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Question to Christians From a Jewish Friend
December 9, 2004 | Michael Katz

Posted on 12/08/2004 11:08:38 PM PST by Mike10542

Hey fellow freepers, having been swept up in the battle of conservatives first liberals and believers in God vs. non-beleivers I clearly have chosen the right side here (hence me writing on Free Republic). The alignment of Jews like myself and many fellow Christians is one that I feel is very necesary to win the war against evil and have peace in our time. Although I choose to ignore all the leftists and others who try to break up this loving partnership by saying "They are only on your side becuase they want the Jews in control of Jerusalem so Christ returns," I am looking to explore what the Bible really teaches about the Jewish fate from the Christian perspective. It is hard to find what the majority opinion is because the internet is, well, the internet. What I have made out so far is that during rapture I beleive 2/3's of Jews are killed, but one third survive. So my questions are:

1) What do the 2/3's of Jews die from (war, just happens????)

2) What happens to the remaning 1/3 of Jews after they survive?

3) Do any of this remaining 1/3 of Jews make it past the final judgement of God (some interpertations say no, others say the remaining Jews are allowed to pass once accepting God and I think Christ)

I truly beleive in my Jewish fate as I have been raised Jewish, but my mom is Christian. So each religion I respect and believe are good. Ultimately, I hope us Jews and Christians both make it together to the promised land (and only the Muslims are sent to hell!)

Thanks for all your answers. Also, feel free to direct me to anywhere where I can learn more about this subject.

KEYWORDS: endtimes; prophecy; rapture
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To: fish hawk
That's a good one. I heartily recommend it, and add it to the pile I've already raised Skellmyer's Thigpen with. Either he raises, calls or folds. The bottom line is I'm prepared to do battle and contend for the faith (Jude 3).
161 posted on 12/09/2004 7:32:05 AM PST by raygun
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To: Rockingham
In a profound sense, America leads the world not just in the religiosity of it people, but in the good relations between most faiths. Islam is a new and uncertain element, its place and intentions clouded by Wahhabist extremism, terrorism, and the rise of political Islam and hatred of Israel and Jews as a defining feature of the Islamic identity.

Gen 16:11 And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou [art] with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.

Gen 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand [will be] against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

162 posted on 12/09/2004 7:34:57 AM PST by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: raygun
I see your Thigpen, and I raise you a J. Dwight Pentecost, Walvoord, Ryrie, A.T. Robertson, Thiessen, Chafer, Hunt,

Blah, blah, blah.

Find me one Christian between 100 AD and 1800 AD who believed in the rapture (I'm leaving the NT out of this because we are disputing over the meaning of those texts).

163 posted on 12/09/2004 7:39:44 AM PST by skellmeyer
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To: Mike10542
I don't know how the end times will play out with the Jews and Christians.

I think Christians should treat Jews with love and respect unconditionally and vice versa. I certainly don't like the idea of supporting Jews *just because* it fits a Christian interpretation which could be incorrect, at least in part, because that is self-serving and hypocritical.

I do not wish decent Muslims to go to hell. I don't really wish anyone burns forever. I do hope that there will be some kind of separation of the good and the bad though as part of what makes life so difficult is living in fear of anyone who would do anyone harm unless it is necessary in a just war.

Just some thoughts. If I didn't choose to be a Christian, I would choose to be a Jew. I wish that the practice of Christianity could be more "Jewish". I personally wish we could worship more closely to how Jesus worshipped only with his addition of the Eucharist and other early Christian modifications such as lessening of dietary restrictions. According to my belief, animal sacrifices were no longer necessary after Jesus' death, but being a Jew, he would have supported that.

As a Catholic who is practicing again, I can't resolve how we can obey the commandment of keeping the sabbath and at the same time meet on the "Lord's day" (Sunday) for Christian worship. It isn't practical to do both unless you become part of a sabbatarian group which doesn't exactly fit the bill either.

I do look forward to Jesus' return and hope that all things are restored eventually in a manner that is most pleasing to God, no matter whose ox gets gored in the process.

Jesus did keep a Saturday sabbath and was a practicing Jew until he was crucified. I doubt he ever ate pork, but I believe it is permissible for Christians because of Peter's vision.

I do understand that with the inclusion of the gentiles in Christianity, some rules had to be modified, but sometimes I think they changed too many things over the centuries. Some of my thinking would make some Catholics, Orthodox and even Jews upset.

There are aspects of the Catholic religion that I have mental reservations about. I wouldn't have liked to be Jewish and watched them killing all those animals for sacrifices. I feed sparrows on my front porch and if I killed one (which would be unthinkable), I would be considered a mental risk. Two birds were sacrificed after Jesus was born. I think it was sparrows but maybe it was doves. I can't remember.

But it all gets too complicated, so I just do the best I can and hope for the best for all of us. There are a lot of things I don't understand and don't make a whole lot of sense at this late date and I'm getting too old to make sense of some things. But I'm not getting to old to think and wonder about things, things that a lot of people don't think about.

164 posted on 12/09/2004 7:40:33 AM PST by Aliska
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Comment #165 Removed by Moderator

To: loboinok


166 posted on 12/09/2004 7:47:59 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Quinotto

Serbian Orthodox

167 posted on 12/09/2004 7:49:27 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: redgolum

It puts things in perspective.

168 posted on 12/09/2004 7:51:04 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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Comment #169 Removed by Moderator

Comment #170 Removed by Moderator

To: Mike10542
Just one more comment. I never understood why any Jew would voluntarily convert to the Catholic (or Orthodox) religion after the way they were treated historically. There is a book I learned about a few months ago.

I have been wanting to read it for awhile so I ordered it from Ignatius Press for 20.95 including shipping. It's by Roy Schoeman (grew up Jewish in France I think) and titled "Salvation is from the Jews."

Author biography is here in .pdf format

Just in case anyone finds it interesting.

171 posted on 12/09/2004 8:04:39 AM PST by Aliska
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To: nopardons
And YOU imagine that you are a "good" Christian?

Actually, I'm one of the "bad" ones. But at least I'm not a religious thread stalking TROLL like you, thank God!.

And that "LOL" thing is so original, too, trollpardons. (Oh, LOL!)

172 posted on 12/09/2004 8:05:40 AM PST by Dec31,1999 (
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To: NYer

Guess we are in sync today. Sorry I didn't see your post before I wrote my comment further down. Didn't know the thread had gotten so long and convoluted.

173 posted on 12/09/2004 8:08:37 AM PST by Aliska
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To: Mike10542

Dear Mike:
I am so glad to hear your interest in your two faiths. God has a plan for the Jews in the endtimes. Even in the Christian faith Israel remains God's chosen people. We Christians have been adopted into God's family. I encourage you to go to the Jews for Jesus website. I have read their book regarding how they came about. They are a wonderful group and can help you in your search for the Truth. May your quest be blessed by our great I AM.

174 posted on 12/09/2004 8:09:16 AM PST by mxdmta4
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To: Nathaniel Fischer
Where does Protestantism fit in there?

Protestantism is not Apostolic.

175 posted on 12/09/2004 8:12:30 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Mike10542

If you are a Christian, you cannot look at those outside your faith as being "saved"/ right with God/ making it to heaven. If you are a Jew the good of all nations are right with God. That aside, if you are trying to choose between the 2 faiths, you should study both the Jewish and Christian interpretation of scripture and decide for yourself which rings true to you.

These are just a few sources that opened my eyes:

May God bless you in your search.

176 posted on 12/09/2004 8:24:28 AM PST by 1 spark ("Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord,")
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To: skellmeyer

It would seem post #154 went right over your head, eh?

177 posted on 12/09/2004 8:24:34 AM PST by raygun
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To: Aliska
Guess we are in sync today.

Have you received the book yet? I ordered it from and had it within a few days. Rarely do I ever read a book from cover to cover. This one I 'imbibed' slowly, bookmarking multiple sections for reference. It is outstanding!

Mr. Schoeman addresses a question that has plagued me for years. He writes:

"Both Matthew and Mark explicitly mention Jesus' silence as well as the underlying motive of envy. From Matthew 27:12-18:

But when he was accused by the chief priests and elders, he made no answer. Then Pilate said to him, "Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?" But he gave him no answer, not even to a single charge; so that the governor wondered greatly ... For he knew that it was out of envy that they had delivered him up."

Mr. Schoeman points to the Lemann brothers (also Jewish converts) who made the touching point that Jesus' silence before the High Priest was motivated by His profound respect for the office of the Jewish Priesthood. Mosaic law forbids compelling a witness to testify against himself. It was because Jesus did not want to put the High Priest in the position of sinning against that law that He refused to answer the High Priest's questions even though beaten for it. (John 18:19-23) which he then quotes. Jesus acquiesced only when the High Priest ordered Him to answer in the name of God.

This is extraordinary! I am not familiar with Mosaic law and could never have figured this out. Can you imagine! Here is the sinless Son of God respecting Jewish laws so as not to cause his accuser to sin!

BTW - he will be a guest of Marcus Grodi on EWTN's The Journey Home , on Monday, January 10 @ 8pm EDT. Like St. Paul, he had an instantaneous conversion. It's a most fascinating story.

178 posted on 12/09/2004 8:44:06 AM PST by NYer ("Blessed be He who by His love has given life to all." - final prayer of St. Charbel)
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To: Nathaniel Fischer

You, too. Bye.

179 posted on 12/09/2004 8:50:52 AM PST by backhoe (-30-)
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To: Mike10542

Correct me if I'm wrong but if your mom isn't jewish then, according to Rabbinic Judaism, you arent either.

180 posted on 12/09/2004 9:12:01 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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