Fátima to become interfaith shrine

The Portugese News ^ | 11/01/03

[sinkspur]

In short, I think this quote you have such a fondness for has been taken out of context and is of questionable provenence.

OK. You're entitled to "think" whatever you want.

I found it in three different places on Google. There is little doubt that she said it at least twice.

[Grigeo]

"A savage ape, covered with black or red hair.."

One wonders where you first ran across it, "deacon."

The deacon was just doing some research on his progenitors.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Well, well, well, well. Didn't you say it's rude to mention someone without pinging them?? Or do the rules only apply to everyone else but you?

[sinkspur]

Didn't you say it's rude to mention someone without pinging them??

It is, and I'm sorry I didn't ping you. My mistake.

See how easy it is to apologize, Debbie?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

If I ever mention you by name and fail to ping you I will apologize.

[Antoninus]

I heard Mother Teresa say it herself in a speech at the Tarrant County Convention Center Theatre in May of 1976, when she visited Fort Worth.

So let's see, we've got: your own memory (questionable), a large variety of virulently anti-Catholic web sites (questionable), and and a book by some flaky eastern religions/gestalt broad as references for this quote.

Pardon me for remaining unconvinced. I'd like to see the quote directly from Desmond Doig's 1976 biography with the relevant context. Trying to use this quote to insinuate that Mother Theresa was a syncretist or a universalist is dispicable if you ask me. Since then, I've seen it all over the place.

[sinkspur]

Well, here.

Go to this Ultra-Trad website to see what they think of Mother Teresa.

Marion Horvat is a bunker-buddie with Michael Matt and Thomas Woods, they of the "We will resist you to your Face" movement.

[Antoninus]

Marion Horvat is a bunker-buddie with Michael Matt and Thomas Woods, they of the "We will resist you to your Face" movement.

Why do you think that site would convince me of anything? They're practically as virulent as the anti-Catholic evangelicals. As with most great Catholics, Mother Theresa was hated and envied by many--even some ostensibly within the Church.

"Blessed are you when they hate and persecute you for my sake."

As for you, "deak," I think you'd be wise to put that quote on the shelf. It puts you in very bad company.

[potlatch]

all the religions of the world will gather to pay homage to their various gods.

This is stomach churning! What are they thinking of?? If other religions went there to honor Our Lady, it would be wonderful, but 'various Gods'!!!

[fatima]

Thanks for the ping,I have been to Fatima 2 times and have met many non-catholics there.It is a Catholic Shrine and Our Lady's words all lead to becoming a better catholic.I don't understand their point," The Shrine's rector, Monsignor Luciano Guerra, told the Congress that Fátima "will change for the better." Addressing Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Orthodox, Buddhist and African Pagan representatives he stated: "The future of Fátima, or the adoration of God and His mother at this holy Shrine, must pass through the creation of a shrine where different religions can mingle."
What kind of a shrine are they talking about and who is paying for it?Does this have approval from Rome,something doesn't sound right.I work with a siritual director of the approved group for Fatima and will ask him tom.

[Cvengr]

"Delegates attending the Vatican and United Nations (UN) inspired annual interfaith congress "The Future of God", .."

Psssst: for all UN advocates: Two well acknowledged attributes of God are His immutable and eternal nature. Your congress must be rather long and lacking in diversity. If it isn't, then one might want to reconsider exactly what person is being congressed en lieu of God.

[Cvengr]

Thank You for the post. It's informative as to what some will claim to be a worship of God actually promotes a counterfeit system to His plan.

[lainde]

This is truly dismaying!

[NYer]

" One of the principle speakers, the Jesuit theologian Father Jacques Dupuis, was insistent that the religions of the world must unite. "The religion of the future will be a general converging of religions in a universal Christ that will satisfy all", he said. The Belgium born theologian argued: "The other religious traditions in the world are part of God's plan for humanity and the Holy Spirit is operating and present in Buddhist, Hindu and other sacred writings of Christian and non-Christian faiths as well." In an impassioned plea he said: "The universality of God's kingdom permits this, and this is nothing more than a diversified form of sharing in the same mystery of salvation. In the end it is hoped that the Christian will become a better Christian and each Hindu a better Hindu." "

From OurLadysWarriors web site ...

Information Related to Dissident Spirituality and Morality

The following types of spirituality are defined and presented so that one may see their influence on dissenter spirituality. While the genuine Catholic focus of spirituality is sanctity (growth in holiness - become like Jesus - perfect as Our Heavenly Father is perfect), dissenters focus on a vague definition of spirituality. You will be shocked at the large degree of radical dissenter religious beliefs shared with pagans.  There are common threads of sacred nature (eco- or bio-spirituality) since nature is a god or god-like and that we are "one with creation." While none of this paganism is remotely Catholic, haven't many seen classes advertised in the parish bulletin for the Enneagram, Tai-Chi, or yoga for example?

Title	Author	Topics
Current Situation of Faith and Theology	Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger	Read this first! Cardinal Ratzinger masterfully explains the influence of various forms of Marxism and paganism on the spiritual environment of today's age.
Paganism	Catholic Encyclopedia	A broad set of belief systems in which creation is worshipped and in which a belief in many gods (polytheism) is held. Nature worship can include as it objects, the sun, stars, moon, animals, water, earth, or any other creating thing. Gaia, Mother Earth, and Sacred Creation are examples of earth worship. In addition, spirit worship is also possible. The Renew 2000 prayer of directions calls on many spirits, none of which exist in Catholic doctrine.
Hinduism	Catholic Encyclopedia	In Hinduism it is of minor importance what sort of worship is adopted, provided one recognizes the supremacy of the Brahmins and the sacredness of Brahmin customs and traditions. In the pantheistic all-god Brahma, the whole world of deities, spirits, and other objects of worship is contained, so that Hinduism adapts itself to every form of religion, from the lofty monotheism of the cultivated Brahmin to the degraded nature-worship of the ignorant savage.
Pantheism	Catholic Encyclopedia	The view according to which God and the world are one. Emanationism may easily take on a pantheistic meaning and as pointed out in the Encyclical "On the Doctrine of the Modernists," the same is true of the modern doctrine of immanence. Note that the Bishops gave the original Renew a failing grade because of its overly heavy bias on immanence. Renew 2000 is not much different.
Buddhism	Catholic Encyclopedia	The religious, monastic system, founded c. 500 B.C. on the basis of pantheistic Brahmanism. This movement starts with the same morbid view that conscious life is a burden and not worth the living, and that true happiness is to be had only in a state like dreamless sleep free from all desires, free from conscious action (Nirvana). It believes in the doctrine of an endless chain of births (reincarnation).
Brahminism	Catholic Encyclopedia	The complex religion and social system which grew out of the polytheistic nature-worship of the ancient Aryan conquerors of northern India. Early on, personified forces of nature in the form of many deities were worshipped. Later it turned pantheistic. It's modern form is Hinduism.
Taoism	Catholic Encyclopedia	Taoism is the Religion of Heaven and Earth, of the Cosmos, of the World or Nature in the broadest sense of these words. Hence it can be called "Naturism."
Gnosticism	Catholic Encyclopedia	A collective name for a large number of greatly-varying and pantheistic-idealistic sects, which flourished from some time before the Christian Era down to the fifth century. It borrowed some of the tenets of the chief religions of the day and especially of Christianity. It believed that matter is a deterioration of spirit, and the whole universe is a depravation of the Deity, and taught the ultimate end of all being to be the overcoming of the grossness of matter and the return to the Parent-Spirit, which return they held to be inaugurated and facilitated by the appearance of some God-sent Savior.
A Call to Vigilance: Pastoral Instruction on the New Age	Archbishop Norberto Rivera Carrera	In his pastoral letter, the primate of Mexico examines the origins and content of the New Age movement, the reasons for its rapid spread, its incompatibility with the Gospel, and the responsibility of all Catholics to counteract its influence.
Theosophy	Bruce Sabalaskey	Essentially a modern version of Gnosticism. The name is a compound Greek word: theos, a "divine being," a "god"; sophia, "wisdom"; hence divine wisdom. Much of New Age spirituality is drawn from Theosophy.
Wicca (Witchcraft by a new name)	Catholic Encyclopedia	A form of Paganism which worships gods and goddesses and sacred nature.
Gaia, Mother Earth, Sacred Creation	Bruce Sabalaskey	Pagan names for an earth which is sacred and, if Pantheism is also followed, "one" with us and also a god. These names are always found with capital letters connoting the "being" of the earth. One does not capitalize the names of things.
Feminist Spirituality, Feminist Theology, Eco-Feminism	Bruce Sabalaskey	A detailed discussion is to be provided. See the Vocabulary of Terms Commonly used by Dissenters  for a short treatment.
Sophia Wisdom, Sophia Christ	(Coming)	Sophia is the feminine goddess of Wisdom. Sophia is found in Gnosticism and Theosophy, and commonly in any pagan religion which worships goddesses such as Wicca.
Creation Spirituality	(Coming)	The title says a great deal, that being a spirituality focused on creation rather than God. This spirituality has much in common with pagan Wicca (Witchcraft), which is also focused on worshipping creation. This, of course, is against the First Commandment.
Chakras	Bruce Sabalaskey	"Energy points" in your body derived from Hindu spirituality, including gods and goddesses. This concept is contained in many New Age and eastern religion based activities, such as Yoga and Reiki.
Yoga: Health or Stealth?	The Cross and the Veil	Yoga, meaning union or yoking in Sanskrit, is one system of Indian (Hindu) philosophy. The practitioner of yoga seeks to yoke himself to the universal spirit through a complex, ancient science of philosophic meditation and self-purification (asceticism ).
Healing Touch	The Cross and the Veil	Described as "energy-based healing therapies from a Judeo-Christian perspective," Healing Touch is a New Age eastern religion based concept. Many reference materials are New Age based, and the "energy" concept is that of Chakras. (Off site)
Reiki and Tantric Magic: Healing or Hell?	The Cross and the Veil	Another "energy-based" New Age eastern spirituality healing system based on channeling performed by those trained by masters with special knowledge (Gnosticism), and conscience expanding meditation. The "energy" concept is that of Chakras.
Centering Prayer: Catholic Meditation or Occult Meditation?	The Cross and the Veil	An attempt at "Christianizing" the Eastern religion based prayer on Transcendental Meditation. Usually pagan influenced spirituality centers will sponsor all of Enneagrams, Centering Prayer, and Labyrinths.
Labyrinth	(Coming)	Another pagan based prayer method to guide you to "the Source." According to Lessons for Living, "A labyrinth is an ancient symbol that relates to wholeness. ... The Labyrinth represents a journey to our own center and back again out into the world. ... A labyrinth is an archetype [Jungian term] with which we can have a direct experience. ... It is a metaphor for life's journey. It is a symbol that creates a sacred space and place and takes us out of our ego to 'That Which Is Within.'" Usually pagan influenced spirituality centers will sponsor all of Enneagrams, Centering Prayer, and Labyrinths.
Enneagram	Bruce Sabalaskey	New Age pagan tool with occult roots which purportedly categorizes your personality to tell you how to obtain health ("integration") and avoid neurosis ("disintegration"). Usually pagan influenced spirituality centers will sponsor all of Enneagrams, Centering Prayer, and Labyrinths.
Toronto Blessing	EWTN	A little treatise on the Toronto Blessing, also referred to as The Anointing, Revival, or Father's Blessing. (Off site)
Fundamental Option	Fr. Stephen F. Torraco	"Fundamental option" refers to a theory of morals according to which each person gradually develops in a basic orientation of his or her life, either for or against God. ... the Holy See issued a formal declaration, "Persona Humana," in which certain theories involving the idea of the fundamental option were condemned."

FULL TEXT - DISSENT

[NYer]

Is this the same symbolism that is depicted at the new monstrosity in the Cathedral (aka Taj Mahoney) in Los Angeles, Ca?

OurLadysWarriors now lists Cardinal Mahony on their Dissenting Authors & Speakers List.

"Sponsors a "Religious Education Congress" stuffed to the gills with dissenting speakers. The recent session on April 7-9, 2000 had those such as: Sr. Elizabeth Johnson, Bishop Samuel Ruiz Garcia, Sr. Fran Ferder, Sr. Barbara Fiand, Fr. Richard Rohr, Fr. Patrick Brennan, Dr. Diana Hayes, Bishop Ken Untener, Bishop Robert Morneau, Fr. Thomas Reese, Fr. Michael Crosby, Megan McKenna."

[Dajjal]

Quotations from Mother Teresa

from http://www.francieweb.com/catholic/motquote.html:

"Of course I convert. I convert you to be a better Hindu or a better Muslim or a better Protestant. Once you've found God, it's up to you to decide how to worship him."

"There is only one God and He is God to all; therefore it is important that everyone is seen as equal before God. I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic become a better Catholic. We believe our work should be our example to people. We have among us 475 souls - 30 families are Catholics and the rest are all Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs—all different religions. But they all come to our prayers."

from http://jerome2007.tripod.com/new_page_8.htm:

"It is humiliating to ask people to change their religion as it is something that cannot be bought and sold. At the most what one can change is the hearts of the people for the better."

[Dajjal]

ping

[Aquinasfan]

Traditional Catholics opposed to the Congress were described by the Monsignor as "old fashioned, narrow minded, fanatic extremists and provocateurs."

Please tell me this is from the Onion.

[old and tired]

Do you think "the something else growing there is the saving grace of Christ?" I wonder if Mother Teresa meant that if good people followed their religions, they would see the limits of them and eventually be led to the perfect faith, i.e. Christianity?

That said, I've often thought of Our Lady of Fatima as the ones who would bring the Muslims to Christ. Afterall, the town was named after Mohammed's daughter. I don't think, however, letting other faiths have a say in the shrine is the way to go about turning the hearts of non-believers.

[old and tired]

Sorry. I put the quotes in the wrong place.


Should read: Do you think "the something else growing there" is the saving grace of Christ?"