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Catholic chaplains affected by French veil law
Reuters ^ | Thu 7 October, 2004 15:51 | Reuters

Posted on 10/08/2004 7:28:14 PM PDT by Land of the Irish

TOULON, France (Reuters) - The French law meant to banish Muslim headscarves from state schools is finding unexpected targets in southern France, where some principals have begun turning away Roman Catholic chaplains.

Five priests have been barred from state schools in the Var region despite the fact that French law has long allowed them entry to meet Catholic pupils there, according to the local diocesan spokesman Father Charles Mallard.

One school in this Mediterranean port city barred a priest this week because he was wearing a cassock, the traditional black robe he wore last year without problem before the new law barring conspicuous religious symbols came into force.

"These decisions were taken unilaterally without consulting the chaplains," local Bishop Dominique Rey said.

Determined to stand firm against Muslim fundamentalism without singling out Islam, French lawmakers this year banned "conspicuous religious symbols" and indicated this meant the headscarf, the Jewish skullcap and large Christian crosses.

This has created problems for Sikh pupils, who now cannot wear their turbans although they are not a religious symbol, and now raised questions about the loophole in France's strict secularism that allows chaplains to work at state schools.

The teachers' union SNES supported the schools' stand, saying in a statement: "The law on secularism applies not only to pupils but to teachers and other personnel who are part of the teaching or logistical staff of a school."

Teachers have long been barred from wearing any religious or political symbols so as not to influence their pupils.

"How can you explain to pupils that the law is the same for everyone if we make an exception like that?" asked Jean-Pierre Andrau, a history teacher at the lycee where Father Antoine Galland was turned away.

Wearing an open-necked black shirt, diocesan spokesman Mallard said Galland wore a cassock because he belonged to a traditionalist Catholic community. Most chaplains wear black suits with Roman collars or secular clothes.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic
KEYWORDS: cassock; catholic; chaplain; falseecumenism; france; priest; secularism
"We're not rigid about this," he said. "Religious garb is not essential for a Catholic priest's mission."

Saint Louis XIV, King of France, pray for us.

1 posted on 10/08/2004 7:28:16 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Akron Al; Alberta's Child; Andrew65; AniGrrl; Antoninus; apologia_pro_vita_sua; attagirl; ...

Ping


2 posted on 10/08/2004 7:29:48 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
Saint Louis XIV, King of France, pray for us.

Don't you mean St. Louis IX? Louis XIV hasn't been canonized yet. Perhaps Pope Pius XXIII will do so.

3 posted on 10/08/2004 7:40:59 PM PDT by royalcello
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To: Land of the Irish

Just a taste of what's to come here.

Poor France, once the fair-haired child of Christendom.

I think it's great, however, that a nation so worred about losing its "European/French" heritage managed to to swing wide enough at the Muslims it's slamming and deliver a blow to its own head.

Something at least "fair" about that.


4 posted on 10/08/2004 7:45:03 PM PDT by Askel5 ( Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. )
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To: royalcello
Don't you mean St. Louis IX? Louis XIV hasn't been canonized yet.

Yes, I did. Thanks for the correction.

5 posted on 10/08/2004 7:52:27 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Askel5; Land of the Irish

Everything that's happening now is the logical and inevitable result of the evil Revolution of 1789. The French Republic is built on the murder of King Louis XVI, Queen Marie Antoinette, and countless others; it does not deserve to survive. If it were not for the fact that the Muslim invasion also hurts France's traditionalist minority, I would say that the coming demographic catastrophe serves the French right.


6 posted on 10/08/2004 7:53:09 PM PDT by royalcello
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To: royalcello
If it were not for the fact that the Muslim invasion also hurts France's traditionalist minority, I would say that the coming demographic catastrophe serves the French right.

Agreed ... save for it's being a demographic catastrophe, I guess. I have a hard time thinking in those terms. Folks who don't reproduce, don't reproduce. It's just that simple. And the meek shall inherit the earth.

7 posted on 10/08/2004 8:03:24 PM PDT by Askel5 ( Cooperatio voluntaria ad suicidium est legi morali contraria. )
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To: Land of the Irish

Was this a SSPX or FSSP priest?


8 posted on 10/08/2004 8:09:29 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: royalcello; Askel5

France, Spain, Italy, all once bastions of Catholic monarchies, have fallen.


9 posted on 10/08/2004 8:26:56 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Land of the Irish
Saint Louis XIV, King of France, pray for us.


Moi? Zis ees a vedy unusual request, but seence you ask so nicely... okay.

10 posted on 10/08/2004 8:29:32 PM PDT by AAABEST (Lord have mercy on us)
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To: Land of the Irish

The black of the cassock is a sign of mourning for the sins of the world that necessitated the death of the Son of God. All the more proper a garment considering this God-denying sin of evangelical secularism.


11 posted on 10/08/2004 8:30:18 PM PDT by lightman
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To: AAABEST

ROTFL


12 posted on 10/08/2004 8:35:59 PM PDT by Fifthmark
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Was this a SSPX or FSSP priest?

I don't know. I suspect he's FSSP.

13 posted on 10/08/2004 8:36:54 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: royalcello
" The French Republic is built on the murder of King Louis XVI, Queen Marie Antoinette, and countless others; it does not deserve to survive."

True, the King and Queen were the ligitimate rulers of France, and France has never been the same since their murders and the subsequent masonic influence that followed. Nice post, thank you.

14 posted on 10/08/2004 9:54:18 PM PDT by TheCrusader ("the frenzy of the Mohammedans has devastated the churches of God" Pope Urban II (c 1097 a.d.))
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To: Land of the Irish
"France, Spain, Italy, all once bastions of Catholic monarchies, have fallen."

And not a one of them has ever returned to their former power and glory. All three are shells of their past glories.

15 posted on 10/08/2004 9:57:37 PM PDT by TheCrusader ("the frenzy of the Mohammedans has devastated the churches of God" Pope Urban II (c 1097 a.d.))
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To: lightman
The black of the cassock is a sign of mourning for the sins of the world that necessitated the death of the Son of God. All the more proper a garment considering this God-denying sin of evangelical secularism.

Thank-you for reminding me of that. It makes me appreciate my cassock wearing priests even more. If only I had such humility as these holy men.

16 posted on 10/08/2004 10:15:57 PM PDT by Land of the Irish
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Do you actually think SSPX or FSSP priests have a monopoly on the wearing of cassocks?

If so, you need to get out more ... you're suffering from tunnel-vision.

17 posted on 10/08/2004 11:33:26 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: ArrogantBustard

My goodness, another pleasant remark from the Novus Ordo crowd. I can't say I'm surprised.

Have diocesan priests begun wearing cassocks again? Yes, I realize there are a couple of other traditional orders in Europe. SSPX and FSSP tend to be the largest, at least in France.


18 posted on 10/08/2004 11:47:48 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Land of the Irish
". . . unexpected targets . . . "

Not really all that unexpected, when you consider French history since the Revolution. Prior to, and during, the First World War, the government was so anticlerical that competent officers were denied promotions if it was discovered that they were "too Catholic."

Prior to the Second World War, the various rightist groups in France, such as the Camelots du Roi and Action Francaise were very pro-Catholic, but the victory of the Anglo-Americans (and French Communists) in 1945 ensured that the Catholics would be tarred with "collaboration" and excluded from the political and cultural scene.

It is easy to read far too much into the recent "outburst" of anti-Mohammedan legislation. It's not really nationalist, and it's certainly not pro-Christian. Basically, it is just the devotedly anti-God government going after anything even remotely resembling religion. Last century, it was the Catholics. Now that they have been utterly and completely routed, it's the Mohammedans' turn in the barrel. Damage to Catholics is purely collateral, and -- I am sure -- not unwelcome to those in power; the secularists are just happy to be able to kill two birds with one stone, and take a last belated swipe at l'infame.

19 posted on 10/09/2004 3:25:11 AM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
From a similar story in a French newspaper:
l'abbé Antoine Galland, membre d'une congrégation conservatrice, la communauté Saint Martin, implantée dans le Var depuis une vingtaine d'années
I take it this means that he is a member of the conservative "Community of St. Martin" which has been in the province of Var for about 20 years.

I'm not familiar with this group, and a quick google search did not turn up any information.

20 posted on 10/09/2004 12:01:49 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen

"Prior to the Second World War, the various rightist groups in France, such as the Camelots du Roi and Action Francaise were very pro-Catholic, but the victory of the Anglo-Americans (and French Communists) in 1945 ensured that the Catholics would be tarred with "collaboration" and excluded from the political and cultural scene."


Indeed, Catholics everywhere are on the defensive and being a progressive or neo-Catholic is no refuge from the march of modern secularism. Their tenuous attachment to the Church will be finally severed when liberalism totally engulfs them and their new catechism will then indelibly proclaim: Liberty, Egality, Fraternity! The intellectual establishment of France will react against anything that threatens their Revolution!


21 posted on 10/09/2004 12:25:02 PM PDT by Wessex
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To: Wessex
when liberalism totally engulfs them and their new catechism will then indelibly proclaim: Liberty, Egality, Fraternity!

Didn't the pope give a speech in just the past couple weeks extolling precisely these 3 values of the French Revolution? Looks like the "new catechims" is already here.

22 posted on 10/09/2004 1:21:29 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Maximilian

Is this it?

http://romanliturgy.net/ad_altare_dei.html


23 posted on 10/09/2004 1:35:09 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: royalcello
"The French Republic is built on the murder of King Louis XVI, Queen Marie Antoinette . . ."

Here's a perhaps bizarre thought that occurred to me recently after viewing The Messenger: Supposedly there was a prophecy that France would be saved by a "maid from Lorraine." In one instance, that maid proved to by St. Jeanne d'Arc, ultimately murdered by the English.

But what if a second maid of Lorraine had been pre-emptively murdered? Recall, the male line of the house of Habsburg had died out with the death of Kaiser Karl VI. After Archduchess Maria Theresia married Prince Francis of Lothringia, the line is more properly called Habsburg-Lorraine.

The evil perpetrated by the French revolutionaries may have been far more than merely political and cultural.

24 posted on 10/09/2004 2:45:48 PM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

I looked at the link you provided. This group definitely represents the Good Guys, and is explicitly opposed to the spirit of the French Revolution and, thus, the founding principles of the current secularist republic. The symbol of the Sacred Heart that the group uses is the exact same as used by the Vendée counter-revolutionaries.

No wonder the government hates them.


25 posted on 10/09/2004 2:51:59 PM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
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To: Goetz_von_Berlichingen

Is it the same group? I don't speak French so I couldn't determine whether they are or not. Perhaps they are a splinter group off another order?


26 posted on 10/09/2004 3:47:26 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah

Scroll down the page. The site has English pages. Click on the "Independent Clergy" link. It would seem that this group is....*cough*......"independent" of Rome.


27 posted on 10/09/2004 7:30:47 PM PDT by marshmallow
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To: marshmallow

Yes I saw that.


28 posted on 10/09/2004 7:37:45 PM PDT by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah
Is this it?

Well great find in any case. Looks like there will be some interesting reading there. I don't know enough French geography to say if Toulon would be in the same region as Le Vendee.

29 posted on 10/09/2004 7:39:10 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: ArrogantBustard
Do you actually think SSPX or FSSP priests have a monopoly on the wearing of cassocks?

In the 7 years I lived in the Arlington and Richmond diocese, I never once saw a priest who wore a cassock that wasn't an SSPX or FSSP priest.

30 posted on 10/09/2004 8:08:50 PM PDT by Grey Ghost II
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To: Grey Ghost II
In the six years I have lived in the Arlington Diocese, I have seen at least three diocesan priests who regularly wear cassocks.

Not very many, certainly far from the majority, but more than zero.

Just a data point that those who spend all their time in SSPX-land will miss. The 'traditionalist" press is highly unlikely to mention it.

You're welcome.

31 posted on 10/09/2004 8:25:27 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard
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To: ArrogantBustard
CM Almy will ship cassocks--Anglican or Roman style--for free..

They can't be moving many these days.

32 posted on 10/09/2004 8:38:24 PM PDT by sinkspur ("I exist in the fevered swamps of traditional arcana. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: sinkspur

"They can't be moving many these days."

Would you like one for Christmas?


33 posted on 10/10/2004 9:57:46 AM PDT by Wessex
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To: Wessex

No. Our diocese encourages deacons to wear ties, rather than Roman collars, to keep the offices of diaconate and priesthood distinct.


34 posted on 10/10/2004 10:49:32 AM PDT by sinkspur ("I exist in the fevered swamps of traditional arcana. "--Cardinal Fanfani)
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To: royalcello
Re: "Louis XIV hasn't been canonized yet"

Oh for Heaven's sake let us hope he never makes saint. He was not the best example of a Christian. He also was responsible for the failure to consecrate France to the Sacred Heart of Jesus. The result was the French Revolution.
35 posted on 10/10/2004 1:07:41 PM PDT by Mark in the Old South
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To: Mark in the Old South

I was trying to be humorous. I do not expect Louis XIV to be canonized.


36 posted on 10/10/2004 1:13:45 PM PDT by royalcello
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To: Land of the Irish; TheCrusader
France, Spain, Italy, all once bastions of Catholic monarchies, have fallen.

At least Spain still has a monarchy, thanks to Franco. And I suspect there will be a backlash against Zapatero. He is going too far with his anti-Catholic agenda even for some of those who voted for him.

37 posted on 10/13/2004 10:56:31 AM PDT by royalcello
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