Some Catholics show anger at all-male foot washing [Atlanta]

Atlanta Journal-Constitution ^ | 4/9/04 | John Blake

[narses]

Document your claims. Did he know it was widespread? Did he authorize it? What are the actual circumstances rather than your suppositions? (Based on your performance yesterday and today regarding such claims, you'll understand why I inquire).

Besides, perhaps he may simply have awakened to the error of his ways and saw a need to correct them. He is the authority and they rebel. They do, in the defense of feminism, Modernism and Americanism what the SSPX does in defense of Tradition. You embrace one and reject the other. Don't you see any irony here Deacon?

[sinkspur]

Did he know it was widespread?

LOL!! Of course he did.

For ten years!

[B Knotts]

He is the authority and they rebel. They do, in the defense of feminism, Modernism and Americanism what the SSPX does in defense of Tradition.

A valid point, and one that has often crossed my mind.

I do not adhere to SSPX, and disagree with their strategies, but it seems to me that the dissenters within the formal Church are at least as disobedient as most of the so-called "schimatics" in SSPX.

Yet, the SSPXers are treated as pariahs, while the liberals are handled with kid gloves.

[gbcdoj]

The Society ordained their own bishops. Any Modernist bishop in the Church who did the same thing would get the same treatment from the Vatican.

The fact that Lefebvre and his Society didn't get excommunicated for this:

We refuse, on the other hand, and have always refused to follow the Rome of neo-Modernist and neo-Protestant tendencies which were clearly evident in the Second Vatican Council and, after the Council, in all the reforms which issued from it.

really says it all concerning the laxity with which the Roman Pontiffs treated the SSPX.

[B Knotts]

I wasn't talking about Lefebvre himself, who clearly invoked a latae sententiae excommunication by his actions.

I'm talking about the run-of-the-mill SSPX types.

It just seems like traditionalist dissenters are promptly and harshly dealt with, while modernist abuses are winked at, at least to some degree.

[B Knotts]

You should really check out "Thoroughly Modern Mary's" take on this:

Maundy Thursday

For the humor impaired: yes, it's satire.

[rogator]

"The Society ordained their own bishops. Any Modernist bishop in the Church who did the same thing would get the same treatment from the Vatican."

The Chinese Patriotic Association doesn't get the same treatment.

[gbcdoj]

I am indeed happy to reaffirm my deep affection and esteem in our Lord Jesus Christ to all the Catholic sons and daughters of the great and illustrious Chinese family. With all the ardour of my heart I feel spiritually present among them, and I assure them that I am especially close to those who have remained faithful to Jesus Christ and to his Church in the midst of difficulties of all kinds, and have testified and continue to testify, even at the cost of deep and prolonged suffering, that the principle of communion with the Successor of Peter, whom the Lord constituted his Vicar and the ' permanent and visible source and foundation of unity of faith and fellowship' (Lumen gentium, n. 18), cannot be renounced by a Catholic who desires to remain such and to be recognized as such. (John Paul II, Letter to Cardinal Tomko)

The CPA was excommunicated already by Pius XII. If it were to have been founded during this Pope's reign, I am sure he would have excommunicated them.

[narses]

I do not adhere to SSPX, and disagree with their strategies, but it seems to me that the dissenters within the formal Church are at least as disobedient as most of the so-called "schimatics" in SSPX.

Yet, the SSPXers are treated as pariahs, while the liberals are handled with kid gloves.

Look, as far as the SSPX is concerned, they are a part of a much larger Catholic Church. They know it is the Church Christ founded that carries His guarantee, not any particular order within the Church. They know, they are not the issue, God's Will is. (They often don't ACT like they know they are not the issue, but they do know that.) Is it conceivable that God's Will include child molesting priests being aided, recruited, enabled and protected by the Weakland's of THIS world? The reality is that the leadership of the RCC in America is demonstrably FAR more swift to punish in every way possible ORTHODOXY in defense of Tradition than they are HETERODOXY in defiance of the same.

Can anyone explain that in a way that makes sense?

[narses]

PS, it isn't just the SSPX. Almost ANY organized group of orthodoxy gets meeted out harsh treatment while almost ALL heterodox groups get welcomed and embraced.

[narses]

"LOL!! Of course he did."

So you say, but document it. After all you're the one who claimed the Venn. Anna Catherine Emerich's Canonization had stopped 76 years ago. And ask yourself, what if he realized it was WRONG? When he did, he had an obligation to act, he acted and his subordinates rebelled. They are not even in UNION with their OWN Bishop. How can they claim UNION with Rome?

[B Knotts]

Can anyone explain that in a way that makes sense?

The only explanation I can offer is that we have too many bishops that are enamored of the ways of the world. That is why so many of them embrace political correctness, and every goofy liberal cause that they stumble upon, yet reject orthodoxy, piety and obedience to the Magisterium.

They need to remember that they if they are teaching in a way that is easily accepted by secular society, there is probably something wrong.

[ninenot]

On the other hand, the ceremonies at Transfiguration Catholic Church and St. Joseph's Catholic Church were clearly prohibited additions to the liturgy

Depends on when they took place. If they occurred before or after the Mass, they would not be prohibited.

Ah, Sink. Such hypocrisy from a DEATH PENALTY guy...

[ninenot]

He's changing a practice that has been ongoing for over 20 years, and that is still ongoing in most dioceses around the country

Prior license to disobey does not constitute grounds for continuing disobedience.

[ninenot]

And, of course, there could be NO OTHER REASON to have dismissed these two than that which THEY gave to the newspaper.

[ninenot]

In this case, the fault is not with the priests.

You've become a troll, Sink.

[ninenot]

Your "children" analogy is spot-on, Chuck. I noticed that earlier and Sinky seems to have taken umbrage.

If it walks like, talks like, acts like....

[ninenot]

You mean like Aquinas' opinion that the reason masturbation .......

The old "switch the topic to something totally irrelevant" technique.

Clumsy, Sink.

[sinkspur]

You've become a troll, Sink.

He says, with a troll-like remark.

Argue the point.

[ninenot]

OK.

It's a commonplace that "ignorance is no excuse" under the law, i.e., while ignorance of the law MAY alter the degree of guilt, it does NOT abrogate the guilt.

So for you to say that the priests' practice of violating the law "is not their fault" is silly, and erroneous.