Posted on 12/17/2004 12:36:27 PM PST by suzyjaruki
A. The casting of lots was very frequently used in the ancient world, including Israel. The case of I Sam. 14:40-42, according to the Septuagint translation, was a use of the Urim and Thummim, rather than the casting of lots itself, and these, with the Ephod were part of the Breastplate of judgment. The verses you are referring to are:
"And Saul said, Let us go down after the Philistines by night, and spoil them until the morning light, and let us not leave a man of them. And they said, Do whatsoever seemeth good unto thee. Then said the priest, Let us draw near hither unto God. And Saul asked counsel of God, Shall I go down after the Philistines? wilt thou deliver them into the hand of Israel? But he answered him not that day. And Saul said, Draw ye near hither, all the chief of the people: and know and see wherein this sin hath been this day. For, [as] the LORD liveth, which saveth Israel, though it be in Jonathan my son, he shall surely die. But [there was] not a man among all the people [that] answered him.
"Then said he unto all Israel, Be ye on one side, and I and Jonathan my son will be on the other side. And the people said unto Saul, Do what seemeth good unto thee. Therefore Saul said unto the LORD God of Israel, Give a perfect [lot]. And Saul and Jonathan were taken: but the people escaped. And Saul said, Cast [lots] between me and Jonathan my son. And Jonathan was taken. " (1Samuel 14:36-42, KJV)
According to Jewish historian, Josephus, the Urim consisted of two sardonyx stones, each contained in a pouch in the Breastplate worn by the High Priest. One of the two stones shined brightly when God was present (or involved). It seems, that in verse 37 of the Scripture above, God did not answer Saul's request, but He did answer the other request, recorded in verses 40-42.
The main obvious reason for casting lots was the impartiality of a certain decision. No one could argue that the decision was the result of politics, nepotism, favoritism, etc. It basically was the same as the casting of dice of today. They used different means of casting, depending on the location and customs. The varied from polished sticks to coins, cards, dice, end more.
What is particularly significant is the fact that, in ancient Israel, the High Priest did use this method for important, uncertain decisions. It amounted to consulting God for the answer:
"The lot is cast into the lap, but its every decision is from the Lord." ( Proverbs 16:33)
The last recorded case in Scripture is on Acts 1:24-26, when the apostles asked God' decision of a choice between two men to replace Judas, through the casting of lots.
"And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all [men], shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles. " (Acts 1:24-26)
It has been an ancient practice for people to take upon themselves to enquire things unknown, through mediums, readers of cards, palm readers, diviners, etc. This is part of the occult that God condemns, as made abundantly clear in Deut. 18:9-14:
"When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you [any one] that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, [or] that useth divination, [or] an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things [are] an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee. Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God. For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so [to do].
It is quite OK to flip a coin or some similar method, like a draw, to determine a winner , or the like, with the understanding that the outcome is left to chance and nothing else.
Thank you for your question and your interest in the Bible. Besides being the book of instruction in righteousness is also a fascinating book for study and discovery.
Answer Given By: Adriano Borean
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SO9
what he said- tossing what would have been considered "dice" in Biblical times.
I've read references in my study Bible to the "Umim and Thummim" (sp?) on the breastplate of the high priest, and that those may have been used in some of the lot-casting in the Old Testament, like in I Samuel. What exactly were the Umim and Thummim and how would they be used to cast lots?
}:-)4
I thought "casting lots" was what evolved into what is referred today in show business as "casting couch"?
In the event of selecting Mattias to replace Judas, According to “John Gills Exposition of the Entire Bible”, this selection was by voting. There were two urns. One had the name of Joseph, the other Matthias. Each of the Apostles was given two lots. One lot was marked in a way to reflect a negative vote, the other to reflect a positive vote. Each of the apostles would drop a lot into each of the urns, and whoever’s urn had the most positive votes was declared the winner (in this case Matthias).
"Casting Lots" was an ad put out by the producers of the new musical version of "sodom and gomorrah" when they were looking for thier next big star.
I am glad someone got my Friday humor.
Thank you for your contribution to this thread.
I looked at your webpage. It takes courage to post a testimonial about God's calling in your life.
Wow, lots of information here. I'll be reading it later. Thank you for contributing.
Actually, posting a testimonial was easy. Actually getting out and spreading the gospel in person is hard. I have a certain amount of envy for missionaries, who put it all out on the line. I wish I had that level of determination.
I'll tell you a quick story: Last Wednesday night I and a friend were out downtawn passing out tracts. We were doing nothing other than handing out literature about the birth of Christ and Christmas.
I gave one of the tracts to a woman who looked at the title (The Greatest Story ever told), who then decided to start yelling at me, say "You must be from one of those anti-liberal, homophobic churches!!! You're just full of hate!!!" She proceeded to tell me I was full of hate several times, and when my friend came up (he was a little behind me one the street) she saw he had more of the tracts, so she proceeded to tell him he was full of hate.
My only response back to her was "Maam, all I did was hand you a tract telling of the Gospel of Christ", at which point I guess she saw that she was making a fool of herself as there were plenty some other people watching her rant on.
Once she left, my friend ask "what did you do to her?"
I wonder if she was shopping for Christmas presents at the time.
And they gave forth their lots…In other words, he's not really sure what they did.
Or "gave forth lots for them", as the Vulgate Latin and Ethiopic versions; for Joseph and Matthias; some for one, and some for another; and which were cast into a man's lap, or into a vessel, and was no other than balloting for them; and so he that had the majority upon casting them up, when taken out, was declared the person chosen; or "they cast their lots"; that is, into an urn, or vessel; which lots had the names of the two persons on them; and into another vessel, as is thought, were put two other lots; the one had the name of "apostle" upon it, and the other nothing; and these being taken out by persons appointed for that purpose, the lot with Matthias's name on it, was taken out against that which had the name of apostle on it, upon which he was declared to be the apostle: it may be that this was done in the same manner, as the goats on the day of atonement had lots cast on them, (Leviticus 16:8) which the Jews say was thus performed: there was a vessel which they call "Kalphi", set in the court, into which two lots, which were made of wood, or stone, or metal, were put; the one had written on it, for Jehovah, and on the other was written, "for the scapegoat"; the two goats being, the one at the right hand of the priest, and the other at the left; the priest shook the vessel, and with his two hands took out the two lots, and laid the lots on the two goats; the right on that which was at his right hand, and the left on that which was at his left; and so the goat which had the lot put upon him, on which was written, "for the Lord", was killed; and that which had the other lot, on which was written, for the scapegoat, was presented alive; so the lot here is said to fall upon Matthias: or the lots being cast into the vessel, as above related, these two drew them out themselves; and Matthias taking out that which had the word apostle on it, the lot fell on him: the manner of Moses's choosing the seventy elders, is said to be this:``Moses took seventy two papers, and on seventy of them he wrote, (Nqz) , "an elder"; and upon two, (qlx) , "a part"; and he chose six out of every tribe, and there were seventy two; he said unto them, take your papers out of the vessel; he into whose hand came up "an elder" (i.e. the paper on which it was so written) he was sanctified (or set apart to the office); and he, in whose hand came up "a part" (the paper that had that on it), to him he said, the Lord does not delight in thee.''
I have always thought it meant to make a decision to join something, or become a part of something.
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