating the reasons that McNabb is overrated, he could have given 10 reasons that have nothing to do with media bias or race... In other words, he did not need to bring it up because there is no study or evidence to support his position on this specific athlete...

Concerning race in the media, I believe there is a bias... I think that with celebrities, certain groups are hyped more when they are doing well and kicked harder when they mess up...

I just think that if that was to be the discussion, then let someone state that is the subject, get all the parties together, and work out the drama...

I say again that I want to see him stand up and say what you just said.... However, if he does that, then he is going to have to apologize for what he said because he made an assertion that is offensive (perception) that has no basis in fact (as you just admitted).... It is just his opinion... He could take a lesson from a long list of people who state an opinion and then take responsibility for it....

Going all the way back to the Olympics, Boxing, Baseball, Integration, Title IX, I agree that race is an issue.... I also know that responsible journalists tend to base their opinion and writings based on what has been studied and verified... Not based on that which has been suggested on a talk show... I say again... His mistake is that he has gotten spoiled in the amount of lattitude he is given on his show....

He could make this right so easily by standing up and being interviewed about his views...

That is what the rest of us have to do....(or should he receiving preferential treatment because he is conservative?)

[Almondjoy]

Sigh.. another football fan pretender on the scene.

First off Dante who had a horrible season last year is only in his 4th year in the league. You can't compare that kind of experience with a Brett Favre. None the less good ole Dante has learned from his past mistakes. He has led the team to 3 victories(Gus came in late in the 3rd when Minnesota was already winning). He was hurt by a cheap shot to the back when he was already a good 4 or 5 feet into the end zone. More importantly he's not making the interception mistakes he did last year. He's maturing and a good QB.

A comment about Vick. Vick didn't get hurt scrambling.. he was hurt when he was flushed to the right of the pocket.. he was looking to pass and went down. You might want to review your films again.

Aaron Brooks looks horrible this year. Granted I think he's a decent QB.. but he's struggling this year.. all QB's have bad years.

You think Jeff Garcia is one of the best QB's in the league? I think this automatically disqualifies you from who the great's are. You mention Jeff's name but don't put Peyton Manning in the top 3? Jeff Garcia is not overrated by any means but he is not a top 3 QB.. SF has had the benefits of a sound offense(WR's and RB's) have always been strong. What makes Jeff good is that he is a competitor.. he lays his body out on the line for the win.. just as he's playing with a back that is hurt alot worse then he is letting on.

Bledsoe is an outstanding QB. Even with NE towards the end of his time there he did well with a receiving core that was a joke and a non existant running game. He has shown in Buffalo that his arm is one of the strongest to ever play the game. He's definitely top 3.

McNair could very well be the BEST QB in the league right now. The guy is quick(although he's become less of runner and more of pocket passer, espically this year). No one can argue how tough the guy is. Most importantly he's a winner. His receievers are average at best. Eddie George is just finely starting to get over his injuries and return to old form.. yet the guy wins. At the end of day all that matters is the scoreboard. McNair gets that done.

[Almondjoy]

One more remark since I re-read your post again.

Gus has had a horrible career.. if you want to bank it on stats you might as well compare him to Jeff Blake. To compare Mcnabb to a Jeff Blake you might as well call them both Ryan Leaf.

You probably also think Jerry Rice is an average receiever.

[steve8714]

The technique used by Rush's enemies has nothing to do with asserting and proving. Only on FR are there reasonable critics. All else are shrill echoes of "Rush is a racist because he is a Conservative".

[Greg Luzinski]

Agree with your basic points here, and your inclusion of last year's Pro Bowl Eagles is helpful.

Re. "a pro player can lose that 'it'," the jury's definitely still out on McNabb. (If I'm not mistaken, Warner [note: injury problems] has not led the Rams to a win since the NFC Championship two seasons ago.)

Below is a summary of the five regular-season and postseason performances McNabb has had since he had the pretty bad injury last year.

Divisional Round of last year's playoffs vs. Atlanta last January: OK performance in ridiculously cold weather. Eagles won and advanced in the playoffs.

NFC Championship last year vs. Bucs: Bad performance against eventual Super Bowl Champions and one of the best defenses ever.

Week 1 this season vs. Bucs: Very bad performance against Super Bowl Champions and one of the best defenses ever.

Week 2 this season vs. Patriots: Horrendous performance (regularly failing to see open receivers, fumbles, missing open receivers by 5+ yards) against team that won the Super Bowl the year before last.

Week 4 (Eagles had Week 3 off) this season vs. Bills: Decent performance in Eagles win on the road.

[dwd1]

If you want to argue that he has been treated unfairly because of his statement, I have no problem with that... I think he is also being run off because of the politically correct climate gone amuck... I still say that his fate was in his hands. He really should have gone on sportscenter, Larry King, O'Reilly, Hannity & Colmes, anyplace and defended his position....

And bring facts, not a liberal media bias accusation... Otherwise, he is doing the same thing they are doing...

The biggest mistake that he made in all of this is that he as a journalist or commentator became the story....

The story is supposed to be about the game, the crowd, and the players.... Not the commentator....
Going based on personal feeling as opposed to thoughtful conclusions based on data, stats, and extensive personal observation of the players and writers he may make a statement about....

Everyone has the right to their opinion but no one has the right to be wrong in their facts....

Once again, I must quote Sgt Friday... "Just the Facts, sir. Just the facts!!!"

[steve8714]

Warner has been playing behind a fat, overpaid offensive line that has been a hidden shame here for three years.
Orlando Pace is like a traffic cone on pass plays because he is not in shape, having missed training camp. Early last year it was the same thing.
Because Warner's skills are cerebral(see the field, recognize and react quickly)concussion is an especially tough thing for him to recover from. Every time he is hit he is slammed to the turf, and usually given a little extra. Decent defensive lines have a field day against the Lambs.

[JohnnyZ]

Concerning race in the media, I believe there is a bias... I think that with celebrities, certain groups are hyped more when they are doing well and kicked harder when they mess up...

So you're claiming that the media is race-biased, just like Rush said. You just agreed with him.

Posit: McNabb is overrated. Many agree with this.

Question: Why is he overrated?

There is no way to "prove" why he's overrated, outside of a massive media survey and psychological examination of sports writers, and even then it'd be iffy. So by your logic, no one can say he's overrated because he has a nice smile, because they have no solid facts to back it up, just an opinion based on observation. In fact, no one can discuss it at all, because their opinions likely can't be proven. No opinions should be allowed on TV or in print unless they can be factually proven. And if someone offers an opinion, they should apologize and be fired. No more discussion of "who's the best center fielder ever" on ESPN. It's opinion.

Oh, and apparently any allegation of racial bias is itself racist.

Do I have your philosophy down to a T or what?

[bk1000]

"Good grief. This wasn't a racist statement. Rush simply said out loud what everybody knows -- there's a racial double standard in the media. Maybe the people doing it are well-intentioned, maybe not. But all he said was that McNabb was overrated, and maybe the racial double standards was the reason."

Corporate America fears nothing more than the 'R' word.
Truth is not a factor. They will cut and run at the slightest inferrence of racism.

[dwd1]

BTW, being racist is not about conservative or liberal as there are racists everywhere you go... Being racist is about jumping to the wrong conclusion about someone based on preconceived ideas about a group.... I am no authority on racism but I will quote that Supreme Court Justice regarding Pornography... " I can't define it, but I know it when I see it...."

One of the reasons that I want to see Rush defend his views is because it is hard being black and conservative and explaining that someone who makes statements that can at least be perceived by some as racist is not what conservativism is all about...

He has ideas which you and I can agree or disagree with but he is not the epitome of conservatism as far as I am concerned....

By the way, he brought the subject up... No one else there was looking for a media bias or race preference discussion... It should have stayed that way...

[dwd1]

What I stated is my opinion but I would never represent that and then not stand up and answer to anyone that wants to ask why I said what I said...

I said that I believe there is media bias... I did not say that I believe that the specific bias which he alleges is indeed fact... And you have conceded that there is nothing to prove or disprove his stated opinion... He should not be representing that as fact...

I could also say that I agree with some of the things that the Dixie Chicks said but I sure do not agree with the way they said what they said...

I don't mind being honest and stating my opinion but I tend to keep my opinion to myself or abstain from discussion when on national TV... I would be a lot more responsible to stating facts that can be proven and stating opinions based on facts....

And I certainly would not resign if I made a statement many disagree with without taking on those who disagree with me...

I would not be scared of facing them no more than I am scared of facing you...

[philosofy123]

It started out with Howard Cousel, he kept praising Mohammad Ali, the traitor who converted to Islam. Before, you know it; Ali is now called the most sport reporters the most significant sport figure?

During Ali's fights, there was lots of intimidation to his opponents in order that the chosen champion wins! Sports is full of corruption. Social engineering by the liberals is, and has always been unchecked

[dwd1]

Also, concerning my philosophy, you should also state that I try to consider whether my statements would make someone feel as though they are being judged unfairly... Also, I would try not to burn bridges as I would want to be able to talk to and discuss my views with anyone...

Everything you mention can be discussed as far I am concerned. The race issue can also be concerned... What I have a problem with is his discussion of an issue without giving the accused a chance to respond...

When we are talking about the talent of a player and his skills, I think there is this thing called statistics... We have film to show his skill and attitude when playing... We can obtain the opinion of his colleague and opponents to evaluate subjective issues...

All I am saying is that I believe discussions on televisions should be open and honest but also responsible... The best and most accurate information should be considered especially when a sensitive issue such as race (which for some reason, tends to be a sore subject in this country) is discussed....

and I say again, don't hide behind a talk show mike and make assertions that you are not capable of supporting with a reasonable amount of supporting information and commentary...

I do not think you understand me that well. The only thing you see now is someone with a different point of view and you feel a need to say unpleasant things and classify me with some label so that I will go away quietly... Good luck... I am not leaving town just yet..

[JohnnyZ]

I don't mind being honest and stating my opinion but I tend to keep my opinion to myself or abstain from discussion when on national TV

That's what analysts and announcers do. They are paid to give their opinions and their analysis, some based on fact, some not.

And you have conceded that there is nothing to prove or disprove his stated opinion... He should not be representing that as fact...

He's representing it as his opinion. Some think it's true, some think it isn't. It would be difficult or impossible to prove it either way.

Rush made very clear where he stood in his resignation statement and in his follow-up on his radio show.

I could also say that I agree with some of the things that the Dixie Chicks said but I sure do not agree with the way they said what they said...

Yeah yeah, you're a flaming liberal, we get the picture . . .