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After the Ball--Why the Homosexual Movement Has Won
Crosswalk.com ^ | June 3, 2004 | Dr. R. Albert Mohler, Jr.

Posted on 06/04/2004 6:38:28 AM PDT by sauerkraut

The spectacular success of the homosexual movement stands as one of the most fascinating phenomena of our time. In less than two decades, homosexuality has moved from "the love that dares not speak its name," to the center of America's public life. The homosexual agenda has advanced even more quickly than its most ardent proponents had expected, and social change of this magnitude demands some explanation.

A partial explanation of the homosexual movement's success can be traced to the 1989 publication of After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90s. Published with little fanfare, this book became the authoritative public relations manual for the homosexual agenda, and its authors presented the book as a distillation of public relations advice for the homosexual community. A look back at its pages is an occasion for understanding just how successful their plan was.

Authors Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen combined psychiatric and public relations expertise in devising their strategy. Kirk, a researcher in neuropsychiatry, and Madsen, a public relations consultant, argued that homosexuals must change their presentation to the heterosexual community if real success was to be made.

Conceiving their book as a "gay manifesto for the 1990s," the authors called for homosexuals to repackage themselves as mainstream citizens demanding equal treatment, rather than as a promiscuous sexual minority seeking greater opportunity and influence.

Writing just as the AIDS crisis hit its greatest momentum, the authors saw the disease as an opportunity to change the public mind. "As cynical as it may seem, AIDS gives us a chance, however brief, to establish ourselves as a victimized minority legitimately deserving of America's special protection and care," they wrote.

Give them credit: they really did understand the operation of the public mind. Kirk and Madsen called for homosexuals to talk incessantly about homosexuality in public. "Open, frank talk makes gayness seem less furtive, alien, and sinful; more above board," they asserted. "Constant talk builds the impression that public opinion is at least divided on the subject, and that a sizeable bloc--the most modern, up-to-date citizens--accept or even practice homosexuality."

Nevertheless, not all talk about homosexuality is helpful. "And when we say talk about homosexuality, we mean just that. In the early stages of the campaign, the public should not be shocked and repelled by premature exposure to homosexual behavior itself. Instead, the imagery of sex per se should be downplayed, and the issue of gay rights reduced, as far as possible, to an abstract social question."

Portraying homosexuals as victims was essential to their strategy. Offering several principles for tactical advance in their cause, the authors called upon homosexuals to "portray gays as victims of circumstance and depression, not as aggressive challengers." This would be necessary, they argued, because "gays must be portrayed as victims in need of protection so that straights will be inclined by reflex to adopt the role of protector."

Such a strategy could, they asserted, lead to something like a "conversion" of the public mind on the question of homosexuality. "The purpose of victim imagery is to make straights feel very uncomfortable; that is, to jam with shame the self-righteous pride that would ordinarily accompany and reward their antigay belligerence, and to lay groundwork for the process of conversion by helping straights identify with gays and sympathize with their underdog status."

Obviously, this would mean marginalizing some members of the homosexual community. Kirk and Madsen were bold to advise a mainstreaming of the homosexual image. "In practical terms, this means that cocky mustachioed leather-men, drag queens, and bull dykes would not appear in gay commercials and other public presentations. Conventional young people, middle-age women, and older folks of all races would be featured, not to mention the parents and straight friends of gays." Furthermore, "It cannot go without saying, incidentally, that groups on the farthest margins of acceptability, such as NAMBLA [North American Man-Boy Love Association], must play no part at all in such a campaign. Suspected child molesters will never look like victims."

What about the origin of sexual orientation? The success of the homosexual movement can be largely traced to the very idea of "orientation" itself. More precisely, homosexuals advanced their cause by arguing that they were born that way. Madsen and Kirk offer this as candid public relations advice. "We argue that, for all practical purposes, gays should be considered to have been born gay--even though sexual orientation, for most humans, seems to be the product of a complex interaction between innate predispositions and environmental factors during childhood and early adolescence." Alas, "To suggest in public that homosexuality might be chosen is to open the can of worms labeled 'moral choices and sin' and give the religious intransigents a stick to beat us with. Straights must be taught that it is as natural for some persons to be homosexual as it is for others to be heterosexual: wickedness and seduction have nothing to do with it."

There can be no doubt that Christianity represents the greatest obstacle to the normalization of homosexual behavior. It cannot be otherwise, because of the clear biblical teachings concerning the inherent sinfulness of homosexuality in all forms, and the normativity of heterosexual marriage. In order to counter this obstacle, Kirk and Madsen advised gays to "use talk to muddy the moral waters, that is, to undercut the rationalizations that 'justify' religious bigotry and to jam some of its psychic rewards." How can this be done? "This entails publicizing support by moderate churches and raising serious theological objections to conservative biblical teachings. It also means exposing the inconsistency and hatred underlying antigay doctrines."

Conservative churches, defined by the authors as "homohating" are portrayed as "antiquated backwaters, badly out of step with the times and with the latest findings of psychology."

A quick review of the last 15 years demonstrates the incredible effectiveness of this public relations advice. The agenda set out by Kirk and Madsen led to nothing less than social transformation. By portraying themselves as mainstream Americans seeking nothing but liberty and self-fulfillment, homosexuals redefined the moral equation. Issues of right and wrong were isolated as outdated, repressive, and culturally embarrassing. Instead, the assertion of "rights" became the hallmark of the public relations strategy.

Other principles offered by the authors included making gays look good by identifying strategic historical figures as being hidden homosexuals, and, on the other hand, making "victimizers" look bad in the public eye. Kirk and Madsen suggested isolating conservative Christians by presenting them as "hysterical backwoods preachers, drooling with hate to a degree that looks both comical and deranged." They offered a concrete example of how this strategy could be used on television and in print. "For example, for several seconds an unctuous beady-eyed Southern preacher is shown pounding the pulpit in rage against 'those perverted, abominable creatures.'" While his tirade continues over the soundtrack, the picture switches to heart-rending photos of badly beaten persons, or of gays who look decent, harmless, and likeable; and then we cut back to the poisonous face of the preacher. The contrast speaks for itself. The effect is devastating."

Public relations is now a major part of the American economy, with hundreds of millions of dollars poured into advertising strategies and image enhancement programs. Observers of the public relations world must look back with slack-jawed amazement at the phenomenal success of the approach undertaken by homosexuals over the last two decades. The advice offered by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen is nothing less than a manifesto for moral revolution. A look back at this strategy indicates just how self-consciously the homosexual movement advanced its cause by following this plan.

Those who oppose the normalization of homosexuality have indeed been presented as backwoods, antiquated, and dangerous people, while those advancing the cause are presented as forces for light, progress, and acceptance. Conservative Christians have indeed been presented as proponents of hatred rather than as individuals driven by biblical conviction. The unprecedented success of this public relations strategy helps to explain why America has accepted everything from homosexual characters and plotlines in prime-time entertainment to the lack of outrage in response to same-sex marriage in Massachusetts.

At least we know what we are up against. Biblical Christians must continue to talk about right and wrong even when the larger world dismisses morality as an outdated concept. We must maintain marriage as a non-negotiable norm--a union of a man and a woman--even when the courts redefine marriage by fiat. At the same time, we must take into account the transformation of the American mind that is now so devastatingly evident to all who have eyes to see.

The real tragedy of After the Ball is that the great result of this is not a party, but the complete rejection of the very moral foundations which made this society possible. In order to address the most fundamental problems, we must understand the shape of the American mind. Looking back at After the Ball after fifteen years, it all comes into frightening focus.


TOPICS: Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: aftertheball; agenda1; bookreview; homosexualagenda; huntermadsen; km; marshallkirk; prisoners; theagenda

1 posted on 06/04/2004 6:38:29 AM PDT by sauerkraut
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To: sauerkraut

A good analysis of just how successful the gay propaganda machine has been in demonizing Christian sexual morality.


2 posted on 06/04/2004 7:06:39 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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Comment #3 Removed by Moderator

To: sauerkraut

"After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90s"

I've never heard of this, but it sounds like the author confuses hatres of Gays with concern for what offical approval of a dysfunctional lifestyle and behaviour means for culture and society.


4 posted on 06/04/2004 10:09:06 AM PDT by nosofar
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To: sauerkraut

"The real tragedy of After the Ball is that the great result of this is not a party, but the complete rejection of the very moral foundations which made this society possible."

And the foundations which would allow this society to continue. But I suppose that's the point.


5 posted on 06/04/2004 10:14:53 AM PDT by nosofar
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To: little jeremiah; scripter; Travis McGee; ArGee; lentulusgracchus; Bryan; MeekOneGOP; Coleus
Ping


What We Can Do To Help Defeat the "Gay" Agenda


Homosexual Agenda: Categorical Index of Links (Version 1.1)


Myth and Reality about Homosexuality--Sexual Orientation Section, Guide to Family Issues"

6 posted on 06/04/2004 4:56:22 PM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: nosofar
See the following:

The Overhauling of Straight America

The Homosexual Propaganda and Media Manipulation Game

7 posted on 06/04/2004 5:00:31 PM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - All donations are greatly appreciated. Thank you for your support!)
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To: *Homosexual Agenda; EdReform; scripter; GrandMoM; backhoe; Yehuda; Clint N. Suhks; saradippity; ...

Homosexual Agenda Ping - Just waltzed in, have to pingify ASAP and will join the discussion after.

I hope all of you can read this one, it looks very important since "After the Ball" was the plan to destroy morality in the US (actually, the world) and mold the culture to not only "accept gays" but indeed, "celebrate gayness".

I, personally, refuse to accept defeat. There are new human beings born every minute. Do we want to condemn them to live in a (pardon the expression) whorehouse of sexual libertinism, with the natural family more or less destroyed?

Where there's life, there's hope.

Let me know if anyone wants on/off this (very busy) pinglist.


8 posted on 06/04/2004 6:15:28 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Take Back The Rainbow! Take back the word "GAY"!)
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To: nosofar

"After the Ball" was written by a couple of radical (or mainstream, depending on definition) homosexuals. It was the blueprint, or plan, of how to "homosexualize" America. Many if not most of their ideas have come to pass. I'll try to find my summary of the book (I didn't write it, I found it on FR.) Gives an idea of the topics covered. It's guaranteed to blow your mind.


9 posted on 06/04/2004 6:17:54 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Take Back The Rainbow! Take back the word "GAY"!)
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To: nosofar

Here's the summary of "After the Ball":

(Comments are not written by me - I know it's a long read but everyone should scan this summary.)


The Homosexual Propaganda and Media Manipulation Game...


Although homosexual propaganda has been around for 50 years, the current campaign started in 1989 with a very popular book within the homosexual community called: “After the Ball: How America Will Conquer Its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 1990s” by Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen. This very popular book within the homosexual community makes a passionate argument that homosexual activists should implement an organized propaganda campaign to change public opinion to gain public acceptance to their behavior and obtain special rights, benefits, and privileges. Their rationalization for launching such a campaign is that people who do not agree with them are “bigots, haters, or ignorants”, and therefore activists can and should justifiably employ any tactic possible, including mass deceit, lying, slander, maliciousness, intimidation, violence, etc. Although many activists initially condemned this approach at first in public, remaining hold outs have jumped on board after benefitting from the success of the propaganda campaign. The following are exerpts taken from “After The Ball.” These strategies, tactics, and techniques have been and are currently employed by most homosexual activist groups, as verified by their well documented trail.

1) The homosexual agenda can succeed by conversion of the average Americans emotions, mind, and will, through, a planned psychological attack in the form of propaganda to the nation via media (page 153);

2) “Propaganda relies more upon emotional manipulation that upon logic, since its goal is to bring about public change” (page 162);

3) Propaganda can be unabashedly subjective and one-sided, there is nothing wrong with this (page 163);

4) Homosexual agenda can succeed by “desensitization” achieved by lowering the intensity of antigay emotional reactions to a level of sheer indifference (page 153);

5) Homosexual agenda can succeed by “jamming” and “confusing” adversaries, so as to block or counteract the “rewarding of prejudice” (page 153);

6) “Heterosexuals dislike homosexuals on fundamentally emotional, not intellectual grounds” (page 166)

7) “Desensitizing” is “our recipe” for converting “ambivalent skeptics”;

8) Make victimizers look bad by linking to Nazi horror while helping straights to see gays as victims and feel protective towards them (page 221);

9) The Nazi story of “pink triangle as a symbol of victimization” should be a sufficient opening wedge into the vilification of our enemies (page 190);

10) Show grisly victimization of gays and demand that readers identify themselves with either social tolerance or gruesome cruelty;

11) Discourage anti-gay harassment by linking and calling all those that have opposing opinions to latent homosexuality (i.e., call people homophobic) (page 227)

12) Jam people by pointing out that it’s inconsistent with the reader’s belief in the value of love between individuals (page 233);

13) AIDS epidemic should be exploited “to increase attention and sympathy” as “victimized minority.”(page xxv)
14) “We argue that for all practical purposes, gays should be considered to have been born gay, even though sexual orientation, for most humans, seems to be the product of a complex interaction between innate predispositions and environmental factors during childhood and early adolescence” (page 184);

15) “Muddy the moral waters”, that is, to undercut the rationalization that justify religious opposition… this entails publicizing support by moderate churches and raising serious theological objections” (page 179);

16) Portray opposing churches “as antiquated backwaters”, badly out of step with the time and with the latest findings of psychology (page 179);

17) Jam the self-righteous pride by linking to a disreputable hate group (page 235);

18) The main thing is to talk about gayness until the issue becomes thoroughly tiresome (page 178);

19) All opposing disagreements to homosexual behavior is rooted in “Homophobia, Homohatred, and Prejudice” (page 112)

20) It is acceptible to call people “Homophobic” or “Homohaters” if they do not agree 100% with homosexual views, opinions, or behavior. (page xxiii)

21) A media campaign should portray only the most favorable side of gays (page 170);

22) Show others accepting gays and homosexuals (page 241);

23) Heterosexuals are like Aryans and people who are against homosexual behavior are “Nazis” and “Clansman”.

24) Homosexual persecution is identical to Jewish persecution (page 57, 62, );

25) Homosexual persecution is identical racial prejudice to Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics (inferring inborn) (page 62, 73);

26) All scientific/medical arguments to prevent 1973 APA/AMA removal from disorder list were rooted in cultural prejudice, medieval knowledge of science/medicine, and misinformation.

27) “Two-thirds of all boys” have rudimentary homosexual experiences (inferring most teenagers want to have homosexual sex) (page 44)

28) “Vast majority” of homosexuals do not engage in compulsive high-risk sex (page 49)

29) American opposition is based solely on prejudiced, outdated, and hypocritical Victorian morals (page 51)

30) All homosexually suicides are based entirely on societal rejection (page xv)

31) All sexual morality should be abolished (pages 64 to 67);

32) Homosexual civil rights are “explicitly set forth in the Bill of Rights”;

33) Health concerns for AIDS prevention are unwarranted (page 91)

34) Opposition to homosexual marriages is based on “family nostalgia” and “sexual guilt” based on religious/Victorian values (page 92)

35) Adoption agencies have been “placing kids with gay people for a long time,” as long as “you do not bring up” the fact that your gay;

36) “Kids in gay households ultimately receive better-than-average parenting” (page 97)

37) All speech that is opposing homosexual behavior should be banned under “clear and present danger to public order” (page 101)

38) All and any news or media coverage that is presents homosexual in negative form is prejudiced and invalid (page 54);

39) Everyone comes out must be prepped by a media campaign carefully crafted, repeatedly displayed mass-media images of gays (page 169);

40) “Gay activists have tried to manipulate the American judicial system.” Sometimes the tactic works: many executive orders (which side step the democratic process) and ordinances passed by city councils now protect certain rights (page 171);

41) “Employ images that desensitize, jam, and/or convert on an emotional level” (page 173);

42) “Gain access to the kinds of public media that would automatically confer legitimacy upon these messages and sponsors” (page 173);

43) “Ambivalent skeptics” are our most promising targets (page 176)…

44) Associate gay cause with “talk about racism, sexism, militarism, poverty, and all the conditions that oppress the unempowered.” (page 181)

45) Project gays as victims of circumstance and oppression, not as aggressive challengers (page 183);

46) “Mustachioed leather men, drag queens, and bull dykes” should not appear in gay commercials and other public presentations (until later after wide acceptance) (page 183);

47) Groups on the farthest margins of acceptability, such as NAMBLA, must play no part at all in the medioa campaign (page 184);

48) Gays should be portrayed as victims of prejudice…graphic pictures of brutalized gays, dramatizations of job and housing insecurity, loss of child custody, public humiliation… (page 185);

49) In time we see no reason why more and more diversity should not be introduced into the projected image (i.e., drag queens, pedophiles, etc.) (page 186);

50) Infer and speculate that famous historical figures were gay for two reasons: first, they are dead as a door nail, hence in no position to deny the truth and sue for libel; (page 188)

51) In TV and print, images of victimizers can be combined with those of their gay victims by a method propagandists call the “bracket technique” (page 190);

52) The media campaign will reach straights on an emotional level, casting gays as society’s victims and inviting straights to be their protectors (page 187);

53) We like television because it’s the most graphic and intrusive medium for our message (page 201)

54) Over the long-term, “television and magazines” are probably the media of choice (page 204);

55) Ads must manage to get the word gay into the headline or tagline (page 207);

56) Each message should tap public sentiment, patriotic, or otherwise, and drill an unimpeachable agreeable proposition into the mainstreams head (page 208);

57) Several years down the road, our tactics will have carved out, slice by slice, a large portion of access to mainstream media (page 213);

58) Associate and link gays to good causes and non-controversial activities (page 219);

59) The more people who appear to practice homosexuality, and the more innate it appears to be, the less abnormal and objectionable, and the more legitimate it will seem (which is why it is important to maintain claims to 10% of the population)(page 217)

60) Stage candid interviews with gays who appear as solid citizens. Subjects in commercials should be interviewed alone, not with their lovers (for now) (page 247);

61) Most people derive their impressions of the world through the national media (page 250);

62) It will be a sheer delight to besmirch our tormentors, we cannot waste our resources on revenge alone (page 189);

63) “Too many Americans share this mistrust of gay citizens” (page 55);

It is so outrageous and evil what homosexual activists are up to, one does not know where to start. One does not know who to feel sorriest and embarrassed for: the "ambivalent skeptic" who could care less if they were being desensitized, manipulated, and used; reporters and media officials who fail to expose such fraud and fail in their jobs as public care takers of the truth; public officials who are afraid to stand up to these activists out of fear of reprisal; the parents of the children who are apathetic and indifferent and allow their children to be desensitized, manipulated, and reprogrammed; or the homosexual activists who preach of “gays having virtue and honesty” while actively participating in on-going “hate campaigns.” Does the ends justify the means? Should any group in society be able to get away with such audacity and corruptness?



10 posted on 06/04/2004 6:29:27 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Take Back The Rainbow! Take back the word "GAY"!)
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To: EdReform

Great minds think alike - I just posted the summary of "After the Ball"!


11 posted on 06/04/2004 6:30:45 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Take Back The Rainbow! Take back the word "GAY"!)
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To: sauerkraut

BfLR


12 posted on 06/05/2004 10:33:09 AM PDT by tuesday afternoon (Honour thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long upon the land)
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To: little jeremiah
Here's one atricle.

Its always hard to find this info when we need it.

13 posted on 10/13/2005 7:34:59 PM PDT by DirtyHarryY2K (http://soapboxharry.blogspot.com/)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

Book marked.


14 posted on 10/13/2005 7:36:39 PM PDT by DirtyHarryY2K (http://soapboxharry.blogspot.com/)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

Thank you, sir!!

I will bookmark and copy parts of this thread. I used to have it a couple places on my desktop.


15 posted on 10/13/2005 7:47:22 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: Coleus; Pyro7480; NYer; Salvation; saradippity; Diago; Antoninus

I think this is worth reading. Ping.


16 posted on 10/13/2005 7:48:30 PM PDT by Maeve (O most merciful Christ, how shall I sing thee praise?)
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To: little jeremiah
It is so outrageous and evil what homosexual activists are up to, one does not know where to start.

Completely outrageous. Embarrassed and sorry for many of those mentioned. But angry at those who just blindly go along with the activism du jour, the 'worthy' cause, fighting for a victim who isn't a victim at all. Because they've been fooled. They used to know better and have allowed themselves to be fooled and now try to 'educate' us all. I'm referring specifically to folks in the media, on TV (the View and others) and education systems who allow themselves to be fooled and involved in the activism because it makes them feel good and important, even referring to the moment when they became 'enlightened' to this 'plight', as they may have had reservations in the past. Sigh.

17 posted on 10/13/2005 8:02:43 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: fortunecookie

Those promoting homosexuality as normal and natural, and promoting the viewpoint that homosexuals are victims, use guilt and fear to browbeat a spineless public into submission. The promoters aren't even necessarily homosexuals themselves; it has been adopted by the left as a pet cause (various reasons why). In schools, workplaces, families, governemnt - those who do not accept homosexual behavior as benign, and don't want the "gay" agenda shoved down their throats, are pressured, intimidated, sneered at, threatened, punished - the list is endless.

To stand up against the "gay" agenda even just by the simple words "I don't agree with this" is often to be the object of ridicule, punishment, ostracism, or worse.

But it's worth it, anything's worth it, to stand up for truth.


18 posted on 10/13/2005 8:15:38 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: little jeremiah; manc
It took awhile but I found this thread.. LJ, You mention you lost your PC and your links. this thread has some links, you may be interested. I wonder what happened to scripter?

manc.. this is a thread about the book I told you about.

19 posted on 10/23/2008 4:54:24 AM PDT by DirtyHarryY2K (Proud Father of 2 US Marines. Support our troops!)
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To: little jeremiah
PS.
Absent minded me...
It slipped my mind that most of my important links are on my FR links page..Book marked. That way if my PC crash&burn I will not lose them..
20 posted on 10/23/2008 5:05:48 AM PDT by DirtyHarryY2K (Proud Father of 2 US Marines. Support our troops!)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

great
appreciated


21 posted on 10/23/2008 6:00:14 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between a man and a woman no sick MA,CT sham marriage end racism end affirmative action)
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To: little jeremiah

exactly
I have been speaking up more all the time now.

Even in the Docs waiting room and I see a magazine with homo’s in it I talk to my wife and make it known to others that the homo agenda is trying to ruin this country.

I will not sit idly by while they try to silence us, I will not just allow people to say well I know them they are married.
No they are not, they think they are but they are not.

The mroe of us who speaks up the more we stop them pushing their agenda.
They wanted civil unions, then it was marriage, then it was adoption , then it is teaching it in schools

We only have to look at MA and how the homo radicals have forced the people of that state to accept their perversion.
I got my family out of there and know of two other families who did the same when they passed that sham marriage on the people.

I will not let Florida go the same way.
If anyone is reading this and knows any voters who do not know about question 2 in Florida then please tell them to vote yes on two

We need to get 60% of the vote so it is harder here than CA to keep our marriage, adoption etc as natural and normal


22 posted on 10/23/2008 6:21:03 AM PDT by manc (Marriage is between a man and a woman no sick MA,CT sham marriage end racism end affirmative action)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

Thanks - good idea. I’m starting from scratch and it sure is a hassle.

(Plus, I want more than 24 hours in a day!!)


23 posted on 10/23/2008 10:31:16 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: little jeremiah

Do you still run the ping list for the homosexual agenda? I fell off of it awhile ago and need to get back on...


24 posted on 11/16/2008 12:12:35 PM PST by CatQuilt (Lover of cats =^..^= and quilts)
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To: CatQuilt

Wagglebee has been running it by himself for quite a while as I went off of FR for a while. Now I’m back and I’m helping him. I will add your name today - do you want on the Moral Absolutes list too, or just the HA? You can freepmail me if you like.


25 posted on 11/16/2008 2:07:05 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: little jeremiah
I'm on wagglebee's lists, but I seem to have dropped off yours. Would you mind adding me?

Glad to see you back in the midst of it.

26 posted on 11/16/2008 2:11:50 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sauerkraut; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...

A must read for the politcally active social conservative.


27 posted on 11/16/2008 2:13:48 PM PST by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
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To: narses

I should just bump this once a week or so.


28 posted on 11/16/2008 2:15:04 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: little jeremiah

I agree.


29 posted on 11/16/2008 2:15:35 PM PST by narses (http://www.theobamadisaster.com/)
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To: trisham

Sure, trisham - you want on both lists?


30 posted on 11/16/2008 2:15:35 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: little jeremiah

You betcha. :)


31 posted on 11/16/2008 2:17:47 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: trisham; CatQuilt

I just added both of you to the Homosexual Agenda list, let me know if you want on the Moral Absolutes list as well.


32 posted on 11/16/2008 2:20:36 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: trisham; CatQuilt

I’ll add you then, and btw wag’s list and mine are the same! Periodically we or Scripter has asked people to respond if they still want on the list since we didn’t want people on the list who didn’t want to be there. Maybe that’s why either one of you sort of got off the list/s.

You betcha! ;-)


33 posted on 11/16/2008 2:22:04 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: little jeremiah

Heh. :)


34 posted on 11/16/2008 2:23:03 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: sauerkraut
Well, sometimes you have to be totally beaten down with all energy, power and self-based hope gone -- and also (G-d forbid) overwhelmed with pain and sadness, in order to then see that G-d, Himself, has left you to live and carry on -- and then to persevere and be, by his help, and that alone -- victorious.
Let the enemy pursue my soul, and overtake it, and tread my life down to the earth; yea, let him lay my glory in the dust. Selah.

* * *

Return, O LORD, deliver my soul; save me for Thy mercy's sake.
For in death there is no remembrance of Thee; in the nether-world who will give Thee thanks?
I am weary with my groaning; every night make I my bed to swim; I melt away my couch with my tears.
Mine eye is dimmed because of vexation; it waxeth old because of all mine adversaries.

Depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity; for the LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping.
The LORD hath heard my supplication; the LORD receiveth my prayer.
All mine enemies shall be ashamed and sore affrighted; they shall turn back, they shall be ashamed suddenly.


35 posted on 11/16/2008 2:25:31 PM PST by bvw
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To: little jeremiah

Yes, I remember you folks asking who wants to remain on the lists... I neglected to respond in the affirmative.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

:-)


36 posted on 11/16/2008 7:50:07 PM PST by CatQuilt (Lover of cats =^..^= and quilts)
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To: CatQuilt

Well, you’re on now! ;-)


37 posted on 11/16/2008 7:51:39 PM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: little jeremiah

Little J,

I’m already on the “Moral Absolutes” list, I believe, but would you add me to the Homo Agenda list as well? Thank you!

I have a few “gays” in my family, and they are using some of these “tactics” to throw others in the family into a state of moral confusion and emotional agony, and I’m amazed at how easily intimidated even the devout Christians are.


38 posted on 11/17/2008 12:24:01 AM PST by baa39 (www.FightFOCA.com - innocent lives depend on you)
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To: baa39

I’ll add your name right now. Yes, becoming really educated about the truth of the “gay” agenda, their tactics, their plans, their standard arguments based on lies and emotions - are really necessary to read. When I was doing the ping lists more than 1 1/2 years ago, I had tons of info I posted links to but it’s all gone with three dead computers. In a while I’ll see what I can dig up, it’s all on FR somewhere.

What people like you describe need to know is that there is ZERO evidence that anyone is “born gay”, that there are psychological reasons why people become attracted to the same sex, and that there are tens of thousands of former homosexuals, and organizations that can help them. And that real compassion is telling them the truth, and trying to help them if they want it. Real compassion is not saying “there, there” and accepting that being homosexual is an unchangeable identity.


39 posted on 11/17/2008 12:35:31 AM PST by little jeremiah (Leave illusion, come to the truth. Leave the darkness, come to the light.)
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To: little jeremiah

Thanks, you’re right. I understand that, I look at some incidents and things in one person’s life in my family, and have my own theory of why she is “gay.” I’m trying to help some in my family understand, now that the issues are being forced on us.

It’s been going on for 20 years in my family, and my Mom recently said, “When (name) told us she was gay, I wanted to be accepting, so as not to hurt her feelings. I thought it was a private problem, I never expected these people would go out and start adopting kids and having babies with artificial insemination and pretending to be married and creating spectacles in the street.”

So, as you say, it all began with, “Well, this is just how I am and IF YOU LOVE ME, and IF YOU ARE A GOOD CHRISTIAN, you will accept me.”

The other problem people need to realize is the gay agenda and the huge drive to make teenagers promiscuous (with sex ed, free condoms, abortions without parental consent, etc) are linked together.

You reminded me of another article I think you would like, about a man who “converted” from homo. Let me see if I can find....


40 posted on 11/17/2008 1:03:33 AM PST by baa39 (www.FightFOCA.com - innocent lives depend on you)
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To: little jeremiah; Salvation

Here’s the article, I hope the link works. It’s called “Coming Out of Sodom” from American Life League’s magazine, “Celebrate Life” of March 2008. Actually is a touching story. I’m pinging Salvation because she’s interested in pro-life stuff and may not have seen this.

http://clmagazine.org/backissues/2008marchapril_40-42comingoutofsodom.pdf


41 posted on 11/17/2008 1:15:33 AM PST by baa39 (www.FightFOCA.com - innocent lives depend on you)
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To: sauerkraut
Why the Homosexual Movement Has Won

Defeatist talk like this?

I'm surprised it was printed in 2004. The movement hasn't totally won yet, not even in California, and it was weaker back then.

Other reasons Mohler touches upon or doesn't mention: the universities' and mainline churches' capitulation to the Agenda, the increased presence of homosexuals in acting and other influential pop-culture venues, our corporate elite's desire and incentive to reach people with lots of disposable income, the childless' increased time and money for political action, and traditionalists' unwillingness to discuss acts once considered unspeakable.

Further, straights who reject sexual morality also find it convenient to tar as bigots people who adhere to it. Pornography and self-abuse(which is inherently same-sex) both separate sex from natural bodily interaction, and also play a huge role in the Agenda. The free porn dispenser that is the Internet is one big propaganda machine for "alternative" habits.

Oh, and don't forget contraception. A society that frustrates the natural purpose of sex in one area loses its resistance to other unnaturalities.

42 posted on 11/17/2008 3:08:58 PM PST by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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Ping for later read.


43 posted on 11/17/2008 3:12:22 PM PST by wendelmyer
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To: sauerkraut
After the Ball--Why the Homosexual Movement Has Won

To say the homosexuals have won is to say the battles are over. The battles are certainly not over. The war is, though, and the homosexuals certainly have lost.

Just as in World War II, after the war was declared lost, even after Japan surrendered, some fighting still went on. But,, the war was lost for both Japan and Germany.

The same principles hold true here. They may have made some gains in our culture, just as a lot of other sinners have. The Germans made gains during the Battle of the Bulge. But, they were temporary gains, and they went on to lose the war.

Jesus sits on the Throne. And he is returning soon to this earth. And guess what,, every nation is going to serve the Lord, and every knee will bow and confess that He is Lord. I Corinth 6:9

"Do you not know that the unrighteous will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, ... nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, ... will inherit the Kingdom of God.

Rev. 21:2 I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.

The new Jerusalem is coming down from heaven to this earth! When Jesus comes back,, He is coming back for a perfect bride,, without spot or wrinkle. This is the churches finest hour! The battle is not over,, but the war has been won! And Jesus and the church are victorious!

44 posted on 11/17/2008 3:35:56 PM PST by freemike
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BTTT


45 posted on 06/28/2013 4:31:42 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Sarah Barracuda; Dartman

The thread I just mentioned.


46 posted on 07/01/2013 1:56:51 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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