Skip to comments.SSPX FRANCE REPORTEDLY IN CHAOS
Posted on 09/20/2004 7:38:56 AM PDT by NYer
Taking a break from judging annulments earlier today, I visited a number of French traditionalist websites. I also had the opportunity, yesterday, to speak with a friend of mine who is a canonist from France following the situation as well as another friend who keeps tabs on the traditionalist movement in both the English and the French speaking world. Everyone agrees -- the situation has degenerated into total chaos, as nobody knows exactly what is going on with the highly-respected French SSPX clergy that have criticized what they see as the SSPX's growing rigidity.
It does appear that Rome has refused to take competency over the case, more-or-less stating that the SSPX denied Rome's jurisdiction over them when Lefebvre carried out a schismatic act through the 1988 episcopal consecrations. Beyond that, Rome refuses to comment other than to say, "Our door remains open for their return to full communion."
Beyond that, the rhetoric, polemic and accusations suggest that indeed civil war is breaking out among the laity and clergy within the SSPX's French District. In fact, two websites have now popped up that are exclusively devoted to tracing all the news stories associated with the crisis. What I find personally find interesting is that every news report, commentary, polemic, etc... mentions Fr. Aulagnier's expulsion from the SSPX around this time last year.
In the months that followed, it appears that the SSPX more-or-less tried to sweep Fr. Aulagnier's expulsion under the rug. But in so doing, even the regime currently in charge of the SSPX had to admit the important role played by Fr. Aulagnier in the founding of the SSPX. This is probably why the SSPX appeared to hope the issue would go away.
Yet it is also well-known that Fr. Aulagnier was a close friend of Fr. Laguerie as well as Fr. de Tanouarn -- two of the SSPX's leading priests. (As Fr. Laguerie's assistant, Fr. Henri appears to have just happened into the situation). It is also well-known that a number of French (and some American) SSPX priests were not happy with Fr. Aulagnier's expulsion. Therefore, I will venture to guess that the current SSPX chaos is the effect of Fr. Aulagnier's expulsion coming back to haunt Bishop Fellay. As for the particular details, this is the first time in almost fourteen years of being a traditionalist that I find the fog of war too thick to reasonably discern what is going on. (What I find even more troubling is that behind the scenes, under the flag of truce, other SSPX and traditionalist commentators with whom I am in contact have admitted to having the same problem.)
So if I can end on a personal note to the moderate SSPX clergy and their supporters who follow this blog, I'm more than happy to abide by the flag of truce and keep you guys in prayer while you fight whatever battles need to be fought, but I honestly cannot make heads-or-tails of what is happening. But like Rome has said, the door is open for you to return. I will pray that God gives you the necessary strength to walk through it.
Good point. I pray that the hearts of the rock-solid conservatives be softened and that they return to Christ's Church.
And yes, I also pray that Rome be much more faithful to the truth than it has been lately.
May they be one.
Just a note - the language in "Quo Primum" was usual for pontifical documents of that time. It was never meant to impose an obligation on Pius' successors - he knew very well that he could do no such thing.
Here we go again. Please cite exactly where the current Pope has departed from Catholic doctrine, in other words, where the Pope has reversed any defined dogma or any teaching of the ordinary and universal magisterium on the Deposit of Faith as contained in Scripture and Sacred Tradition.
On the OTHER thread pertinent to this affair, it was stated that some Diocesan tribunal HAD stepped in.
Evidently the fog and smoke is quite thick.
Well, they refuse to allow altar girls.
Yes, they did.
... from the day on which the translated texts must be used for celebrations in the vernacular, only the revised form of the Mass and [the breviary] will be allowed, even for those who continue to use Latin. (Instructione de Constitutione, AAS 63 (1971) 712715.)
Why anyone would even consider, let alone continue in negotiations - even unto this day - to be in communion with the organization of the antichrist is beyond me.
By the confusion in their teaching and their practice in treating the apostate church of 'vatican ii' as the true Church,the SSPX has set itself, its followers, and the traditional Catholic resistance in general up to be delivered over to the false shephers of the apostate church, and their souls to be devoured.
This situation in France has sadly happened many times in the past, and will continue to happen, rendering asunder the true Roman Catholic Church that remains, until the SSPX leadership relinquishes its pride and ambition, and stands for Christ, and truth, and in support of those rare statements in the past when they had at least courage to consider them.
Excerpt from a speech given by Archbishop Lefebvre to two seminaries on March 30 and April 18, 1986, before the first abomination at Assisi by 'john paul ii':
"Now I don't know if the time has come to say that the Pope is a heretic; I don't know if it is the time to say that. You know, for some time many people, the sedevacantists, have been saying "there is no more Pope," but I think that for me it was not yet the time to say that, because it was not sure, it was not evident, it was very difficult to say that the Pope is a heretic, the Pope is apostate. But I recognize that slowly, very slowly, by the deeds and acts of the Pope himself we begin to be very anxious. I am not inventing this situation; I do not want it. I would gladly give my life to bring it to an end, but this is the situation we face, unfolding before our eyes like a film in the cinema. I don't think it has ever happened in the history of the Church, the man seated in the chair of Peter partaking in the worship of false gods."
"What conclusion must we draw in a few months if we are confronted by these repeated acts of partaking in false worship? I don't know. I wonder. But I think the Pope can do nothing worse than call together a meeting of all religions, when we know there is only one true religion and all other religions belong to the devil. So perhaps after this famous meeting of Assisi, perhaps we must say that the Pope is a heretic, is apostate. Now I don't wish yet to say it formally and solemnly, but it seems at first sight that it is impossible for a Pope to be publicly and formally heretical. Our Lord has promised to be with him, to keep his faith, to keep him in the Faith - how can he at the same time be a public heretic and virtually apostatise? So it is possible we may be obliged to believe this pope is not pope."
Well, it took 52 posts to get to them, but the sede vacantists are on board.
One silly hothead frog priest throws his toys out of the cot because he didn't get his way and suddenly neo-Catholics are rushing to proclaim that the entire SSPX is in "total chaos".
This seems to be a case of making a mountain out of a mole-hill. Now, if you want to see some real cause for chaos...
Your use of the term "neo-Catholics" demonstrates that you are a schismatic.
Your use of the term schismatic demonstrates that you are a neo-Catholic
The SSPX has refused obedience to legitimate authority as regards lawful commands and without necessity. The specific form of the liturgy is something within the power of the Pope to regulate, so long as the essence of the Eucharistic sacrifice is maintained, and therefore there is no necessity to disobey, and certainly not now that indult Tridentine masses are allowed.
"The specific form of the liturgy is something within the power of the Pope to regulate, so long as the essence of the Eucharistic sacrifice is maintained"
Here's a book by an eminent doctor of sacred theology (Rev Fr. Trinchard) that may interest you...
Whether invalid or not, the short answer to the novus ordo is NO!
Trichard, a priest who celebrated the Novus Ordo his entire priesthood now, in his dotage, decides that it's invalid.
Oh, and Phil, he's not a "doctor." He has a licentiate, which means he couldn't quite cut the cut the doctoral mustard.