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Mel Gibson: $5 Mil to Fringe Church (FOX attacks "antiquated Catholic ideology")
FOX ^ | Friday, February 20, 2004 | By Roger Friedman

Posted on 02/20/2004 5:46:17 AM PST by Behind Liberal Lines

Mel Gibson's put his money where his mouth is. By now everyone in the world knows he's spent $25 million to make "The Passion of the Christ" and promised nearly $25M more to market it.

But what you may not know is that Gibson has also put up $5.1 million so far to run his own personal church near Malibu.

Last year Christopher Noxon wrote in The New York Times that Gibson had donated $2.3 million to make Holy Family Catholic Church in Agoura Hills, California a reality. Holy Family rejects the universally accepted teachings of the Second Vatican Conference and chooses to stick with antiquated Catholic ideology.

Bu it turns out that Gibson has donated a little more than twice that amount to Holy Family since 1999, according to federal tax filings. And that's not counting 2003, since the most recent report has not yet been filed.

Gibson and his wife Robyn are listed in federal tax records as directors of the Holy Family Catholic Church. The church is run out of Gibson's Icon Production company offices, with an Icon employee responsible for keeping the church's books.

The Gibsons' tax-free donations to Holy Family are made possible by a charity they established called the AP Reilly Foundation, which is named for Mel's late mother. The foundation was created on October 29, 1999 for the sole purpose of creating the church.

The church, by the way, has an unlisted phone number, keeps its address a secret and has asked those who have the information not to release it.

Gibson is no stranger to controversy when it comes to voicing his opinion about his religious beliefs. In a 1992 interview with the Spanish magazine El Pais, his comments about homosexuals — which cannot be printed here — caused an international stir.

In the same interview Gibson talked about the fact that his brand of Traditionalist Catholics did not subscribe to the Second Vatican Council's 1965 rulings on various subjects including who was responsible for the death of Jesus Christ.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Current Events
KEYWORDS: catholicbashing; catholiclist; christianlist; clashofcivilizatio; medianews; presstitutes
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To: hobbes1
Better to be a schismatic, than a heretic.

So, you, too, have left the bark of Peter?

An SSPX Mass is valid, though it is illicit to attend one, when an Indult or Novus Ordo Mass is available.

Gibson, apparently in a cynical ploy, used the Pope to try to get an endorsement for his movie.

The Pope leads an institution that Gibson no longer believes in.

51 posted on 02/20/2004 6:43:20 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: AAABEST; Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; Askel5; ...
Traditionalist Catholic PING!
52 posted on 02/20/2004 6:43:57 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: sinkspur; GraniteStateConservative
Gibson's chapel has 70 members and attendance is by invitation only.

And the basis for that statement as fact is?
Just inquiring.

I agree with GraniteStateConservative, one is almost forced to see what the noise is all about. The only reason I rented Barbershop was to see why the "black leadership" was up in arms.

53 posted on 02/20/2004 6:45:08 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine's brother ("Never trust a RAT with anything" - Angelwood)
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To: hobbes1
He's wrong. The practice is frowned upon, but hardly outlawed. See 36

Gibson's chapel is not in union with Rome.

That is a fact.

54 posted on 02/20/2004 6:45:39 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: sinkspur
This is all so typical of you. You are so caught up in your traditionalist-bashing that you are blind to the other aspects of this story.
55 posted on 02/20/2004 6:46:03 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: sinkspur
My question was directed at the MEMBERS of the Catholic Church. I know the official position of the Church, but I also know that there are many "practicing" Catholics who support abortion!

The public voting records of elected officials show that many who consider themselves "Catholic" vote to support ABORTION! The Catholic Church has remained very muted since Roe v. Wade and it is only in the last year that SOME of the Catholic heirarchy are beginning to speak out against these public officials.

Here in NJ, there is a Roman Catholic Church that is NOT part of an Archdiocese. It is run by a priest who has maintained the Holy sacrifice of the Mass (i.e., Latin) and the practices that existed prior to VCII, ie., receiving Holy Communion in one form, kneeling at the Communion rail to receive, the covering of statues and cruxifixes during Lent, etc. This priest received a proclamation from the Pope for his dedicated life to the priesthood.
56 posted on 02/20/2004 6:46:59 AM PST by leprechaun9 (Beware of little expenses because a small leak will sink a great ship!)
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To: Pyro7480
You are so caught up in your traditionalist-bashing that you are blind to the other aspects of this story.

I don't care about other aspects of this story. Gibson is not in union with Rome, nor is his chapel.

The evidence is overwhelming.

57 posted on 02/20/2004 6:47:09 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Gee, isn't FOX considered "conservative"?
Hint: neo-conservatism is neither.
58 posted on 02/20/2004 6:49:44 AM PST by TradicalRC (While the wicked stand confounded, Call me, with thy saints surrounded. -The Boondock Saints)
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To: sinkspur
It is considered an INTERNAL matter of the Catholic Church.

Internal....

That is a fairly clear, and simple declarative.....

59 posted on 02/20/2004 6:50:36 AM PST by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: sinkspur
Thanks for admitting this flat-out. Is Mel going to hell for not being in union with Rome?
60 posted on 02/20/2004 6:50:39 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Uh....I hate to break this to you,since you're obviously looking for an excuse to call me an anti-Semite, but I'm in a mixed marriage.... my wife is Jewish. My kids are Jewish. Bar Mitzvahs and the whole deal.

No really that's okay. Just tell the truth and I'm fine with it.

We celebrate Christmas and Hannukkah in December, Easter and Passover in the Spring and Rosh Hashannah in the fall.

Have you considered adding the Id alAdha, Id alFitr, or Ramadan to your observances ?

We both are looking forward to seeing this film because we think it will be a great piece of cinema.

As an added bonus you get to view the previews in the media.

Neither of us approve of bashing a religion as "antiquated" or "fringe" just because we disagree with it.

Really ? That is very progressive of you. I'll take you at your word.

I'm simply noting that calling a small, or unpopular, religion "fringe" or "antiquated" in a major news outlet potentially opens the door to casting other such religions in a negative light.

I can see you would not want to cast another religion in a negative light.

61 posted on 02/20/2004 6:50:59 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: leprechaun9
This priest received a proclamation from the Pope for his dedicated life to the priesthood.

Which Pope? There are Tridentine Indult Masses, which are approved by the local bishop. There are parishes run by the Fraternity for the Society of St. Peter which celebrate all of the sacraments from the 1962 Missal. These are in union with Rome.

Those who worship at SSPX Masses reject the authority of the Pope over them and follow a successor the the excommunicated Marcel Lefebvre, who led his SSPX out of the Catholic Church in 1988.

62 posted on 02/20/2004 6:51:01 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: leprechaun9
Are you talking about Mater Ecclesiae?
63 posted on 02/20/2004 6:51:31 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: sinkspur
...And Rome is not in union with The Word. What'ryegonnadoo?
64 posted on 02/20/2004 6:51:39 AM PST by Jim Cane
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To: hobbes1
It is considered an INTERNAL matter of the Catholic Church.

That doesn't mean that the SSPX is any less schismatic.

65 posted on 02/20/2004 6:52:02 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Pyro7480
Is Mel going to hell for not being in union with Rome?

Mel's salvation is Mel's business.

66 posted on 02/20/2004 6:52:45 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: sinkspur
Of the two quotes you provided, the first one does seem to at first look be compelling evidence that he is not in union with Rome. The second quote (on the results of Vatican II) is something that might be uttered by many faithful Roman Catholics who truly believe that a liberal hijacking of the implementation of Vatican II led to many of the abuses cited.

I actually took the time to look up the article you linked from Newsmax - interestingly the quote you attributed to Gibson was not his words, but those of the author. The full quote was:

Actor Mel Gibson, a staunchly orthodox Roman Catholic who will play Christ in an upcoming movie, says the Vatican is a "wolf in sheep's clothing" and that he doesn't believe in the present-day Church as an institution.

Since the author doesn't have a clue what the word "orthodox" means in this context, I don't know whether I trust his interpretation of Gibson's position in regard to such a nuanced issue.

It always seemed odd to me that if Gibson were truly a sedevacantist or other schismatic that he would speak so glowingly about the prospect of his daughter attending Franciscan University in Steubenville (a VERY Orthodox Catholic school) and potentially becomming a nun. I choose to reserve judgment until I hear from Gibson himself on the matter.

P.S. - I assume that your misattribution of the quote was a mistake made for the sake of brevity.

67 posted on 02/20/2004 6:53:12 AM PST by Lonely NY Conservative
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To: af_vet_1981
>>I'm rebuking Hutton Gibson's Holocaust Denial and antisemitism.

I don't think he's denying that the Holocaust took place. He just questions some of the numbers and events that are accepted as gospel. There's nothing wrong with that.

68 posted on 02/20/2004 6:54:42 AM PST by dixiepatriot
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To: sinkspur
They ARE universally accepted within the Catholic Church.

No, counting the people who were attending Mass at the time of Vatican II, 80% have voted with their feet to reject Vatican II and all it stands for, most especially the atrocious "New Mass." And those who still go are generally very dissatisfied with the state of the Church. One would be a lot closer to the truth to say "Vatican II has been universally rejected except by a small coterie of liberals, especially in the hierarchy, who are quickly dying out, thank God."

69 posted on 02/20/2004 6:55:07 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: sinkspur
"Which Pope?"

The present Pope, the Bishop of Rome, resident in the Vatican City!
70 posted on 02/20/2004 6:55:25 AM PST by leprechaun9 (Beware of little expenses because a small leak will sink a great ship!)
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To: Lonely NY Conservative
It always seemed odd to me that if Gibson were truly a sedevacantist or other schismatic that he would speak so glowingly about the prospect of his daughter attending Franciscan University in Steubenville (a VERY Orthodox Catholic school) and potentially becomming a nun. I choose to reserve judgment until I hear from Gibson himself on the matter.

Good find! Where did you read this? His daughter is going to stay Catholic, though Mel probably isn't too find of the Charismatic inclination of Steubenville.

71 posted on 02/20/2004 6:56:43 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Lonely NY Conservative
Before you bash me - mea culpa. The article does cite Mel's direct quote farther down and I jumped to conclusions. Definitely supports your opinion.
72 posted on 02/20/2004 6:57:38 AM PST by Lonely NY Conservative
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To: Maximilian
No, counting the people who were attending Mass at the time of Vatican II, 80% have voted with their feet to reject Vatican II and all it stands for, most especially the atrocious "New Mass." And those who still go are generally very dissatisfied with the state of the Church. One would be a lot closer to the truth to say "Vatican II has been universally rejected except by a small coterie of liberals, especially in the hierarchy, who are quickly dying out, thank God."

How do you account for the one billion Catholics who belong to the Church today?

Your interpretation of the situation is, of course, your interpretation.

The number of people who attend the Tridentine Mass in the United States is less than a million; the number of Catholics is over 62 million.

73 posted on 02/20/2004 6:57:46 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
It was such a secret that it took me less than a minute to find this...



New church planned for Mulholland in rural Agoura

By John Loesing
Acorn Staff Writer

January 17, 2002

A Catholic group known as the Holy Family Chapel wants to build a new church in rural Agoura.

If approved by the Los Angeles Department of Regional Planning, the 9,310 square-foot, two-story church would be constructed at 30188 W. Mulholland Highway, between Sierra Creek and Kanan roads.

Also located on the 17-acre site in the scenic Santa Monica hills is a smaller, 30-year-old church currently undergoing renovation.

Although not affiliated with the Vatican, Holy Family Chapel observes traditional Catholic doctrine, practices and customs. Sunday mass is conducted in Latin.

The A.P. Reilly Foundation, a private organization, is funding the project. The estimated costs of the new church and renovation of the older one weren’t available.

"Some people were curious as to what the A.P. Reilly Foundation was, what kind of church it was. There was some confusion about that," said Patricia Lin, a Los Angeles County staff planner who attended a Dec. 12 public hearing on the project.

The area is zoned residential, but churches are allowed if they get a conditional use permit.

Planning commissioners tabled their decision to issue a permit until Feb. 13 and directed the foundation to clarify the church’s operations and respond to community questions.

A community meeting on the project is scheduled for 7 p.m. tonight at Seminole Park on Mulholland Highway.

The parish serves Conejo Valley, West San Fernando Valley and Malibu and currently has 70 parishioners.

The new building includes a 256-seat sanctuary and a 40-seat chapel. The existing church has a 170-seat assembly area that will be used for discussion groups.

"Their plan is not to have a huge church there. However, neighbors are concerned it will grow because the church is built on such a site where it can grow to a few hundred people," Lin said.

Tim Riley, a land-use consultant for A.P. Reilly, doubts that will happen.

"They expect some growth but not explosive growth because it’s kind of a specialized area of the Catholic belief," Riley said.

In addition to Mass on Sundays, the church will observe the six Holy Days of Obligation. It also expects about a dozen special events during the calendar year such as weddings, funerals, picnics, a St. Patrick’s Day celebration and a youth day.

Architects and landscape designers hope to give the buildings and the grounds the look of a California mission. Documents reportedly indicate that Spanish missionaries actually visited the site at the time they were founding their missions.

The church has three full-time employees; two of them live in a caretaker’s residence on the site.
74 posted on 02/20/2004 6:58:58 AM PST by kcvl
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To: jtminton
I think the most important thing is that Gibson's chapel needs to be in union with God and the Bible. If it is, then there is no problem.

Very well stated. Bravo.

75 posted on 02/20/2004 7:00:12 AM PST by toddst
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Mel's church is considered antiquated because the priests are not queer and attacking the alter boys!! Not like those "progressive" NE parishes where as long as your not sleeping with women your celibate!

Pray for W and The Truth

76 posted on 02/20/2004 7:01:30 AM PST by bray (Vote Kerry, 10,000 Al Queda can't be wrong!)
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To: toddst; jtminton
I think the most important thing is that Gibson's chapel needs to be in union with God and the Bible. If it is, then there is no problem.

While this statement is doctrinally Protestant, I understand the sentiment.

77 posted on 02/20/2004 7:03:33 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: leprechaun9
Which parish are you talking about? Mater Ecclesiae, near Camden?
78 posted on 02/20/2004 7:04:05 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: sinkspur
The majority has never been right.

Check out what our Heavenly Father told Gideon...

Judges 7:2 And the LORD said unto Gideon, "The People that are with thee are too many for ME to give the Midianites into the hands, lest Israel vaunt themselves against Me, saying, "Mine own hand hath saved me.'

Then our Heavenly Father did some thinning.
79 posted on 02/20/2004 7:04:07 AM PST by Just mythoughts
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To: dixiepatriot
I don't think he's denying that the Holocaust took place. He just questions some of the numbers and events that are accepted as gospel. There's nothing wrong with that.

That is not true. You should recheck the facts.

80 posted on 02/20/2004 7:05:01 AM PST by af_vet_1981
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To: sinkspur
How do you account for the one billion Catholics who belong to the Church today?

That's just the number of people who identify themselves as Catholics or who were born Catholic. But how many of those do even so much as the 6 basic things required of all Catholics such as attend Mass every Sunday and Holy Day of obligation, go to confession at least once per year, contribute to the support of the Church, fast and abstain on the required days, etc.?

The number of people who attend the Tridentine Mass in the United States is less than a million; the number of Catholics is over 62 million.

People aren't aware that there is an alternative. I wasn't aware of the alternative for many years. People feel trapped in their Novus Ordo hell where they get to hear heresy from the pulpit and off-key lounge singing accompanied by guitars. They just stop going. That has been the decision of the large majority of Catholics, "Just say no."

81 posted on 02/20/2004 7:07:35 AM PST by Maximilian
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To: af_vet_1981
>>That is not true. You should recheck the facts.

No, YOU need to show me where he said that the Holocaust never took place. He never said that.

82 posted on 02/20/2004 7:08:54 AM PST by dixiepatriot
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Comment #83 Removed by Moderator

To: Just mythoughts
OK. Whatever.
84 posted on 02/20/2004 7:11:54 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: bray

Isn't this the Muslim way as well?
85 posted on 02/20/2004 7:13:09 AM PST by kittymyrib
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To: dixiepatriot
I don't think he's denying that the Holocaust took place.

Dixie, please read up a little more before you make comments like this on threads such as these. Most people consider the revisionistic views of Hutton Gibson to be equal to Holocaust Denial - Christians and non-Christians. It's not like hutton's concerned over whether it was 5 million or 6 million, but whether it was in the millions at all, or even hundreds of thousands.

To me, that alone makes him crazy and a conspiracty nut. To Jews it is denying what actually took place. I'm pretty much in agreement that it is the equivalent.

It would be comparable to someone saying that a couple of people died in Vietnam, when we know for a fact that 58,000+ died, but worse because the Holocaust was not a war, it was genocide.
86 posted on 02/20/2004 7:14:09 AM PST by Texas2step (Reformed passion thread instigator ... but don't tell anyone.)
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To: sinkspur
Gibson is not in union with Rome, though he will not come out and say so.

What does Rome say?

87 posted on 02/20/2004 7:17:19 AM PST by Tribune7 (Vote Toomey April 27)
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To: sinkspur
No one in the Catholic Church is empowered to build his own chapels or separate himself from the Pope, which Gibson has done.

Almost sounds like the Protestant movement of Martin Luther.(ie:separation from the Roman Church because of disagreements in doctrine and practices.)

I think this is a good thing. The Roman Catholic Church is in need of MAJOR reforms (IMHO). It needs to go back to a time when its focus was on Holiness, not pedophilia and pederasty.

88 posted on 02/20/2004 7:17:58 AM PST by A. Patriot
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To: Tribune7
What does Rome say?

Nothing.

89 posted on 02/20/2004 7:18:15 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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Comment #90 Removed by Moderator

To: dixiepatriot
No, YOU need to show me where he said that the Holocaust never took place. He never said that.

Just in case af's taking a break...

His positions are indefensible and reprehensible to Jews as well as Christians. Very widely diseminated yesterday, and many, many times in the past. You ought to know what someone's views are before you defend them
91 posted on 02/20/2004 7:20:32 AM PST by Texas2step (Reformed passion thread instigator ... but don't tell anyone.)
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To: offshore
me thinks thou dost protest too much

Yeah, he does tend to over react sometimes, and it's difficult to tell exactly which of his comments are sarcastic or not (af, you really need to use the '/sarcasm' tag!), but he's challenging something that ought to be challenged.
92 posted on 02/20/2004 7:22:45 AM PST by Texas2step (Reformed passion thread instigator ... but don't tell anyone.)
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To: sinkspur
'(Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!) 1998-07-18'
------------------------------------------

First of all, animals don't have Souls...but You do...you and your cabala
Make ME SICK......HERE is your Bio:..
'If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a Noisy Gong or a Clanging Cymbal'...1Cor13

signed,

'Harbingr'

Excerpt:...

Ephesians 6:11-12
11 "Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil. 12 For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood; but against principalities and powers, against the rulers of the world of this darkness, against the spirits of wickedness in the high places...".

93 posted on 02/20/2004 7:25:40 AM PST by harbingr ('They that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; They shall mount up with Wings as Eagles')
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To: sinkspur
The invitation only could be to keep out the "celebrity hunters and gawkers." It would be hard to worship with the paparrazi circling like sharks. It would also be hard to worship if a celebrity like Mel Gibson becomes the center of attention.
94 posted on 02/20/2004 7:26:44 AM PST by carton253 (I have no genius at seeming.)
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To: Tribune7
See 36 for Romes opinion.
95 posted on 02/20/2004 7:31:37 AM PST by hobbes1 (Hobbes1TheOmniscient® "I know everything so you don't have to" ;)
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To: Texas2step
>>Most people consider the revisionistic views of Hutton Gibson to be equal to Holocaust Denial - Christians and non-Christians. It's not like hutton's concerned over whether it was 5 million or 6 million, but whether it was in the millions at all, or even hundreds of thousands. To me, that alone makes him crazy and a conspiracty nut. To Jews it is denying what actually took place. I'm pretty much in agreement that it is the equivalent.

I disagree. It's one thing to deny that the Holocaust happened. That's holocaust denial. It's quite another thing to question the "6 million" figure that is often quoted. I'm more concerned with historical fact than "offending" people.

Anti-semitism, like racism, is a term that is widely overused by leftists to smear their opposition. Such is the case with the study of the Holocaust. It has become taboo to question any aspect of it. You either buy the "6 million Jews" line or you're "anti-Semitic". In some countries, you can go to jail for daring to question certain aspects of the Holocaust. It's getting ridiculous.

96 posted on 02/20/2004 7:33:11 AM PST by dixiepatriot
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To: dixiepatriot
Defending hutton's views is not wise, IMO.

In his interview on WSNR radio's Speak Your Piece, to be broadcast on Monday, Hutton Gibson, argued that many European Jews counted as death camp victims of the Nazi regime had in fact fled to countries like Australia and the United States.

"It's all - maybe not all fiction - but most of it is," he said

These are defensible statements? This is not denial? To me, it's absolutely loony, but to a Jew, yes, I beleive this is equal to denial.
97 posted on 02/20/2004 7:38:03 AM PST by Texas2step (Reformed passion thread instigator ... but don't tell anyone.)
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To: harbingr
First of all, animals don't have Souls...but You do...you and your cabala Make ME SICK......HERE is your Bio:..

You need a dog.

You'd be a much happier and nicer person.

98 posted on 02/20/2004 7:39:58 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: dixiepatriot
Anti-semitism, like racism, is a term that is widely overused by leftists to smear their opposition. ... It has become taboo to question any aspect of it. You either buy the "6 million Jews" line or you're "anti-Semitic". ... It's getting ridiculous.

And, I agree with everyone statement from that comment. But, hutton's position is indefensible. It's perfect fine, IMO, to disagree over minutia. The difference between 5 million and 6 million.

Whether the non-Jews count as Holocaust victims, etc., etal, that, to me at least, is minutia. Hutton's comments are not over minutia.
99 posted on 02/20/2004 7:41:53 AM PST by Texas2step (Reformed passion thread instigator ... but don't tell anyone.)
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Comment #100 Removed by Moderator


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