Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Gibson's 'Passion' remains a concern over portrayal of Jews
Pittsburgh Post-Gazettte ^ | March 21, 2004 | Ann Rodgers

Posted on 03/21/2004 10:20:08 PM PST by heyheyhey

Edited on 04/13/2004 2:35:36 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Nearly a month after its release, "The Passion of the Christ" has made hundreds of millions of dollars for producer-director Mel Gibson but remains a focus of concern among scholars over its portrayal of Jews.

Next week, at least seven seminars examining the film's historical accuracy, interpretation of the Gospels, portrayal of Jews and its place in "Jesus film" iconography will be offered by district schools and religious groups.


(Excerpt) Read more at post-gazette.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: thepassion
"Rabbi Alvin Berkun had initially asked Bishop Donald W. Wuerl to put a rabbi in one Catholic high school, but Wuerl asked Berkun to find rabbis immediately for all of them."
1 posted on 03/21/2004 10:20:08 PM PST by heyheyhey
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: heyheyhey
"but remains a focus of concern among scholars"

Or rather, remains a cause of enuresis among bed-wetting leftist whackos.

Maybe this site could help:

http://www.enuresis.org.uk/
2 posted on 03/22/2004 2:47:12 AM PST by dsc
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: heyheyhey
"People are just clueless about this," she said. "The kids in my classes are so young. So do I let them go on not knowing about this, or do I teach them the history of hate so they can understand it? If they don't understand the background, the fear is that it could happen again."

Could it be that the evidence the kids are presented is less than compelling. One has to reach back into the Middle Ages to show that a Passion play resultd in anti-Jewish actions. As for the role of the Jews historicallly, I am surprised that people have not pointed out that Paul was similiarly attacked by the Jewish leadership and was saved only because he was a Roman citizen. The Book of Acts devotes several chapters to this.

3 posted on 03/22/2004 7:45:52 AM PST by RobbyS (Latin nothing of atonment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: heyheyhey
Nobody foresaw how huge Gibson's movie would become. Now those who are irrelevant to the gospel story and irrelevant to salvation are trying to find relevancy in the popularity of the movie and so "anti semitism" is once more hauled into the arena. The elite Jewish leadership had Jesus crucified because they feared His power. The common Jews worshiped Jesus because they recognized Him as the Christ. At the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 73 AD Josephus described "Christians" as the third largest sect in Israel. Those weren't gentile Christians in Israel; they were Jews who recognized Christ as the Messiah.... and most of them remembered Jesus's warning about "when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies..." and got out of town before the Romans torched the place and destroyed the Temple. Well before this time, of course, the Temple was also irrelevant to salvation and had been so since the resurrection of the Messiah.
4 posted on 03/22/2004 3:39:47 PM PST by waxhaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: heyheyhey
The only thing "anti-semitic" about "The Passion of the Christ" is that Jewish religious leaders conspired to have a Galilean Rabbi crucified by the Romans.

Note - It is an undeniable FACT that Jewish leaders had Jesus crucified. Read Matthew Chapter 26 and 27 if you have any doubts. However, don't think you are "anti-semetic" if you think it, say it or write it. It was all part of God's perfect plan of redemption that His Son, Jesus, would be rejected by His people and die a criminal's death.

God could of have used any tribe of people to bring forth His Son, but he chose the Hebrews.


5 posted on 03/22/2004 4:08:11 PM PST by ASTM366
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
One has to reach back into the Middle Ages to show that a Passion play resultd in anti-Jewish actions.

I thought there was a Passion Play in the 1930's in Germany.

6 posted on 03/22/2004 11:16:09 PM PST by h.a. cherev
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ASTM366
You seem to have a pretty good handle on what is and what is not anti-Semitic.
7 posted on 03/22/2004 11:18:50 PM PST by h.a. cherev
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: h.a. cherev
There is a famous passion play at Oberammergau which is held every 10 years.It was exploted by the Nazis, but it certainly did not cause the Holocaust.
8 posted on 03/22/2004 11:19:34 PM PST by RobbyS (Latin nothing of atonment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
There is a famous passion play at Oberammergau which is held every 10 years.It was exploted by the Nazis, but it certainly did not cause the Holocaust.

Well, it certainly seems to contradict your sentence above that one has to reach back to the middle ages....doesn't it? Even if it was "exploited" by the Nazis, it did result in anti-Jewish action. Did the anti-Jewish action occur in a vacuum?

Be that as it may, obviously, one play didn't "cause" the Holocaust. What did, in your opinion?

9 posted on 03/22/2004 11:26:43 PM PST by h.a. cherev
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: h.a. cherev
I said that one has to reach back to the Middles ages to find an example of Christians who were incited to violence against the Jews by a passion play. As for the Holocaust, only two things were required. An implacable and inexplicable hatred of Jews by Hitler and the opportunity afforded by conditions of total war.
10 posted on 03/22/2004 11:35:26 PM PST by RobbyS (Latin nothing of atonment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
I said that one has to reach back to the Middles ages to find an example of Christians who were incited to violence against the Jews by a passion play.

I didn't read that in your original post. My mistake.

As for the Holocaust, only two things were required. An implacable and inexplicable hatred of Jews by Hitler and the opportunity afforded by conditions of total war.

That's pretty interesting. How long have you been studying the Holocaust?

11 posted on 03/22/2004 11:38:04 PM PST by h.a. cherev
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: h.a. cherev
Modern Germany history for some time. As for Hitler, the fact is that Mein Kampf tellls us all we need to know about Hitler. He meant what he said, as incredible it seemed to his readers. He thought that Jewish bloood literally poisoned that of the peoples with whom it was mixed, so they were not simply aninferior race but one that undermined the creative spark of the noble or Aryan race. The only remedy for this contamination was extermination, root and branch. He regarded it as providential that the national interest of Germany lat in the direction of the greatest concentration of Jews in Europe.
12 posted on 03/22/2004 11:49:35 PM PST by RobbyS (Latin nothing of atonment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
Would it surprise you to learn that there are some who find that Hitler's rise to power unsurprising given the anti-Jewish history of Christian Europe?
13 posted on 03/22/2004 11:52:27 PM PST by h.a. cherev
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: heyheyhey
Rabbi Jason Edelstein

This might sound bigoted, but I can't take any Rabbi named "Jason" seriously. What kind of Jewish parent would name their kid after the traitorous High Priest who conspired with the Greeks to dedicate the Holy Temple to Zeus? What kind of Rabbi would allow himself to go by that name, rather than changing it or using his Hebrew name (for example, a Rabbi in my neighborhood growing up was named Mark by his secular parents. Upon becoming religious, he dropped the name of the Gospel writer for the name of Moshe-- author of the Torah).

14 posted on 03/22/2004 11:53:12 PM PST by ChicagoHebrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS
I said that one has to reach back to the Middles ages to find an example of Christians who were incited to violence against the Jews by a passion play.

That's funny. I distinctly remember getting the sh*t kicked out of me by some Italian punks growing up in Philly for killing Christ. Granted, I don't know if their fists went straight from the theater to my face, but as they pounded into my skullI recall their mocking laughs of "Christ Killer." For the record, I'm 25 now, so this was less than 20 years ago.

15 posted on 03/22/2004 11:57:48 PM PST by ChicagoHebrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: ChicagoHebrew; RobbyS
I'm sorry for your pain, but that's a bit different than what RobbyS was talking about, isn't it?
16 posted on 03/23/2004 12:02:40 AM PST by h.a. cherev
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: h.a. cherev
Well, it surprised the German Jews. They thought their acceptance of "Enlightenment" ideals instead of their own religion and the decline of Christianity among the European elite would mean full acceptance of Jews. They ddn't figure on the rise of racism, which is a secular phenomenon,and the rise of men like Hitler whose hatred of them was based on crackpot science and a resentment of Jews that had nothing to do with their religion. The irony is that Jews were strong German nationalists who supported the new German empire created by Bismarck.
17 posted on 03/23/2004 4:01:27 AM PST by RobbyS (Latin nothing of atonment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: ChicagoHebrew
They came directly from a showing of the Passion? Somehow I don't think that these guys were moved by piety, either.
18 posted on 03/23/2004 4:05:16 AM PST by RobbyS (Latin nothing of atonment)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: ChicagoHebrew
Gee I grew up in an area in New York that was full of Italians and Jews and never, ever heard of anything anywhere near the contrived sounding nonsense you describe.

I'm Catholic, my grandfather is from Italy, many of my friends were Italian and many were Jewsish. Never once in my entire life have I heard ANYONE describe Jews as "Christ killers" or even remotely blame them for Christ's death. NOT ONCE EVER.

I'm wondering what I should rely on here. My own eyes and life experience or some internet newcomer who nobody knows anything about and who could as easily be an Arab as a Jew.

19 posted on 03/23/2004 4:41:05 AM PST by AAABEST (<a href="http://www.angelqueen.org">Traditional Catholicism is Back and Growing</a>)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: h.a. cherev
The words "anti-semetic" get thrown around quite a bit. They are "alarm" words. People like to use them to inflame conversations. I usually look very carefully at he "motives" of the writer or speaker when I hear them being used.

As it pertains to Jesus, people of today think that he was a "Christian". He was not. He was a Jew and He was the Christ.
20 posted on 03/23/2004 6:48:43 AM PST by ASTM366
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: AAABEST
For the record, I've had great relationships with basically every Italian I didn't grow up with. I think it was something peculiar about the Italians in my particular neighborhood-- almost all of whom were from Northern Italy. I've never detected a hint of Jew-hating in every Italian I've met in college, law school, or thereafter. Nevertheless, the one's in my neighborhood growing up were real bastards.
21 posted on 03/23/2004 4:53:55 PM PST by ChicagoHebrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: ChicagoHebrew; AAABEST
That's funny. I distinctly remember getting the sh*t kicked out of me by some Italian punks growing up in Philly for killing Christ. Granted, I don't know if their fists went straight from the theater to my face, but as they pounded into my skull I recall their mocking laughs of "Christ Killer." For the record, I'm 25 now, so this was less than 20 years ago.

Punks need a "Christ-Killer" excuse to beat up Jews?

This will come as quite a shock to Islamists and pagan Neo-Nazis and every other Punk scumbag who also beats up Jews.... for whom "Christ-Killer" has nuthin' to do with it. (I suspect Islamists don't really care two beans about your attitude towards Jesus; it's your refusal to fall down and worship Allah and "Prophet" Mohammed that sticks in their craw).

Outta curiosity, which would you say is more likely:

(In Other Words.... if not one excuse to rationalize their actions, don't you think they would have found another?)

22 posted on 03/23/2004 5:13:24 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: RobbyS; h.a. cherev; Goetz_von_Berlichingen
Well, it surprised the German Jews. They thought their acceptance of "Enlightenment" ideals instead of their own religion and the decline of Christianity among the European elite would mean full acceptance of Jews. They ddn't figure on the rise of racism, which is a secular phenomenon,and the rise of men like Hitler whose hatred of them was based on crackpot science and a resentment of Jews that had nothing to do with their religion. The irony is that Jews were strong German nationalists who supported the new German empire created by Bismarck.

There was good reason that the Jews were strong supporters of the German Empire... the Kaiser's Germany was comparatively one of the more egalitarian regimes in Europe in their treatment of their indigenous Jewish minority. I'm not saying it was Meshuval Wine and Roses for the German Jews; just that the Kaiser's regime was *comparatively* friendly towards the Jews. (I'll defer to Goetz_von_Berlichingen for any specifics he'd care to offer).

By comparison, Hitler's anti-Semitic program was, as RobbyS points out, racialist -- not religionist -- in it's "operational theory"; and Racialism is (predominantly) a secular phenomenom. (As far as personal "Devotions" go, you'll find more Alcoholism and Pederasty amongst the Nazi elites than you will Rosaries).

A number of embittered German in the Post-Versailles period were looking for a scapegoat, and the Jews happened to be the target of choice for a certain demonically-charismatic demagogue. It could've equally well been any other Racial Minority, say the Gypsies for example (actually, it was them, also).

If "religion" were the motivating force, one would have expected the Nazi anti-semitic Laws to offer various exemptions for confessing "Christian" or "Messianic" Jews. I don't recall there being any.

23 posted on 03/23/2004 5:32:16 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian (We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: ChicagoHebrew
"For the record, I'm 25 now, so this was less than 20 years ago."

What? That's in the '80s! You were 5 and "remember getting the sh*t kicked out of me by some Italian punks growing up in Philly for killing Christ." That's insane.

24 posted on 03/23/2004 5:49:48 PM PST by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: spunkets
didn't happen when I was five. I think it happened when I was 8 or 9, don't remember exactly.
25 posted on 03/23/2004 6:41:28 PM PST by ChicagoHebrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: ChicagoHebrew
That's still terrible. I grew up in the S. side of Chicago. I was attacked countless times for what amounted to no reason whatsoever. The excuses, rants and claims were always empty. The attacks were made simply, because they figured they had the upper hand. The first time was by the mailman when I was ~4. I was ~1/2 block away to try and play with some kids I saw and he started slapping me. He said I didn't belong there and should get back to where I came from. LOL! I knew right away he was nuts.
26 posted on 03/23/2004 9:01:00 PM PST by spunkets
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
There was no official, legal discrimination against Jews in Austria-Hungary OR the German Empire prior to the rise of Nazism. There was residual social prejudice, but it varied by region and social class.

Antipathy towards Jews had multiple causes. As in Russia and elsewhere in Europe, there was a very strong involvement of Jews in German Communism. These people were rightly understood as being agents of a foreign power, whose goal was the destruction of law, order, and Christianity in Germany.

On the other side of the political spectrum, German Jews with access to foreign capital (through their "kinship newtorks") started buying up everything in sight once the German economy fell apart.

In addition, many of the artists and entertainers who led, exemplified and aggravated the decadence that is a byword for the Weimar republic were Jewish.

When the Allies imposed their unjust peace on Germany and Austria-Hungary, one of the principles on which it was based was "national self-determination." In other words: racism. The existing governments which Wilson and his friends destroyed (with the help of Jewish Communists) had been based on personal loyalty and legal tradition. In the previous Christian monarchical/parliamentarian system, there was a place in the national community for anyone whose loyalty was to the fatherland. Jews, therefore, were as assimilable as Slavs.

The Treaty of Versailles heralded the triumph of racism and the end of any national community based on personal loyalty. In light of this. Jewish involvement in many different forms of treasonous and destructive behaviour came to be seen not as acts by individuals but rather as an expression of inherent genetic evil.

The "scapegoating" of the Jews was not manufactured out of thin air, but was the result of a consistent application of Versailles-sponsored racial doctrine. Bear in mind that from 1914 onwards it had been a standard feature of Western propaganda to claim that the Germans were inherently evil. Germans simply adopted the same attitude towards the Jews that the Allies, often under the influence of Jewish-American emigrants, had adopted towards Germany.
27 posted on 03/24/2004 8:31:45 AM PST by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson