Online anti-Catholicism rears its ugly head

OSV ^ | Tom Tracy

[biblewonk]

Reading the bible is wonderful and I hope you make time to read it at the very least once per year. You will not find much about Mary in there though. The more you read it, I hope, the more your thinking will align with what you find in there. I would even hope that after reading through it several times you might start asking some of those difficult questions of your Catholic "Priests" and teachers.

[netmilsmom]

Please understand that everytime I strayed away from the Catholic Church, something brought me back. I know that those who hold a grudge with my church believe that there is a better way. When I have searched for the better way, I was always brought back.
My dad, who was a very wise man, told me a long time ago to cover all my bases. "If some other denomination wants to pray for you, don't overlook it. They may be right but only God knows that." He died at 52 when I was only 21 years old. He covered all his bases before he died. I have to believe that this man who went on his lunch hour to help feed adult retarded patients and always smiled for everyone, was not pushed out of heaven because he prayed a rosary in the afternoon.

[biblewonk]

Please understand that everytime I strayed away from the Catholic Church, something brought me back. I know that those who hold a grudge with my church believe that there is a better way. When I have searched for the better way, I was always brought back. My dad, who was a very wise man, told me a long time ago to cover all my bases. "If some other denomination wants to pray for you, don't overlook it. They may be right but only God knows that." He died at 52 when I was only 21 years old. He covered all his bases before he died. I have to believe that this man who went on his lunch hour to help feed adult retarded patients and always smiled for everyone, was not pushed out of heaven because he prayed a rosary in the afternoon.

There is only one base that needs to be covered and it may be an overreaction on my part but it bums me out that he didn't know that. I know you've already been hammered on the simple gospel message biblethumpers preach and how it differes from the Catholic one. As you read the bible notice how all of it is about Jesus. It is really wondeful to ponder how the Father spends so much time and creativity writing about His Son. As you ponder that it starts to be clear why He would remove all of your sins the moment you simply believe in that One whom He loves so much.

[netmilsmom]

So are you saying that my father did not make it into heaven because he was Catholic?

[sinkspur]

With all due respect, "Catholic thinking" aligns perfectly with Scripture. Unfortunately, you don't think much of the guarantees that Christ made to Peter, and the promise that He would be with His Church until the end of time.

[jude24]

A few ladies were taken aback when I said I was Catholic and I actually had one woman say to me, "But you're so Christian!" Truly I know this is not the run of the mill.

You might be suprised to realize that this is more common than you think.

Historically, Protestants have been taught that Roman Catholicism is a perversion of Christianity -- that it is the result of an unholy union between Christianity and paganism. Hislop's The Two Babylons still looms large in Protestantism. They've been taught that Catholicism is Mystery Babylon, Mother of Harlots, Queen of the abominations of the earth. (Thats Rev. 17 language, BTW).

In recent years, though, the pendulum has begun to swing the other way. Due in large part to the parachurch organization movement -- PromiseKeepers and Campus Crusade, for instance, and also the pro-life movement, Protestants and Catholics are getting to meet each other in religious settings and finding out, hey, this guy's not so different from me. A whole another world of Christians is opening up to Protestants.

The pendulum may have swung too far the other way: now, there's a tendancy amongst Christians (evangelical Protestants, anyway) to minimize the doctrinal disagreements between evangelicalism and Catholicism. There are some very real and very serious theological disagreements that we cannot simply pretend do not exist. Veneration of Mary is a good example. To an evangelical Protestant, the veneration of Mary violates the very basis of monotheism. To a Catholic, disagreement with the veneration of Mary is an attack that evokes the same emotions when someone insults one's own mother.

[netmilsmom]

Thank you so much!

[NYer]

One of the best descriptions of the Catholic mass comes from a (former) protestant. Here is his testimony.

Scott Hahn Scott Hahn’s The Lamb's Supper - The Mass as Heaven on Earth.
Foreword by Fr. Benedict Groeschel.
Part One - The Gift of the Mass

Hahn begins by describing the first mass he ever attended.

"There I stood, a man incognito, a Protestant minister in plainclothers, slipping into the back of a Catholic chapel in Milwaukee to witness my first Mass. Curiosity had driven me there, and I still didn't feel sure that it was healthy curiosity. Studying the writings of the earliest Christians, I'd found countless references to "the liturgy," "the Eucharist," "the sacrifice." For those first Christians, the Bible - the book I loved above all - was incomprehensible apart from the event that today's Catholics called "the Mass."

"I wanted to understand the early Christians; yet I'd had no experience of liturgy. So I persuaded myself to go and see, as a sort of academic exercise, but vowing all along that I would neither kneel nor take part in idolatry."

I took my seat in the shadows, in a pew at the very back of that basement chapel. Before me were a goodly number of worshipers, men and women of all ages. Their genuflections impressed me, as did their apparent concentration in prayer. Then a bell rang, and they all stood as the priest emerged from a door beside the altar.

Unsure of myself, I remained seated. For years, as an evangelical Calvinist, I'd been trained to believe that the Mass was the ultimate sacrilege a human could commit. The Mass, I had been taught, was a ritural that purported to "resacrifice Jesus Christ." So I would remain an observer. I would stay seated, with my Bible open beside me.

As the Mass moved on, however, something hit me. My Bible wasn't just beside me. It was before me - in the words of the Mass! One line was from Isaiah, another from Psalms, another from Paul. The experience was overwhelming. I wanted to stop everything and shout, "Hey, can I explain what's happening from Scripture? This is great!" Still, I maintained my observer status. I remained on the sidelines until I heard the priest pronounce the words of consecration: "This is My body . . . This is the cup of My blood."

Then I felt all my doubt drain away. As I saw the priest raise that white host, I felt a prayer surge from my heart in a whisper: "My Lord and my God. That's really you!"

I was what you might call a basket case from that point. I couldn't imagine a greater excitement than what those words had worked upon me. Yet the experience was intensified just a moment later, when I heard the congregation recite: "Lamb of God . . . Lamb of God . . . Lamb of God," and the priest respond, "This is the Lamb of God . . ." as he raised the host. In less than a minute, the phrase "Lamb of God" had rung out four times. From long years of studying the Bible, I immediately knew where I was. I was in the Book of Revelation, where Jesus is called the Lamb no less than twenty-eight times in twenty-two chapters. I was at the marriage feast that John describes at the end of that very last book of the Bible. I was before the throne of heaven, where Jesus is hailed forever as the Lamb. I wasn't ready for this, though - I was at Mass!

[biblewonk]

So are you saying that my father did not make it into heaven because he was Catholic?

Can you show me where I said that.

[biblewonk]

With all due respect, "Catholic thinking" aligns perfectly with Scripture. Unfortunately, you don't think much of the guarantees that Christ made to Peter, and the promise that He would be with His Church until the end of time.

Yes I think a lot of what the Lord said to Peter. But it is obvious that what He said is not what you think, otherwise there would have been quite a bit more mention of the idea somewhere else in the NT. That darned ole Paul just fails to mention the real important things doesn't he, like all the secrets about Mary and the seat of Peter and all those important things.

[biblewonk]

DeMontfort feels that he is scriptural also. I've read quite a few things about the scriptural basis of Catholicism.

As I read them I get very discouraged as I see the same patterns of verbage that pull one away from the very scriptures they are supposed to lead you towards.

[sinkspur]

But it is obvious that what He said is not what you think, otherwise there would have been quite a bit more mention of the idea somewhere else in the NT. That darned ole Paul just fails to mention the real important things doesn't he, like all the secrets about Mary and the seat of Peter and all those important things.

So, because Paul never mentions abortion, I suppose abortion is OK?

You've got to do better than that.

[biblewonk]

I've heard of Scott Hahn before. He is not exactly what I'd call a fundamentalist bible thumper who got converted to Catholicism.

[biblewonk]

Paul never mentioned gapping spark plugs either, but regarding basic Christian doctrine, he all but wrote the whole book. To think that thinks about a "pope" and "Marianism" would have escaped his attention is just plain deceitful.

[biblewonk]

Regarding doing better than that, I can do no better than the bible. It is surprising how insufficient that is for many.

[sinkspur]

Paul never mentioned gapping spark plugs either, but regarding basic Christian doctrine, he all but wrote the whole book. To think that thinks about a "pope" and "Marianism" would have escaped his attention is just plain deceitful.

Actually, Mary's and Peter's role were already accepted in the early Christian community. Paul's silence simply confirmed his own acceptance of their importance.

[biblewonk]

Actually, Mary's and Peter's role were already accepted in the early Christian community. Paul's silence simply confirmed his own acceptance of their importance.

OHHHHHHHHH. Paul didn't write about Marianism nor about the Pope because everyone already knew about it! This is a new revelation for me.