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Question to Christians From a Jewish Friend
December 9, 2004 | Michael Katz

Posted on 12/08/2004 11:08:38 PM PST by Mike10542

Hey fellow freepers, having been swept up in the battle of conservatives first liberals and believers in God vs. non-beleivers I clearly have chosen the right side here (hence me writing on Free Republic). The alignment of Jews like myself and many fellow Christians is one that I feel is very necesary to win the war against evil and have peace in our time. Although I choose to ignore all the leftists and others who try to break up this loving partnership by saying "They are only on your side becuase they want the Jews in control of Jerusalem so Christ returns," I am looking to explore what the Bible really teaches about the Jewish fate from the Christian perspective. It is hard to find what the majority opinion is because the internet is, well, the internet. What I have made out so far is that during rapture I beleive 2/3's of Jews are killed, but one third survive. So my questions are:

1) What do the 2/3's of Jews die from (war, just happens????)

2) What happens to the remaning 1/3 of Jews after they survive?

3) Do any of this remaining 1/3 of Jews make it past the final judgement of God (some interpertations say no, others say the remaining Jews are allowed to pass once accepting God and I think Christ)

I truly beleive in my Jewish fate as I have been raised Jewish, but my mom is Christian. So each religion I respect and believe are good. Ultimately, I hope us Jews and Christians both make it together to the promised land (and only the Muslims are sent to hell!)

Thanks for all your answers. Also, feel free to direct me to anywhere where I can learn more about this subject.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: endtimes; prophecy; rapture
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1 posted on 12/08/2004 11:08:38 PM PST by Mike10542
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To: Mike10542

ping to read later


2 posted on 12/08/2004 11:10:49 PM PST by atari
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To: Mike10542

"Paging Hal Lindsey, Hal Lindsey, paging Hal Lindsey..."


3 posted on 12/08/2004 11:12:22 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (You will NEVER convince me that Muhammadanism isn't a death cult that must end. Save your time...)
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To: Mike10542

There is a lot of interpretation of these things, and as there are 2 billion nominal Christians, there are at least as many opinions on that. If I lived in Israel I would be somewhat fatalistic about the ultimate outcome judging from history in the region and first Saddam and now Iran saying they intend to burn the place. Beyond that, who knows?


4 posted on 12/08/2004 11:14:13 PM PST by RightWhale (Destroy the dark; restore the light)
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To: Mike10542
The rapture idea that stems from Evangelical Christianity will not happen, so don't concern yourself with it. If you have Jewish ancestry you should read about the Rambam's Thirteen Articles of Faith. These thirteen articles of faith are the essential components of Judaism.
5 posted on 12/08/2004 11:15:39 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: ApesForEvolution

Mr.Lindsey sells a lot of books, and makes a good deal of money. Doesn't mean he is right however.


6 posted on 12/08/2004 11:16:55 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: Mike10542

Call it a hunch, but i don't think God is going to break out a calculator and DAMN the third who don't divide evenly... just a hunch...


7 posted on 12/08/2004 11:17:08 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: Bandaneira

How do you know the Rapture won't happen?


8 posted on 12/08/2004 11:18:25 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: Bandaneira

I'm sure you're right though...


9 posted on 12/08/2004 11:18:38 PM PST by ApesForEvolution (You will NEVER convince me that Muhammadanism isn't a death cult that must end. Save your time...)
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To: Mike10542
Depends on which christian you talk to. There are many interpretations of the prophecies. But I prefer to believe G-d rather than individual interpretations.

Isaiah 45:17 (KJV)
But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Isaiah 45:25 (KJV)
In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

10 posted on 12/08/2004 11:22:11 PM PST by mfulstone
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To: Mike10542

ping for later


11 posted on 12/08/2004 11:22:23 PM PST by Gal.5:1
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To: Gal.5:1

I am just wondering you know, I want to know what the literal interpertation is of the bible, I non-partisan point of view of what the Bible says about Jews fate (if there is such a thing).


12 posted on 12/08/2004 11:25:58 PM PST by Mike10542
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To: k2blader
To explain how and why I know would take me a few hours . Writng down my reasons would take too way long here. You'll have to take my word for it ! If you would like a side wager that the "Rapture" definately wont happen in the next eight months I'm willin gto take it.

P.S. Do you want millions to be killed before your carpenter returns ?
13 posted on 12/08/2004 11:26:10 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: Mike10542

This is the best I could find in a moment's notice: http://www.thetrumpet.com/geo/na/docs/issues/200412/37.asp


14 posted on 12/08/2004 11:27:25 PM PST by Dec31,1999 (www.protestwarrior.com)
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To: k2blader; Bandaneira
How do you know the rapture won't happen?

Exactly!! I just had a rupture in my bathroom and it was no fun!

15 posted on 12/08/2004 11:28:24 PM PST by aquila48
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: Mike10542
(and only the Muslims are sent to hell!)

I know of no true Christian that wishes hell for anyone.

17 posted on 12/08/2004 11:30:10 PM PST by MonitorMaid (Merry CHRISTmas!)
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To: Mike10542

Ayy good websites about what the bible really says about Jews fate? I want it from a new testament perspective, I guess a lot of the bible is left to interpratation, so it might be hard to get a good answer.


18 posted on 12/08/2004 11:30:19 PM PST by Mike10542
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To: Mike10542

What do you wish for the Jewish people and all of humankind ?


19 posted on 12/08/2004 11:31:30 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: Bandaneira

I was just wondering if you have some sort of insider knowledge.

My opinion is it might happen, it might not. Who knows for sure except God?

And what kind of disingenuous question is that? Seems along the lines of "So when did you stop beating your wife?".


20 posted on 12/08/2004 11:31:57 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

To: MonitorMaid

Sorry, I was instilling a joke in a question that I am actually asking serisously. I only wish hell to the truly evil people, but let God be the judge of that


22 posted on 12/08/2004 11:33:22 PM PST by Mike10542
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To: Mike10542

I can't remember once talking about "the Jews' fate" in church or with fellow believers. Salvation is not about being Jewish or not being Jewish.


23 posted on 12/08/2004 11:34:24 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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Comment #24 Removed by Moderator

To: k2blader
It's not disingenuous. I've met evangelicals who actually hope for the "War of I'm-a-Geddin'" and more deaths so that their wonder boy will return. Pretty sick belief system I reckon.

Regarding "Insider Knowledge", imagine the universe is like a huge jigsaw puzzle. Some people have more of the pieces than others, so thus can see the bigger picture. Of course, only the big guy has all of the pieces. I believe that all of the pieces are falling into place right now, and I wish no more violence for anyone.
25 posted on 12/08/2004 11:36:56 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: MonitorMaid
I know of no true Christian that wishes hell for anyone.

Indeed, true Christians ought to pray for everyone, that they may see the light. But true believers in freedom will not prohibit the free exercise of any religion.

26 posted on 12/08/2004 11:37:40 PM PST by Chemist_Geek ("Drill, R&D, and conserve" should be our watchwords! Energy independence for America!)
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To: Bandaneira

I wish that all the good people in the world go to heaven, that is basically what I want. But I want to examine the differences between Jews and Christians, because from a family of both faiths, I really feel that strong about my committment to the Judeo-Christian relationship. I want to learn more about Christianity and what they believe different than Jews (I was brought up Jewish), one thing which I know is what will happen to us when Christ comes back according to them.


27 posted on 12/08/2004 11:37:55 PM PST by Mike10542
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To: Bandaneira
P.S. Do you want millions to be killed before your carpenter returns ?

Could you expand on this comment please?

28 posted on 12/08/2004 11:38:28 PM PST by MonitorMaid (Merry CHRISTmas!)
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To: Mike10542

Mike, the Christian understanding amongst those who take the Bible seriously is that Christ will not return to the earth until Israel asks him to, with all that implies.


29 posted on 12/08/2004 11:39:23 PM PST by papertyger
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To: Mike10542

rapture aside, as far as the remnant goes (those jews not killed in the different judgements; the fact that they are jews not really mattering, seeing as how only 1/2 or 1/4 of the world is prophecied to die) its the same as the rest of humanity, accept christ or dont, there is no middle ground.those who do will enjoy eternity with the Lord, those who dont are separated and hurled into the pit.

thats just the basics i know of, correct me where im wrong


30 posted on 12/08/2004 11:39:44 PM PST by mickeyrig
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To: Mike10542

the Bible says nothing about the Jew vs. Christian hell... islam tells muslims to ask(imams) what god thinks, and imams tell them what to do... that is the root of corruption in islam, they behave like...


31 posted on 12/08/2004 11:40:36 PM PST by kinoxi
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To: Bandaneira

God is Holy and Just. He'll definitely sort it all out when the time comes.

Whatever the case, I know we all *deserve* death and hell. But only through His grace and mercy, some of us are spared.


32 posted on 12/08/2004 11:40:42 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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Comment #33 Removed by Moderator

To: Mike10542

Try levitt.com


34 posted on 12/08/2004 11:40:48 PM PST by loboinok (GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.)
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To: MonitorMaid

Follow the posts. Reading is a good thing to do.

Some evangelicals believe that a huge cataclysmic war must happen before their wonder boy will return. I'm sure you are aware of some of these doctrines.


35 posted on 12/08/2004 11:41:33 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: loboinok

Mike, try and leave it alone, rather than levitt.


36 posted on 12/08/2004 11:42:42 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: Mike10542
With a Christian mother, why don't you look into Jews for Jesus, the most important social development ever to come out of Haight-Ashbury. They might offer you an interesting perspective.
37 posted on 12/08/2004 11:43:00 PM PST by Fatalis
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To: Mike10542
I'd order the free literature by telephone, too, if I were you. I've been reading their free magazine for years and no one has predicted future world events based on Biblical prophesy more accurately then them, IMO. (Not that I've read any others', because I haven't.)

An excellent example is the Jan, 2000 edition of The Trumpet, if you can get it.

Another example is that I've known that Iran would be the head of the terrorist threat for four years ahead of time, just by reading this magazine! (Past gains cannot guarantee future results. ;)

It's something to check out, though, especially for the eternally curious.

38 posted on 12/08/2004 11:43:27 PM PST by Dec31,1999 (www.protestwarrior.com)
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To: k2blader
Wow, I don't think humankind deserves death and hell.

Do you have gratitude for your existence ? When was the last time you looked up at the stars on a clear night ?

39 posted on 12/08/2004 11:44:26 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: Fatalis

No, Mike. Don't look at Jews for Jesus. It is a waste of your time.


41 posted on 12/08/2004 11:45:20 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: Nathaniel Fischer

Traditional Jew.


42 posted on 12/08/2004 11:45:42 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: Mike10542
We (evangelicals) enjoy reading the books by Hal Lindsey and Tim LaFavre for their entertainment value but we really don't give much serious thought to what exactly is going to happen in what order at what time etc... It's not relevant to our living a Christian life.

Some of us even believe that we are not meant to understand or know the prophesies. We don't care about rebuilding the temple.

On the other hand. We believe every word in the Old Testament is true. We believe that the Jews are the chosen people of God and that God will bless nations that aid Israel. Christian children are raised on Old Testament stories. I didn't learn that I wasn't a Jew until I started to public school.

Jews have a legitimate reason to fear us evangelicals because we are commanded to take the teachings of Christ to all people, including Jews, but we could never even think of interfering in their religious practices or doing them any harm.

43 posted on 12/08/2004 11:47:30 PM PST by bayourod (Bush said. "Let's see if I can say it as plainly as I can: I am for the intelligence bill.")
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To: Bandaneira

That we have done nothing and can do nothing to redeem ourselves is fundamental to Christianity.

You may want to regularly attend an in-depth Bible study.


44 posted on 12/08/2004 11:48:01 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: Bandaneira

Oh, based on your posts I had assumed you were a Christian. Since you are not, let me extend my apologies for engaging you in a way I did not intend.


45 posted on 12/08/2004 11:50:46 PM PST by k2blader (It is neither compassionate nor conservative to support the expansion of socialism.)
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To: k2blader
I'm not a Christian. We are both the puppets and puppeteers of the universe. We can by our very actions redeem the universe, i.e. Counter-Balance the evil. We can change the course of human history. That is our divine role, even if many people have forgotten it.
46 posted on 12/08/2004 11:51:00 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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Comment #47 Removed by Moderator

To: Mike10542

I'm not religious, but I'm on Israel's side because our national interests coincide almost perfectly since 9\11. Also, if we're going to promote democracy in the Middle East, it makes sense to support the only democracy in the Middle East.


48 posted on 12/08/2004 11:52:47 PM PST by Oschisms
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To: k2blader

No worries mate. I assume you are a male. If not, mate is also a term of endearment for a female here in the Great Southern Land.

Spirited dialogue is good to progress things along.


49 posted on 12/08/2004 11:53:31 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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To: Nathaniel Fischer
One does not need an intermediary to connect to the higher force.
50 posted on 12/08/2004 11:54:40 PM PST by Bandaneira (The Third Temple/House for All Nations/World Peace Centre...Coming Soon...)
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