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Lefebvre Group Attacks Pope's Ecumenical Vision
Zenit News Agency ^ | February 2, 2004

Posted on 02/03/2004 5:59:39 AM PST by NYer

ROME, FEB. 2, 2004 (Zenit.org).- The Society of St. Pius X founded by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre claims the Church is in "crisis" because of the ecumenical dialogue promoted after the Second Vatican Council.

The priestly fraternity made that point in a letter dated Jan. 6 and sent to several cardinals. Signed by Bishop Bernard Fellay, superior general of the fraternity, and by four other bishops of the group, the letter was presented today during a press conference in Rome.

The letter presents a 47-page document entitled "From Ecumenism to Silent Apostasy: 25 Years of Pontificate" ("De l’oecuménisme à l’apostasie silencieuse, 25 ans de pontificat").

Even though John Paul II is keeping daily public engagements, the letter's signatories explain that "because of the aggravated state of health of the Holy Father, we have not written to him directly."

The document interprets the position of John Paul II and other Church figures on ecumenism as a sign of the loss of the Catholic Church's own identity by putting it on the same level with Christian denominations of other confessions.

No mention is made of the 2000 declaration "Dominus Iesus" on "The Uniqueness and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church," or of John Paul II's repeated rejection of this faulty view of ecumenism.

In a letter sent to Bishop Fellay on April 5, 2002, by Cardinal Darío Castrillón Hoyos, prefect of the Congregation for Clergy and president of the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei," following contacts to overcome the fraternity's rupture with Rome, the cardinal referred to the "frontal attack" implied in the accusation addressed to the Pope of "having abandoned Tradition."

"It constitutes, in fact, a dangerous presumption to also judge the Supreme Authority" and, quoting Vatican Council I, the cardinal added that in these types of questions "we believe that no one can arrogate to himself the right to judge the Holy See."

In his 1988 apostolic letter "Ecclesia Dei," John Paul II stressed the "unlawful" ordination of bishops within the fraternity on the part of Archbishop Lefebvre, which constituted "a schismatic act." The archbishop died in 1991.


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1 posted on 02/03/2004 5:59:39 AM PST by NYer
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; CAtholic Family Association; narses; ...
No mention is made of the 2000 declaration "Dominus Iesus" on "The Uniqueness and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church," or of John Paul II's repeated rejection of this faulty view of ecumenism.

1.  The Lord Jesus, before ascending into heaven, commanded his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to the whole world and to baptize all nations: “Go into the whole world and proclaim the Gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; he who does not believe will be condemned” (Mk 16:15-16); “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the world” (Mt 28:18-20; cf. Lk 24:46-48; Jn 17:18,20,21; Acts 1:8).

"DOMINUS IESUS"
DECLARATION ON THE UNICITY AND SALVIFIC UNIVERSALITY OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE CHURCH

2 posted on 02/03/2004 6:05:27 AM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: NYer
These jokers have no intention of reunification. Fellay and Williamson think they're going to bring Rome to heel.

Don't be surprised if the next Pope cuts them loose...permanently.

3 posted on 02/03/2004 6:08:00 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: NYer
Dear NYer,

Interesting article.

It makes one wonder whether the SSPX faction that would like to fall into outright sedevacantism is gaining leverage. Or perhaps SG Fellay is trying to co-opt them. Though the need to co-opt them is a sign of their strength.


sitetest
4 posted on 02/03/2004 6:11:09 AM PST by sitetest
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To: NYer
In his 1988 apostolic letter "Ecclesia Dei," John Paul II stressed the "unlawful" ordination of bishops within the fraternity on the part of Archbishop Lefebvre, which constituted "a schismatic act."

At least these folks have the courtesy of being straight forward in their beliefs. They are wrong, but they do not hide their convictions. The AmChurch dissenters should follow their lead and openly state their dissent and heresy instead of pretending to be loyal Catholics.

5 posted on 02/03/2004 6:18:25 AM PST by johnb2004
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To: NYer
I read the letter and found it to be a devastating critique of the ecuminical vision of JPII. The letter provided a stark contrast between JPII's views and the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church backed up by numerous references to prior Church teaching.

Also encouraging was the attack on Cardinal Kasper. Hopefully, those cardinals who consider Kasper a candidate to be the next pope will wake up after reading this letter.

6 posted on 02/03/2004 6:28:29 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: NYer
Wow. They went to the press instead of the pope? This is like those priests rebelling in Wisconsin - they also went to the press before going to their bishop. Same thing has happened in Boston.

No mention is made of the 2000 declaration "Dominus Iesus" on "The Uniqueness and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church,"

Maybe they missed the encyclical? < /sarcasm>

7 posted on 02/03/2004 6:33:08 AM PST by american colleen
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To: Bellarmine
I do not agree with the interfaithism of the Catholic church. I do believe that Pope John Paul II muddies the water even for those who hold to historical Catholic doctrine and that the SSPXers and Trad Catholics of the world even though I do not believe in Catholic doctrine have a good point! When one figures out the Vatican believes that all religions should join together for peace (read Zenit weekly youll see this)or that the "Seeds of the Word" exsist even in false pagan religions it can be a bit revealing and disappointing especially if you believe Christ is the ONLY way.
8 posted on 02/03/2004 6:36:25 AM PST by Victoria68
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To: NYer
The letter presents a 47-page document entitled "From Ecumenism to Silent Apostasy: 25 Years of Pontificate" ("De l’oecuménisme à l’apostasie silencieuse, 25 ans de pontificat").

First, the very title of this letter shows that the SSPXers are accusing the Pope of apostasy, which in essence is the same as a charge of heresy, which they claim they are not doing. Second, it is unjust and ridiculous to charge someone with "silent" apostasy. If one does not have any teaching of heresy and any overt evidence of apostasy, then it is simply a slanderous smear to charge someone with this.

The document interprets the position of John Paul II and other Church figures on ecumenism as a sign of the loss of the Catholic Church's own identity by putting it on the same level with Christian denominations of other confessions.

No mention is made of the 2000 declaration "Dominus Iesus" on "The Uniqueness and Salvific Universality of Jesus Christ and the Church," or of John Paul II's repeated rejection of this faulty view of ecumenism.

Precisely so. Thus the SSPX continues its total and malicious mischaraterization of the Pope's ecumenical actions, treating ecumenism per se as wrong as opposed to mistaken understandings of it.

In his 1988 apostolic letter "Ecclesia Dei," John Paul II stressed the "unlawful" ordination of bishops within the fraternity on the part of Archbishop Lefebvre, which constituted "a schismatic act."

And yet we are told again and again on this forum that SSPX is not in schism, and that the Vatican does not hold them to be such. And we are told again and again that it is "necessary" for the faith to be disobedient to the "unorthodox" Pope because some disciplinary matters relating to the liturgy have changed since the Vatican II Council.

9 posted on 02/03/2004 6:37:51 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Victoria68
The Catholic Church does not teach religious relativism or the equivalence of all religions. That is a false and slanderous mischaracterization. The fullness of truth is to be found in the Catholic Church, but there are elements of truth to be found in other religions where their beliefs are the same as Catholics. It is a logical impossibility to say that other religions are entirely wrong. What happens when they believe the same thing as the Catholic Church? If a religion believes that murder is a sin or that God is beneficent and merciful, are we Catholics to denounce such beliefs because they are taught in other religions?
10 posted on 02/03/2004 6:42:54 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Bellarmine
The letter provided a stark contrast between JPII's views and the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church backed up by numerous references to prior Church teaching.

In what way has the Pope breached any irreformable teaching of dogmatic definitions of Popes or Ecumenical Councils or of the ordinary and universal magisterium of the Church, as opposed to reformable teachings of the ordinary magisterium or disciplinary matters? Only the former are Apostolic Tradition. The latter are at most tradition with a small "t".

14 posted on 02/03/2004 7:15:33 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: sinkspur
One wonders what might happen here. The Vat's comments are very pointed...

Rome's dilemma, of course, is to figure out how to exculpt the troublemakers while retaining the untermensch--those who don't really know any better.

Hmmmmm.
15 posted on 02/03/2004 7:17:57 AM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: Bellarmine
There may have been all of TEN Cardinals who viewed Kasper as "papabile." He's not now, never was, and never will be "papabile."
16 posted on 02/03/2004 7:19:36 AM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: ninenot
According to a survey posted in The Latin Mass magazine, he was in the top 5.
17 posted on 02/03/2004 7:25:15 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: Bellarmine
I read the letter and found it to be a devastating critique of the ecuminical vision of JPII. The letter provided a stark contrast between JPII's views and the perennial teaching of the Catholic Church backed up by numerous references to prior Church teaching.

Do you have a link where we can read it on line?

18 posted on 02/03/2004 7:28:06 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian
www.dici.org
19 posted on 02/03/2004 7:31:50 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: Maximilian
http://www.dici.org/dl/dici/DICI_anglais.pdf
20 posted on 02/03/2004 7:34:43 AM PST by Land of the Irish
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To: NYer
**Even though John Paul II is keeping daily public engagements, the letter's signatories explain that "because of the aggravated state of health of the Holy Father, we have not written to him directly."**

Huh? When I was sick, I could still read. I'm not understanding this statement. Seems like non-thinking to me.

Example, even though I may have the flu -- I can still function as a human if I must.
21 posted on 02/03/2004 7:35:34 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Victoria68
>>read Zenit weekly youll see this>>

The Catholic Press can be just agendized as the secular press. I heard Catholic World News, desperately anti-war, make an Iraqi Archbishop pleading with the US to rescue them sound like he was denouncing the war.

He said something like, "War is Evil, but it is far more evil to do nothing while innocents are subjected to constant horror. We must not allow atrocities to take place."

They edited his speech so it came out: "War is evil... we Must not allow atrocities to take place."
22 posted on 02/03/2004 7:39:56 AM PST by dangus
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To: Bellarmine
>>According to a survey posted in The Latin Mass magazine, he was in the top 5.>>

That just means he's famous
23 posted on 02/03/2004 7:43:39 AM PST by dangus
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To: Bellarmine
According to a survey posted in The Latin Mass magazine, he was in the top 5.

Because such a survey would serve The Latin Mass magazine's purposes.

Likely a bogus survey, since Cardinals are not in the habit of voting for Pope while the current Pontiff is still breathing.

24 posted on 02/03/2004 7:48:10 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Unam Sanctam
I am not a Catholic, want to make that clear. I am an ex-Catholic and one reason for that is I do not agree with the Catholic church's view of other religions.

I do find religious relativism in much of the Popes Words and actions. Sponsering prayers to pagan gods at Assisi is just the start of it. Preaching that Allah (Islam's god) equals God is part of this. (look up Nostra Aetate) There has been a big push for interfaithism in the Catholic church. The Vatican with its spokesmen Martino and Sodano promote the agendas of the United Nations at every turn. I am not suprised by what is happening at Fatima with Dupuis and Guerra lining up to promote a "a cosmic Christ" for all religions. The double-speak reaches new heights when they say the Fatima shrine will remain Catholic but be opened to all religions. I dont see any mosques opening their doors to Christians.

Just because some religions may teach some same ethical truths does not give their false gods or beliefs any standing! Don't let the interfaith double-speak fool you.


25 posted on 02/03/2004 8:11:04 AM PST by Victoria68
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To: sitetest; sinkspur
It makes one wonder whether the SSPX faction that would like to fall into outright sedevacantism is gaining leverage.

I thought the following was most telling ...

Dear Faithful,

Unfortunately I have sad news to end the year. Some of you may have seen it on the Internet. Indeed Father Aulagnier, one of Archbishop Lefebvre's first and closest companion in the resistance, assistant to the Superior General, founding district superior of the French district had to be expelled from the Society.

SSPX - Fr. Violette's Letter to the Faithful

26 posted on 02/03/2004 8:15:04 AM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: Unam Sanctam
I would recommend you read the actual letter (the link to which is found on this post) before launching into an unfounded attack. The "silent apostasy" in the title refers to a quote from the Pope's encyclical "Ecclesia in Europa":

"At the root of this loss of hope is an attempt to promote a vision of man apart from God and apart from Christ. This sort of thinking has led to man being considered as 'the absolute centre of reality, a view which makes him occupy – falsely – the place of God and which forgets that it is not man who creates God, but rather God who creates man. Forgetfulness of God led to the abandonment of man'. It is therefore 'no wonder that in this context a vast field has opened for the unrestrained development of nihilism in philosophy, of relativism in values and morality, and of pragmatism – and even a cynical hedonism – in daily life'. European culture gives the impression of 'silent apostasy' on the part of people who have all that they need and who live as if God does not exist."

Bishop Fellay's letter attempts to lay the blame for this "silent apostasy" on the false ecumenism now rampant in the Church as a result of Vatican II - he doesn't assert that the Pope is an "apostate," as you caluminously infer. Perhaps before you accuse others of "total and malicious mischaracterization," you should note the beam in your own eye.
27 posted on 02/03/2004 8:18:16 AM PST by Fifthmark
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To: dangus; Bellarmine
Actually, in the case of Kasper, it's "infamous."
29 posted on 02/03/2004 8:34:18 AM PST by ninenot (Minister of Membership, TomasTorquemadaGentlemen'sClub)
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To: NYer
Thanks, NYer - I hadn't seen the "Dear Faithful" letter written by Fr. Violette to explain the expulsion of Fr. Aulagnier from the SSPX.

Here is something interesting from the letter "The problem was not that he [Fr. Aulagnier] had contrary opinions but that he was airing them in public and trying to undermine the Superior General and the Society. This state of affairs had lasted long enough."

I am confused because really, the bottom line is that in this case the SSPX is guilty of the exact thing they accuse Fr. Aulagnier of, or am I reading this wrong?

30 posted on 02/03/2004 8:35:44 AM PST by american colleen
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To: Fifthmark
The implication of the letter is clearly to attack the Pope as an "apostate". The title is called "From Ecumenism to Silent Apostasy: 25 "ears of Pontificate". The introduction states that "The ecumenism is not a stranger to this situation [i.e., the "silent apostasy" referred to in Ecclesia in Europa"]. This analysis of the thought of John Paul II (First Part) will show us that, not without a profound sadness, the ecumenical practices come from a no-catholic thought ()Second Part) and lead to apostasy )Third Part). The entire letter is filled with citations of John Paul II's writing. It is thus a direct attack on the Holy Father and falsely accusing him of apostasy. It completely misrepresents the true intentions of ecumenism, falsely describes the teaching of the Church, and deliberately does not mention Dominus Iesus Christus and the condemnations of religious relativism or syncretism. It is simply not an objective study, but rather an anti-Papal diatribe written in bad faith.
32 posted on 02/03/2004 8:39:44 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: Unam Sanctam
"However, since you are intent on defaming the Holy Father and the Catholic faith with erroneous statements and misrepresentations, we orthodox Catholics must defend the faith and the Holy Father against those that challenge them, as Catholics have been doing for millenia. This is not "spitting hatred"."

So whats your explanation for the Pope sponsering prayers to false gods at Assisi?

That happened. I can post links and news if needbe.

34 posted on 02/03/2004 8:40:53 AM PST by Victoria68
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To: ninenot
touche'
37 posted on 02/03/2004 8:49:14 AM PST by dangus
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To: Unam Sanctam
The letter does make one direct accusation of apostasy, against Cardinal Kasper.
38 posted on 02/03/2004 9:00:35 AM PST by Bellarmine
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To: Unam Sanctam
1. What is ecumenism?
2. How is ecumenism strengthening the One True Church in face of the "silent apostasy" that is occuring in Europe and elsewhere?
3. What is the ultimate end of ecumenism and how will we know if it is successful?
39 posted on 02/03/2004 9:04:06 AM PST by Fifthmark
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To: Unam Sanctam; american colleen
since you are intent on defaming the Holy Father and the Catholic faith with erroneous statements and misrepresentations, we orthodox Catholics must defend the faith and the Holy Father against those that challenge them, as Catholics have been doing for millenia.

I find the timing on the delivery of this letter most curious. Why do you suppose they would do so on the very day that the pope was celebrating 'Candlemas' - the Presentation of our Lord? Do you suppose that by dismissing Fr. Aulagnier, the last link to Bishop Lefebvre, they now feel emboldened to proceed with their agenda?


Pope John Paul (news - web sites) II prays in front of a candle as he leads the traditional Feast of presentation of the Lord, better knows as Procession of the Candles in Saint Peter's Basilica at the Vatican (news - web sites) February 2, 2004. Swiss born Bishop Bernard Fellay, leader of the world's breakaway traditionalist Catholics, said on Monday Pope John Paul's papacy will leave a sad legacy cause his openness to other religions has left the church like a ship with a hole in it.

40 posted on 02/03/2004 9:08:10 AM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: Deo volente
It seems you've lost your dogma.

Pope Pius IX, Syllabus of Errors, 1864:
"We must have at least good hope concerning the eternal salvation of all those who in no wise are in the true Church of Christ - CONDEMNED."
43 posted on 02/03/2004 9:47:01 AM PST by Fifthmark
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To: Deo volente
"Fr, Abel" has often heard the bishop claim that women are only good for drudge work and breeding, and that no woman can be saved. Hearing women's confessions is therefore a waste of time.

This doesn't surprise me. One of Williamson's "letters" is all about what women should and shouldn't wear.

He doesn't like pants, or culottes or anything that delineates the female form.

Of course, his concern is for the men who see the female form.

Williamson is a nutburger of the first order. He spent one of his goofy letters in a diatribe against The Sound of Music!

44 posted on 02/03/2004 9:56:33 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Deo volente
Finally (and you knew this would be in Williamson's background), "Bishop" Richard Williamson loves the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

IOW, Williamson is a blatant anti-semite.

45 posted on 02/03/2004 10:00:47 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Deo volente
More kookburger stuff from your link:

St. Mary's, Kansas, is a town driven by fear and controversy. When one father of a student at the academy talked of "Gestapo tactics," he meant that a moral tyranny rules the campus, that children are intimidated, brow-beaten, and informed upon by other children belonging to a perfectionist cadre called the Children of Mary. He means that people who disagree with Fr. Angles or cross him in any way are condemned from the pulpit, shunned and even physically threatened. Thirteen Academy students were expelled or suspended in the academic year 1990-91 for various imperfections in themselves or in their parents. Another 37 were withdrawn by distraught or shunned parents. A grandmother was refused Communion because her daughter had been shunned. A child was forced to kneel in the snow in the dead of winter for an hour as punishment for some minor infraction. Informants tell Fr. Angles if they spot a Society woman wearing pants in town. She and her family are then condemned from the pulpit. Children are taught to follow the rule of the priests and not their parents. If they follow their parents' authority instead, they are told that they are going to hell. They are told that their parents have satanic minds."

If you have read previous articles describing pernicious cults, you will recognize all the marks of a cult in the fortress at St. Mary's. A 10-year-old boy was brought to the clinic for a checkup. The doctor told the mother, "if I thought it would do any good, I'd turn you in for child abuse if you send that boy back to St. Mary's." The parents removed the boy from St. Mary's and placed him in public school, even though the priests taught the children that a child sent to public school would go to hell.

Psychological tests given public school entrants revealed a boy so traumatized that he was judged unable to function in a classroom setting. The family has now left the Society and left town.

Sandy Cossette's daughter planned to marry a young man from town who was not a Society member. She was denounced publicly from the pulpit. Her family was shunned. Now that family, still living in the town, is condemned to hell, according to the priests at St. Mary's. This type of supernatural sanction, perpetrated on strongly faithful Catholics, who know there is a heaven and a hell, and who have been taught that "Father is always right," is what brings St. Mary's right into line with the Moonies, the Hare Krishnas, the cult at Mount St. Michael, and all the other destructive cults that wield the stick of damnation over their flocks. "Outside the Society, there is no salvation," and anyone who crosses Fr. Angles is outside the Society. It is no wonder that one priest formerly associated with the Society describes St. Mary's as "a Jonestown waiting to happen."

A few members in the growing army of the ostracized, sick and tired of being threatened by Fr. Angles, have bought guns to protect their families. Meanwhile, a stalwart in the pro-Angles faction says that if criticism continues, "there will be blood on the streets of St. Mary's."

How have things comes to this pass? Not too long ago, a woman who had dared criticize Fr. Angles had an accident and went to the hospital. When she returned, she found her house had been burnt to the ground. There is no evidence that Fr. Angles and his henchmen were responsible, but they take a kind of spiritual credit for it. A woman caught wearing slacks received a letter from the administration saying "anyone who crosses Fr. Angles meets with tragedy," a reference to the house burning. This is the message that comes from the pulpit and spreads across the town to breed fear and, increasingly, a kind of desperate rage.

A couple months ago, a crony of Fr. Angles purchased a shipment of 15 or 20 SKS (Chinese) automatic rifles from a local gun dealer. An observer tells me that these guns are reappearing, one by one, in the hands of devoted Society members in the town. Not long ago, a friend went target shooting out by the Kansas river and ran into a bunch of these amateur marksmen trying to hone their skills. St. Mary's is not a happy town. It is a town face-to-face with the possibility of bloodshed.

The rehabilitation of Adolf Hitler is not just an aberration of Fr. Angles. The first American priest ordained into the Society of St. Pius X was one Father Gregory Post. One day, he took a plane flight and arrived at the San Jose, California, airport dressed in the fun regalia of an SS German army officer, complete with helmet, boots and swastika arm band. San Jose Pius X members who picked him up at the airport were indignant, and the then district superior of the society had to fly out to San Jose to reprimand the priest and cool off the situation.

There is a virulent sickness of hatred and Hitlerism running through the traditional Catholic movement. Why these folks have taken on the clothes of the very devil they detest is a matter for God to sort out. The strain runs through the Society of St. Pius X in France, whose priests see Marshall Petain as a hero and his pro-Nazi Vichy government of World War II as a paragon of virtue.

46 posted on 02/03/2004 10:12:14 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: sinkspur
When in doubt, calumniate.
47 posted on 02/03/2004 10:14:49 AM PST by Fifthmark
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To: Fifthmark
When in doubt, calumniate.

Do you deny the nuttiness of this Fr. Angeles?

And how can one calumniate Richard Williamson by quoting his very own words?

48 posted on 02/03/2004 10:17:49 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: sinkspur
There is a virulent sickness of hatred and Hitlerism running through the traditional Catholic movement.

Wow. Thanks for posting this. I have seen a few sites with some scary stuff here and there, but your post is incredible. Certain evidence that the evil one is working hard on us all, and sometimes making way too much progress.

49 posted on 02/03/2004 10:20:43 AM PST by MarMema
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To: sinkspur
Isn't that the place where there are (or were) those scary signs on the interstate as you go by? I recall seeing those about ten years ago and thinking I would never, ever, want to have to stop there.
50 posted on 02/03/2004 10:26:54 AM PST by MarMema
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