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Question to Christians From a Jewish Friend
December 9, 2004 | Michael Katz

Posted on 12/08/2004 11:08:38 PM PST by Mike10542

Hey fellow freepers, having been swept up in the battle of conservatives first liberals and believers in God vs. non-beleivers I clearly have chosen the right side here (hence me writing on Free Republic). The alignment of Jews like myself and many fellow Christians is one that I feel is very necesary to win the war against evil and have peace in our time. Although I choose to ignore all the leftists and others who try to break up this loving partnership by saying "They are only on your side becuase they want the Jews in control of Jerusalem so Christ returns," I am looking to explore what the Bible really teaches about the Jewish fate from the Christian perspective. It is hard to find what the majority opinion is because the internet is, well, the internet. What I have made out so far is that during rapture I beleive 2/3's of Jews are killed, but one third survive. So my questions are:

1) What do the 2/3's of Jews die from (war, just happens????)

2) What happens to the remaning 1/3 of Jews after they survive?

3) Do any of this remaining 1/3 of Jews make it past the final judgement of God (some interpertations say no, others say the remaining Jews are allowed to pass once accepting God and I think Christ)

I truly beleive in my Jewish fate as I have been raised Jewish, but my mom is Christian. So each religion I respect and believe are good. Ultimately, I hope us Jews and Christians both make it together to the promised land (and only the Muslims are sent to hell!)

Thanks for all your answers. Also, feel free to direct me to anywhere where I can learn more about this subject.


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: endtimes; prophecy; rapture
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To: trickyricky

Good night and perhaps you should follow your own advice. ;^)


121 posted on 12/09/2004 1:24:45 AM PST by nopardons
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To: papertyger
"ORTHODOX"? And just what,pray tell,do you mean by that?

My understanding of Christianity is quite good,actually and is devoid of tinfoil...which is why I stay off the Religion here. ;^)

122 posted on 12/09/2004 1:26:59 AM PST by nopardons
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To: Bandaneira
To explain how and why I know would take me a few hours . Writng down my reasons would take too way long here. You'll have to take my word for it !

Now that is truly one the lamest excuses there is. Nice try but sorry dude but that don't cut it. If you can't back it up it don't mean nothing. We got plenty of time and plenty of bandwidth. So lay it out there. If you are really in the know why keep it a secret?

123 posted on 12/09/2004 1:28:34 AM PST by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: ROTB

"Notice how low France is going..."

lol


124 posted on 12/09/2004 1:30:00 AM PST by Anti-Christ is Hillary (John Kerry - Flip Flop shock and awe)
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To: backhoe

>Jews are God's people, and so are Christians. At the end of
>time, I think ( and hope ) He will slap you on the back, >and say "well done." I don't think minor theological
>difference matter much to a being so vastly higher than
>ourselves.

This is what the New Testament says on this subject ...

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:6


125 posted on 12/09/2004 1:30:48 AM PST by ROTB
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To: Mike10542; MonitorMaid
I only wish hell to the truly evil people

Real Christians don't think like that. This is how we pray for our enemies:

Bless my enemies, O Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them.

Enemies have driven me into your embrace more than friends have. Friends have bound me to earth, enemies have loosed me from earth and have demolished all my aspirations in the world.

Enemies have made me a stranger in worldly realms and an extraneous inhabitant of the world. Just as a hunted animal finds safer shelter than an unhunted animal does, so have I, persecuted by enemies, found the safest sanctuary, having ensconced myself beneath your tabernacle, where neither friends nor enemies can slay my soul.

Bless my enemies, O Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them.

They, rather than I, have confessed my sins before the world. They have punished me, whenever I have hesitated to punish myself. They have tormented me, whenever I have tried to flee torments. They have scolded me, whenever I have flattered myself. They have spat upon me, whenever I have filled myself with arrogance.

Bless my enemies, O Lord, Even I bless them and do not curse them.

Whenever I have made myself wise, they have called me foolish.
Whenever I have made myself mighty, they have mocked me as though I were a dwarf.
Whenever I have wanted to lead people, they have shoved me into the background.
Whenever I have rushed to enrich myself, they have prevented me with an iron hand.
Whenever I thought that I would sleep peacefully, they have wakened me from sleep.
Whenever I have tried to build a home for a long and tranquil life, they have demolished it and driven me out. Truly, enemies have cut me loose from the world and have stretched out my hands to the hem of your garment.

Bless my enemies, O Lord. Even I bless them and do not curse them.

Bless them and multiply them; multiply them and make them even more bitterly against me: so that my fleeing to You may have no return; so that all hope in men may be scattered like cobwebs; so that absolute serenity may begin to reign in my soul; so that my heart may become the grave of my two evil twins, arrogance and anger; so that I might amass all my treasure in heaven; ah, so that I may for once be freed from self-deception, which has entangled me in the dreadful web of illusory life.

Enemies have taught me to know what hardly anyone knows, that a person has no enemies in the world except himself. One hates his enemies only when he fails to realize that they are not enemies, but cruel friends. It is truly difficult for me to say who has done me more good and who has done me more evil in the world: friends or enemies. Therefore bless, O Lord, both my friends and enemies. A slave curses enemies, for he does not understand. But a son blesses them, for he understands. For a son knows that his enemies cannot touch his life. Therefore he freely steps among them and prays to God for them.

St Nikolai Velimirovich

126 posted on 12/09/2004 1:30:49 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Bandaneira

Collecting your previous posts ...

>Wow, I don't think humankind deserves death and hell.

Please see http://www.csua.berkeley.edu/~allenp/ORIGINALSIN.html

>No, Mike. Don't look at Jews for Jesus. It is a waste of
>your time.

Here's the evidence in the Old Testament which points to the 1st century arrival of the messiah found http://www.yfiles.com/y3nf.html and http://yfiles.com/shiloh.html

>One does not need an intermediary to connect to the higher
>force.

If God ordained the priest of Psalms 110 to be our intermediary, then who are we to complain? Psalms 80:17 makes it clear that the individual at God's right hand is the Son of Man. Daniel 7:14 shows that the Son of Man will be given an everlasting kingdom. Jeremiah 23:6 tells us that in the days of this King, Judah shall be saved. "Saved" implies forgiveness of sin, which Zechariah 3:9 implies will be done through an engraving action on a stone with seven eyes. Zechariah 4:10 tells us that God Himself has seven eyes.

God informs us of his using "similitudes" in the speakings of the prophets in Hosea 12:10.

>Which one of the following sects best approximates your
>belief system/frame of reference ?

The New Testament, like the Old Testament, are the Word of God, because they say what happens thousands of years before they happen. What man builds on top of the Word of God, does not make the Word of God cease to be so. There could be a million incorrect sects of Christianity, and it still wouldn't transform God's truths and Word into lies.

Christianity can withstand the strongest scrutiny. I invite you to write me privately, and we can arrange to meet and lay out the evidence for and against Jesus Christ being Messiah and God.


127 posted on 12/09/2004 1:33:46 AM PST by ROTB
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To: ROTB
This is what the New Testament says on this subject ...

I'm well aware of that, newbie.

128 posted on 12/09/2004 1:34:01 AM PST by backhoe (-30-)
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To: trickyricky
Post#112 is arrogant,unChristian,and most assuredly silly to boot.

And telling me to read someone else's post,which was directed to me anyway,using it as a way to trash me,without writing it yourself,is so SINFUL,as to be actually funny! LOL

You and the writer of that post have broken one of the ten commandments.Now how is THAT going to help you reach heaven? :-)

129 posted on 12/09/2004 1:35:27 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
My understanding of Christianity is quite good,actually and is devoid of tinfoil...which is why I stay off the Religion here. ;^)

It's not and you don't You're just a nasty troll, really.

130 posted on 12/09/2004 1:41:16 AM PST by Dec31,1999 (www.protestwarrior.com)
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To: nopardons
My understanding of Christianity is quite good...

No, it isn't. In fact, everything from your mis-naming of the book of Revelation (no plural there), to your petulant claims that no one knows how much you read the Bible, fairly scream "light-weight." You might as well claim to be a sniper who can't recall bullet drops for a .308. And while you may not be embarrassed, it's only because you don't recognize how painfully obvious your lack of knowlege is to the rest of us.

131 posted on 12/09/2004 1:43:14 AM PST by papertyger
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To: loboinok
Which one of the following sects [sic,/b>] best approximates your belief system/frame of reference ?

There is one Apostolic Church -- with two Rites: East (Orthodox) and West (Roman Catholic) -- that has been around since the Pentecost, and She is no sect.

All others are whatever you want to call them. Get your facts straight.

132 posted on 12/09/2004 1:44:46 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Bandaneira

Here are a few simple questions. Did Noah want a worldwide flood so he could build an ark? Did Abraham want to kill Isaac to obey God? Did Abraham want to see the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed to rescue Lot? Did Moses want want the angel of death to come and kill the first born so that Pharaoh would finally free the Israelites?


133 posted on 12/09/2004 1:45:55 AM PST by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: Dec31,1999
How exceedingly childish!

And YOU imagine that you are a "good" Christian? That's just too too funny for words.But that's what FR's religion threads always turn into...flame wars.And it's also why they are oh so boring to boot. LOL

134 posted on 12/09/2004 1:59:31 AM PST by nopardons
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To: Mike10542
2/3 of the Jews are not killed during the rapture. You're confusing different events. The rapture marks the end of the present age with the translation of the true church into the Lord's presence in the clouds. This doctrine is one of the major considerations of the Eschatology of the New Testament (Jn 14:1-3; 2 Thes 2:1; 1 Thes 4:13-18; 1 Cor 1:8; 15:51,52; Phil. 3:20,21; 2 Cor 5:1-9). The major issues with respect to the rapture are the premillenialists who debate who is raptured, and pretribulationalists, midtribulationist posttribulationists raise issue with when the rapture occurs. Also there is the non-literal view of the second advent.

This is by those who dispute a literal, bodily, personal, return to earth by Christ. Frankly, this is a result of disbelief in the Word of God (or the spiritualizing method of interpretation). The postmillenial view, popular among covenant theologians, teaches that the world through preaching of the Gospel will be Christianized and brought to sumission to the Gospel before the return of Christ. Those who hold to this view while holding to a literal second, follow the Old Testament teaching on the nature of the millenium kingdom. Amillenialists hold that there is no literal millenium on earth followed by a second advent. All the prophecies concerning the kingdom are being fullfilled in the inter-advent period spiritually by the church. In its most general characterization, amillenialists deny a literal 1000 year reign of Christ upon the earth.

Two events are occuring in parallel post-rapture. For the church the first to occur is the judgement seat of Christ (also known as the bema seat), and then the marriage of the Lamb. Simultaneous with this is the Tribulation that occurs on earth. Many things occur during that time; the Book of Revelation illuminates that time in great detail.

Frankly, all these issues can be resolved through the use of proper hermeneutic and exegetical (reading out of, expounded by) interpretation of scripture. A no more satisfactory resolution can be made than a pre-trib rapture with a pre-millenial second advent of Christ. Any other doctrine is flawed, and is a result of improper hermeneutic and or an eisegetical (reading into or applying onto) interpretation of scripture.

135 posted on 12/09/2004 1:59:56 AM PST by raygun
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To: papertyger
Reading comprehension classes would do you a world of good,dear. :-)

So would attempting to be a Christian.

Tsk,tsk,tsk.......

136 posted on 12/09/2004 2:01:36 AM PST by nopardons
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To: nopardons
This thread has been moved to the Religion Forum, which means you are now in my part of Free Republic. It also means that your combative style of posting is not welcome here.

Knock it off. Make your claim good - stay off the Religion Forum.

137 posted on 12/09/2004 2:05:04 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: kosta50; Bandaneira

You are posting to the wrong person.You need to direct your post to Bandaneira.


138 posted on 12/09/2004 2:16:18 AM PST by loboinok (GUN CONTROL IS HITTING WHAT YOU AIM AT.)
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To: Bandaneira
No, we (at least no Christian believer I know) wants a war for that reason! (Many Christians have major questions about the way the rapture doctrine is taught. Yes, there are 'caught up' scriptures in the NT, but there are also 'endure to the end' scriptures. It's okay with the Lord if we put all this stuff on a big shelf in our minds, and wait for confirmation in our spirits by the Holy Spirit, and not just accept every doctrine we don't see in balance AND context in the Word. Koresh and Jim Jones expected their followers to check their minds at the door, but God gave us our minds for a reason. )

We are told to pray for the peace of Jerusalem, NOT to pray for a war there. I've only heard this theory (about Chrisitans only siding with Jewish people because we want them in charge of Jerusalem to hasten the return of Christ) from those trying to drive a wedge between the two groups. I've NEVER heard this idea taught from any pulpit at any church I've attended or any teaching I've listened to. Most of what I've listened to is concerned with becoming Christ-like in life, dying daily to selfishness and self-centeredness and walking in love with your family and neighbors.

I don't know about other Christians, but whenever I meet a Jewish person, I have a genuine affection for them, and a real desire to understand their faith, because I think their faith sheds so much light on our own. I could go on for pages about all of the rich language in the Old Testament, which is vital for Christians to have an understanding of in order to more fully grasp our own heritage.

So, in answer to your very simple question:

No, I don't want a major war.

139 posted on 12/09/2004 2:58:55 AM PST by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (THANK YOU LORD -- John Kerry is still just a senator.)
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To: ROTB

Christianity doesn't stand or fall upon the veracity of the Bible. Christianity stands or falls on whether or not Jesus Christ is whom He said He was. If Jesus Christ is not the Son of God, the blemishless lamb of God who comes to wash away the sins of the world, then the greatest movement since the invention of mankind is entirely predicated on a lie. Who would knowingly and willingly die for a lie (suffering excruciating torment and torture in the process)? All but one of the apostles died violent deaths. Furthermore, and that notwithstanding, the empty tomb needs a suitable explanation.


140 posted on 12/09/2004 2:59:13 AM PST by raygun
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