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Don't be afraid of CHRISTmas
Kentucky Kernel ^ | 11/30/04 | Stephen Burnett

Posted on 11/30/2004 9:44:13 AM PST by DaveLoneRanger

"I'm not going to rant about how Christmas has become over-commercialized. More annoying to me is when people, particularly marketing people, blather on about the "Holiday Season."

I strangely feel compelled to delve into a short logical argument.

First, let's figure out what holidays means. Back in mid-October when they were talking about holidays, I suppose that could have meant Halloween, Thanksgiving, Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa and New Year's Eve.

But now after Halloween and Thanksgiving, we're still talking about the holidays. That would include just Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa and New Year's Eve.

Not too many Hanukkah celebrants will be getting hams just in time for their holiday, or buying holiday lights or putting up a holiday tree. And I doubt they'll be listening to "holiday music" on the radio stations, where Hanukkah hymns are in short supply (count them: one, Adam Sandler's "Hanukkah Song").

A little common sense here, America's retail outlets and marketers? Americans only go out and cut down and/or assemble their "holiday trees" for one holiday - the one that falls on Dec. 25 this year. And we only use "holiday lights" and "holiday ornaments" for one of the holidays too, the Dec. 25 one. (Psst! Christmas! Just say it!)

Most Americans celebrate Christmas - Christians, churchians and even some normally-Christophobic atheists. It's already secular enough.

So wouldn't it be nice to hear "Merry Christmas" a little bit more often?

Or, if that's asking too much, how about at least restoring the adjective "Christmas," as in "Christmas lights" or "Christmas tree"; and on a CD obviously consisting of only Christmas songs, I'd like to see the label "Christmas Favorites" once again!

It's not seasonal discrimination, only common sense, something in short supply just about everywhere this time of the Winter Solstice. Ask for some in your stocking, America's marketers - it couldn't hurt."


TOPICS: Activism; Current Events; History; Moral Issues
KEYWORDS: christmas; halloween; hanukkah; kwanzaa; newyearseve; thanksgiving
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To: ArrogantBustard

"It IS THE Sacrifice, which as I have shown to be eternal, made present in this time, and in this place."

You have shown no such thing.


41 posted on 11/30/2004 2:27:46 PM PST by grassboots.org (Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then he sat down on the right hand of God)
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To: ArrogantBustard; grassboots.org
From John A. Hardon

The Mass a True Sacrifice. Since the first century of her existence, the Church has considered the Mass a sacrifice. The earliest manual of the liturgy (before 90 A.D.) has this directive for the attendance of Sunday Mass.

"On the Lord's own day, assemble in common to break bread and offer thanks. But first confess your sins so that your sacrifice may be pure. However, no one quarreling with his brother may join your meeting until they are reconciled; your sacrifice must not be defiled (Teaching of the Twelve Apostles, 14)."

Why is the Mass a true sacrifice? Because in the Mass the same Jesus Christ who offered Himself on Calvary now offers Himself on the altar. The Priest is the same, the Victim is the same, and the end or purpose is the same.

The Priest is the same Jesus Christ whose sacred person the ordained priest represents and in whose Name he offers the Eucharistic Sacrifice.

The Victim is the same, namely the Savior in His human nature, with His true Body and Blood, and His human free will. Only the manner of offering is different. On the Cross, the sacrifice was bloody; in the Mass it is unbloody because Christ is now in His glorified state. But the heart of sacrifice is the voluntary, total offering of oneself to God. Christ makes this voluntary offering in every Mass, signified by the separate consecration of the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of the Redeemer.

The end or purpose is the same, namely to give glory to God, to thank Him, to obtain His mercy, and to ask Him for our needs. But, as we have seen, whereas on Calvary Christ merited our salvation, it is mainly through the Mass that He now dispenses the riches of His saving grace.

42 posted on 11/30/2004 2:27:54 PM PST by Pyro7480 (Sub tuum praesidium confugimus, sancta Dei Genitrix.... sed a periculis cunctis libera nos semper...)
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To: grassboots.org
The Lamb ... In Heaven. Remember?

If you choose to personally interpret the Apocalypse differently from the Church, that's your problem.

43 posted on 11/30/2004 2:30:14 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Pyro7480

Thank you.


44 posted on 11/30/2004 2:32:50 PM PST by ArrogantBustard
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To: Pyro7480

"on the altar"

The only altars in scripture are the old Testament altars of sacrifice and Calvary, not a table in a building.

He is not citing Scripture, nor are you. The Scriptures say the sacrifice was once for all and that there is no longer any sacrifice offered for sin.

Was the sacrifice on the cross insufficient to save?
Did Christ pay for all your sins already?


45 posted on 11/30/2004 2:50:21 PM PST by grassboots.org (Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then he sat down on the right hand of God)
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

"shew the death of the Lord"

That is of course, what one does when he participates in the Lord's supper. He is displaying what Christ in his body did on the cross.

Are you suggesting that you Christ is dying again?

Was not his death on the cross sufficient to deliver you from your sins?


47 posted on 11/30/2004 3:29:44 PM PST by grassboots.org (Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then he sat down on the right hand of God)
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Comment #48 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

It is our sins that we need to be saved from. If it is our sin that keeps us from being saved, no one could be saved.


49 posted on 11/30/2004 4:46:58 PM PST by grassboots.org (Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then he sat down on the right hand of God)
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: sandyeggo

What is a mortal sin?
Is that a sin that Christ payed the price for?

Where will you go if not Heaven?


51 posted on 11/30/2004 6:53:15 PM PST by grassboots.org (Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then he sat down on the right hand of God)
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Comment #52 Removed by Moderator

To: DaveLoneRanger
I make sure I say Merry Christmas, unless I know the person is Jewish. I don't care how unPC it is. I am sick of that.
53 posted on 11/30/2004 8:09:29 PM PST by ladyinred (Congratulations President Bush! Four more years!)
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To: sandyeggo

All sins are deserving of Hell.

Where does the Bible teach that Christians go to purgatory?

We are made pure in the blood of Christ. You don't have to pay for your sins - Christ did that on the cross.


54 posted on 11/30/2004 8:58:10 PM PST by grassboots.org (Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then he sat down on the right hand of God)
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Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: grassboots.org
Hi grassboots,

You quote both Hebrews and Revelation and talked about past tense. If we look at the Greek tenses and not just the English translated tenses, it more clearly shows that what you say is scriptural. Greek has some more tenses than English. It doesn't really have just one past tense. There is the aorist tense, which is most like our past tense - it indicates that a simple action happened, usually in the past. The English equivalent would be "he did it". But it should be distinguished from the imperfect tense which signifies continous action. The English equivalent would be "he was doing it". And then there is the Greek perfect tense which represents an action that was completed in the past but has continual (eternal) results. It has no good English equivalent. There is also the present tense which indicates ongoing present action. The equivalent would be "he is doing it". Below are the passages you cited showing whether they represent are the aorist or the perfect tenses.

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. 15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, 16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; 17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Looking at the Greek tenses it is easily seen that if the sacrifice were meant to be eternally made, the Lamb eternally slain, then the present tense would have been used. But instead, it is the perfect tense which is very explicit - the action was completed once and for all time, but the RESULTS are eternal. So, yes, the results of the perfect sacrifice of God on the cross are eternal, but the sacrifice itself was once and for all. This same perfect tense is also found in 1 John 4:2 where it says that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. A once and for all deal - with results that last forever.

56 posted on 12/01/2004 10:18:23 AM PST by lupie
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To: sandyeggo

Of course not. As a Christian, I may still undergo discipline from my Father for my sins, but that is not his wrath. Christ paid the price for my sins, I cannot do it. Christ underwent "holy fire" as it were, to purge me from my sins (he had none of his own). Trust Christ, not your own works or purgatory.


57 posted on 12/01/2004 12:05:57 PM PST by grassboots.org (Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then he sat down on the right hand of God)
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To: lupie

Thank you. I wish there was a Bible (printed or Online) that was color-coded by tense as you have done. (Now you have something to do with all your spare time). I've seen them for every other reason, usually done quite artifically (topic, Words of Christ, etc.)


58 posted on 12/01/2004 12:10:20 PM PST by grassboots.org (Christ offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, then he sat down on the right hand of God)
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Comment #59 Removed by Moderator

To: DaveLoneRanger
DaveLoneRanger,

Jim Robinson's Master List Of Articles To Be Excerpted

GOOD ARTICLE! -- posting it in full for all to see -- present and future....MERRY CHRISTMAS!

ConservativeStLouisGuy
______________________

Don't be afraid of 'Christmas'- Stephen Burnett

This Christmas, I'd like more common-sense 'holiday' marketing.

That's right, the holiday season is here at last, with its interesting song lyrics, and over Thanksgiving break my family and I did something I had thought unfeasible: We've almost thoroughly Christmas-tized the house, inside and out, and it's not even December yet.

All that's left is putting up a few strands of lights on the eaves outside and in the garage windows.

Then we've got to do something about the infestation of disgusting spiders crawling up over the lace skirts of the serene, lit-up angel atop the living room tree.

For now, the aggressive arachnids will come off quite nicely for a one-way trip down a rubber tube to spend the holidays inside a Hoover dirt bag.

Now here comes the part where I complain about over usage of the words holiday and the holidays.

Yes, right along with tree trimming and listening for reindeer hooves, it's part of the season to remind people of things like: We're really celebrating Jesus' birthday. "He's the real reason for the season!" This is almost a cliché, of course, but it's true.

I'm not going to rant about how Christmas has become over-commercialized. More annoying to me is when people, particularly marketing people, blather on about the "Holiday Season," like this:

"Get your holiday shopping done now at ..."

"Looking for the perfect holiday gift?"

"Now on Mix 94.5, 24-hour holiday music!"

"Holiday trees / holiday lights / holiday ornaments, available at..."

"Get your honey-baked ham just in time for the holidays!"

Again I strangely feel compelled to delve into a short logical argument.

First, let's figure out what holidays means. Back in mid-October when they were talking about holidays, I suppose that could have meant Halloween, Thanksgiving, Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa and New Year's Eve.

But now after Halloween and Thanksgiving, we're still talking about the holidays. That would include just Hanukkah, Christmas, Kwanzaa and New Year's Eve.

Now, re-read that list of clichés for a moment. How many of those apply to all three holidays?

Only cliches one and two apply, actually. During each of the eight days of the Jewish Hanukkah, its celebrants exchange gifts; and for the African Kwanzaa, participants give things mostly to children.

So marketing "holiday gifts" could work for all of these holidays but nothing else. Not too many Hanukkah celebrants will be getting hams just in time for their holiday, or buying holiday lights or putting up a holiday tree. And I doubt they'll be listening to "holiday music" on the radio stations, where Hanukkah hymns are in short supply (count them: one, Adam Sandler's "Hanukkah Song").

A little common sense here, America's retail outlets and marketers? Americans only go out and cut down and/or assemble their "holiday trees" for one holiday - the one that falls on Dec. 25 this year. And we only use "holiday lights" and "holiday ornaments" for one of the holidays too, the Dec. 25 one. (Psst! Christmas! Just say it!)

Not to mention Santa Claus, who, the marketers tell us nonsensically and frequently, also arrives just in time for "the holidays."

Ha ha! America's marketers, please, respect your friendly neighborhood Hanukkah and Kwanzaa celebrants, and don't do something religiously ridiculous like implying Santa is a part of their holidays!

If Santa has anything to do with any of these holidays, it's Christmas.

The retail cliche-chatterers need some common sense along with their understandable desires for seasonal inclusiveness.

People who celebrate Hanukkah or Kwanzaa don't put up holiday trees or lights or tree ornaments; and while they do exchange gifts, their holidays don't involve hanging stockings by the chimney or almost all of the holiday songs, whether spiritual or secular.

Do we need some education about what these less-commonly-known holidays do encompass? Might as well. Let's go:

- Hanukkah - a Jewish celebration based on the Maccabees' successful revolt against the Syrian despot Antiochus, during the period between the Old and New Testaments of the Bible.

The eight-day celebration is based on the legendary temple menorah that had barely any oil, but burned for eight days and nights.

- Kwanzaa - an African symbol-intensive occasion whose "symbols, values and practice" should not be mixed "with any other culture," according to the Official Kwanzaa Web site. That kind of makes marketing it difficult and disrespectful anyway.

However, most Americans celebrate Christmas - Christians, churchians and even some normally-Christophobic atheists. It's already secular enough.

So wouldn't it be nice to hear "Merry Christmas" a little bit more often?

Or, if that's asking too much, how about at least restoring the adjective "Christmas," as in "Christmas lights" or "Christmas tree"; and on a CD obviously consisting of only Christmas songs, I'd like to see the label "Christmas Favorites" once again!

It's not seasonal discrimination, only common sense, something in short supply just about everywhere this time of the Winter Solstice. Ask for some in your stocking, America's marketers - it couldn't hurt.
60 posted on 12/01/2004 6:01:35 PM PST by ConservativeStLouisGuy (11th FReeper Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Unnecessarily Excerpt)
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