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A Comprehensive Biblical Defense of the Trinity
Contender Ministries ^ | De3c 12th, 2004 | Jennifer Rast

Posted on 12/19/2004 12:23:19 PM PST by missyme

Perhaps the single most misunderstood doctrine regarding the nature of God is the doctrine of the Trinity. Believers and nonbelievers alike have a difficult time comprehending God’s triune nature, and those that do understand have a difficult time explaining it.

As critics of the Trinity are quick to point out, the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, and no single verse provides a summary of the Trinitarian doctrine. In an email we received, LDS apologist D.L. Barksdale said, “The homoousion Trinitarian dogma is heretical to anyone who cherishes the Bible. It is an unbiblical doctrine…”

Complicating the issue are various misconceptions about the Trinity within Christianity as well as from without. Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons disregard the Trinity, believing that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct gods, with the Father being a greater God than the other two.

Jehovah’s Witnesses especially emphasize the subordination of the Godhead, believing Jesus to be Michael the Archangel – a created being, and a lesser “god” than Jehovah. Mormon doctrine is polytheistic (worship of multiple gods), though some Mormons will stress that their belief is henotheistic (belief in multiple gods, but worship of only one). Mohammad’s misunderstanding of the Trinity was apparently affected by the hyperdulia veneration of Mary seen in the Eastern and Roman Catholic churches, as the Qur’an accuses Christians of believing the Trinity to be composed of God the Father, Jesus, and Mary. Indeed, the doctrine of the Trinity can pose a stumbling block for some people. A Jehovah’s Witness sent us an email that included the following (the English is poor, but you’ll see the point):

“And when I can not find in any Bible that I read that there is a 3 headed god that will resurrect anyone on this earth, both now or ever. If this 3 headed god is your belief? I have never read about such a god in any Christian Bible that I have ever read!” As I told this man, we agree that the Bible does not teach of a three-headed god. That sounds more akin to the hydra of Greek mythology. Yet this illustrates the extent of the misunderstandings.

Even Christian churches have been victimized by erroneous doctrines such as modalism, particularly Oneness theology.

We may never fully understand the nature of God until we get into heaven. God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal. Our finite created minds are unable to fully grasp these characteristics of God. However, it is possible to have a basic understanding of the triune nature of God, and to be able to defend this doctrine with the Word of God. In this article, we’ll assess the Scriptural evidence and put the pieces together until they form a full picture. A triune God will be the only possible verdict based on an objective analysis of the Scriptural evidence.

The doctrine of the Trinity can be summed up as follows: Within the one Being that is God, there exist eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.[1] In order to prove this doctrine we must prove the following:

There is only one God

The Father is God

Jesus is God

The Holy Spirit is God

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons.

Each point above is very important, and we will clearly illustrate each. Heresy arises when these distinctions are blurred. For instance, modalism (also known as Oneness theology) would agree with items one through four, but item five is where modalism fails. However, as James White said in regards to the doctrine of the Trinity, “For some reason many feel that there is a hierarchy of ‘error’ when it comes to the Trinity…. We are to worship God in spirit and in truth, and two-thirds of the truth is not a valid substitute, no matter which one-third of His truth we choose to reject.”[2]

There is a treasure trove of Scriptures to support each of the points we’ll be studying. To keep this article at a reasonable length, where there are several relevant verses, I’ll limit the full verse quotation to two verses (in NIV, unless stated otherwise), and give the Scripture references for the rest.

1. There is only one God:

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are known as the big three monotheistic religions. You won’t find many arguments among Muslims, Jews, and Christians that there is more than one God, except perhaps among some aberrant sects. Nevertheless, let us establish this Scripturally before we move on to areas where disagreements will arise.

A. There is only one God:

“You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.” – Deuteronomy 4:35

"This is what the LORD says- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.” – Isaiah 44:6

Other Old Testament Verses: Deut. 4:39; 32:39; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 37:20; 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5, 14, 21-22; 46:9.

“How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?” – John 5:44

“…since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.” Romans 3:30

Other New Testament Verses: Rom. 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6, 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25.

B. There is only one true God:

“But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.” – Jeremiah 10:10

“We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true--even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” – 1 John 5:20.

Other verses: 2 Chron. 15:3; John 17:3; 1 Thess. 1:9.

C. All other so-called “gods” are false gods.

“For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens.” – Psalm 96:5

“So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one.” – 1 Corinthians 8:4

Other verses: Deut. 32:21; 1 Sam. 12:21; Isa. 37:19; 41:23-24, 29; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 16:20; 1 Cor. 10:19-20.

The verses above are clear evidence that there is only one God. This is known as monotheism. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are known as the three great monotheistic religions. However, Islam and Judaism will fall off as we continue our support of the Trinity.

2. There is a plurality to God.

The Hebrew word for God is el in its singular form. The most common form used for God is elohim, which is plural in form. How can there be plural form used for only one God? Some suggest that the answer is found in the three persons of the Trinity. Others contend that the plural construct denotes a fullness of deity as opposed to plurality. I submit that both interpretations are correct. I’m getting ahead of myself now though. Rather than look at all the verses that use the plural elohim, let’s look at other verses that point to a plurality within the one God.

“Let us make man in our image” – Genesis 1:26, emphasis added.

“God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of us…’” – Genesis 3:22, emphasis added.

Some would say that God could be speaking to the angels in these verses, but that's simply not correct. God was speaking to co-creator(s) in these verses (“Let us make man…”). Who could be a co-creator? Not the angels. The answer is found later in this article.

3. The Father is God.

This isn’t really an item that is in question. While God the Father is only known as the Father in the New Testament, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and pseudo-Christian cults understand that the Father in the New Testament is the Yahweh of the Old Testament, though some disagree with the characterization of “Father”. However, it is important to establish that the Father of the New Testament is the true God referred to in the Old Testament, known often as Yahweh, or “Jehovah”.[3]

A. The Father is God.

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,” – 2 Corinthians 1:3

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.” – Ephesians 1:3

Other verses: John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; 1 Peter 1:3; (Note: Some verses seem to indicate that Jesus is not God at first glance. These will be explained later).

B. The God of the Old Testament is known as Yahweh/Jehovah (“The LORD”).

“You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other…. Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.” – Deuteronomy 4:35, 39.[4]

“Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture.” – Psalm 100:3

Other verses: Gen. 9:26; 24; Exo. 3:14-18; 4:5; 2 Sam. 7:22, 25.

From the verses above, it is clear that Yahweh/Jehovah in the Old Testament is the one God. It is also clear that the Father in the New Testament is that one God. Now, let’s look at whether Jesus Christ is God. Remember, there is only one God. There is also a mysterious plurality to this one God. We have established that the Father is Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament. We now explore the plurality in the one true God.

4. Jesus is God.

There is a great deal of Scriptural evidence that Jesus Christ is God. The evidence is comprised not only of specific statements, but also in prophecy fulfillment and his attributes. Let’s first look at some of explicit Scriptural evidence. In this section, we won’t limit ourselves to only giving the text of two verses.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…. No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.” – John 1:1

“Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” – John 20:28

I want to pause just a moment to discuss the verses above. The Greek word for God is theos. In John 1:1, we read that the Word (Jesus) was with theos and was indeed theos. Jesus was (and is) God! This is a very powerful statement! The word theos is used not only in John 1:1, but also in verse 18 and in John 20:28. Theos is used in the New Testament in reference to Jehovah/Yahweh God. Theos is also used in reference to Jesus. We’re beginning to see the plurality found within the one God.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Religion & Science; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: misposted; offtopic

1 posted on 12/19/2004 12:23:19 PM PST by missyme
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Ping


2 posted on 12/19/2004 12:26:41 PM PST by missyme
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To: missyme

Great apologetic piece!


3 posted on 12/19/2004 12:30:19 PM PST by ScottM1968
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To: malakhi

Hi Malakhi,
I thought I would ping you on this as I was interested in doing more research in regards to Genesis:
Let us create man in our own image..

What's your thoughts...Thanks!


The word "Barah" in fact describes well both these actions: make
something in the shape of a former spiritual mold, using unorganized
and invisible elements. The same thing happens every time a flower
blossoms.

"Elohim" (God).
Wonderful word that reveals much richer and more profound meanings
than those offered by the English term God. It is the plural form of
the term Elohà, which is a combination of two ancient roots: El and
Hoa. Hoa is a root to indicate the Supreme Being, "He who exists by
Himself", who is not begotten but has life in Himself. The prefix El
means He and indicated the abstract person. "He who has life in
Himself" is therefore the meaning of the term Eloha.

Adam, in the image of God.
When Elohim decides to create Man (the verb used in Genesis for the
creation of Man is the same used for the creation of the heavens and
the earth) He says: "Let us make Man in our image, after our
likeness". Here the verb is plural: since the Hebrew tongue does not
have the Majestic Plural used in other languages,



4 posted on 12/19/2004 12:37:53 PM PST by missyme
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To: ScottM1968

I totally agree!


5 posted on 12/19/2004 12:41:33 PM PST by missyme
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To: missyme
I may not like Jehovah witnesses' beliefs very much but did he have to use an email from a 12 year old to prove his point?
6 posted on 12/19/2004 1:46:58 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: missyme
That Jesus Christ is God is spoken by the other two Persons of the Trinity as well, not only is and as the Psalms but made reference to by the Holy Spirit and Word of God again in the Book of Hebrews(in which in particular the Son is absolutely distinguished from angels:

Hebrews 1:7-14 And as to the angels he says, Who makes his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire; but as to the Son, Thy throne, O God, is to the age of the age, and a sceptre of uprightness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Thou hast loved righteousness and hast hated lawlessness; therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee with oil of gladness above thy companions. And, *Thou* in the beginning, Lord, hast founded the earth, and works of thy hands are the heavens. They shall perish, but *thou* continuest still; and they all shall grow old as a garment, and as a covering shalt thou roll them up, and they shall be changed; but *thou* art the Same, and thy years shall not fail. But as to which of the angels said he ever, Sit at my right hand until I put thine enemies as footstool of thy feet? Are they not all ministering spirits, sent out for service on account of those who shall inherit salvation?

In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen

7 posted on 12/19/2004 2:21:54 PM PST by telder1
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To: missyme; malakhi
There is a great deal of Scriptural evidence that Jesus Christ is God. The evidence is comprised not only of specific statements, but also in prophecy fulfillment and his attributes.

Then why was this not official until the Council of Nicea? Just curious. That's the same Council which "confirmed" Sunday as the church's sabbath day as well.

Newton had a lot of trouble with the trinity doctrine, but probably didn't want to get the Galileo treatment by the church.

Enough Biblical teaching has been botched over a couple thousand years, that nothing should be taken for granted. If that is considered a "crisis of faith", the question that follows should be, "Faith in what?". God does not change.

I don't recall where it is written in the Scripture, "Thus theorizeth the Lord", or, "Thus speculateth the Lord." It seems more likely that rather than examine Scripture, many people would rather silence/slay/corrupt the witnesses (Law and Prophets).

Besides, I've seen for myself where verses have layers of meaning, which serve to complete the whole. That's still a long way from 70, if that's the case, but enough to recognize that false prophets abound. They are the ones who think they can pervert what's on the surface of the text, unaware that there's a depth of meaning which reveals the truth, despite their lame attempts to disfigure the surface.

And so it goes...

8 posted on 12/19/2004 2:58:51 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal
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To: missyme
A smart, intelligent person picks up the Bible, reads it, prays about it, and decides he agrees with the JW's interpretation.

A smart, intelligent person picks up the Bible, reads it, prays about it, and decides he agrees with the Lutheran interpretation.

One of these people is committing heresy; either by denying the divinity of God, or worshiping a mere man.

How do you, missyme, know which interpretation is heretical? Why is one honest, prayerful interpretation any better than the other? Clearly one is the truth, and the other is a lie. Only one can be correct. But how is a person supposed to choose between them?
9 posted on 12/19/2004 3:43:03 PM PST by Lilllabettt
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To: Lilllabettt

I would go with whatever Religion keeps you out of hell. JW's don't have hell so you can just skip it. I mean, whats the worst that could happen?


10 posted on 12/19/2004 4:37:22 PM PST by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
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To: missyme

360 years after the death of Yeshua the same people that brought you the perpetual virginity of Mary, apostolic succession & transubstantiation decided that a human was
God. Apprx a hundred years later the same people that brought you the perpetual virginity of Mary, apostolic succession and transubstantiation decided that the Holy
Spirt is God. The same people that conjured up the aforementioned doctrines are the people whose mystic interpretations of Hebrew Scripture regarding "trinity" you readily accept.

As I mentioned before this community is not the product of NT writings, the NT writings are a product of this community.

I believe your post consists of the same ol' scriptural interpretations that are retroactive, forced, & mystical.
I encourage you to read some "chumash" and consider
the interpretations of those (Jews) who really have legitmate claims to history.












11 posted on 12/19/2004 5:15:26 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

SO does the Hebrew meaning of GOD EL-Hoa singular or plural?


12 posted on 12/19/2004 6:15:57 PM PST by missyme
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To: missyme
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons.

Teh biblical evidence is scant, if not non-existent on this point.

For example:

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit shall come on you, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow you. Therefore also that Holy One which will be born of you shall be called Son of God.

Jesus Christ was conceived by the holy spirit. Yet througout the NT Jesus refers to God the father as his father. He never calls the Holy spirit his father.

Another glaring example are Paul's letters, specifically the salutations:

Rom 1:7 to all those who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints. Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Co 1:3 Grace be to you, and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Co 1:2 Grace be unto you, and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Gal 1:3 Grace be to you, and peace from God the Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ,

Eph 1:2 Grace be to you, and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Phi 1:2 Grace to you, and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Col 1:2 to the saints and faithful brothers in Christ at Colosse. Grace to you, and peace from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ

1Th 1:1 Paul and Silvanus and Timothy to the church of the Thessalonians, in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ. Grace to you, and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2Th 1:2 Grace to you, and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1Ti 1:2 to Timothy, my own son in the faith. Grace, mercy and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2Ti 1:2 to Timothy, my dearly beloved child. Grace, mercy, peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Tit 1:4 to Titus, a true child according to our common faith. Grace mercy and peace from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior.

Phm 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

In every Pauline epistle, there is not one greeting from a separate person called "the holy spirit". Always from God the father and Christ the son. This would be inexcusable and an incredible insult to God if Paul or anyone else at the the believed that the Holy spirit was a distinct person.

13 posted on 12/19/2004 6:25:27 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: missyme

Go here: http://www.torahofmessiah.com/elohim.html

this addresses quite nicely you "El" as plural contentions.


14 posted on 12/19/2004 6:36:30 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: DouglasKC

he doug long time. how are ya?


15 posted on 12/19/2004 6:44:17 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
he doug long time. how are ya?

I'm good steven. I'm done with classes for a little while so a little more free time...at least beteen everything else going on. How about you? Still well on the road to Judaism?

16 posted on 12/19/2004 6:50:55 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC

Good to hear. How much longer do you have of school? I'm 23 weeks out of 26 into my Judaism classes. I have a few months of Hebrew ahead of me as well and then its up to the Rabbi.


17 posted on 12/19/2004 6:54:08 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Good to hear. How much longer do you have of school? I'm 23 weeks out of 26 into my Judaism classes. I have a few months of Hebrew ahead of me as well and then its up to the Rabbi.

I've been going for a business degree..only two more classes and then I'm done. I'm also taking up a new venture...starting my own business. I figured if someone as dumb as Mack could be successful then I might have a chance.:-)

Good luck in your studies. God promises to deliver all of Israel so I know I'll see you in the resurrection.

18 posted on 12/19/2004 6:58:37 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: missyme

A question:

What did God mean in Genesis 1:26:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the heavens, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Does the use of the words US and OUR indicate more than one person in the creation?


19 posted on 12/19/2004 7:08:23 PM PST by franky (Pray for the souls of the faithful departed. Pray for our own souls to receive the grace of a happy)
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To: Lilllabettt
A smart, intelligent person picks up the Bible, reads it, prays about it, and decides he agrees with the JW's interpretation.

A smart, intelligent person picks up the Bible, reads it, prays about it, and decides he agrees with the Lutheran interpretation.

One of these people is committing heresy; either by denying the divinity of God, or worshiping a mere man.

How do you, missyme, know which interpretation is heretical? Why is one honest, prayerful interpretation any better than the other? Clearly one is the truth, and the other is a lie. Only one can be correct. But how is a person supposed to choose between them?

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The Word of God is not 'holy information', it is Spirit and Life and is God Himself. If the Word of God were indeed some neutral language that God 'used' to 'inform' man as what man should an dshould not do, then indeed, some interpretational rubric would be necessary. But implying that's God's Word is mere 'holy information' goes directly against what God has said of Himself. God is His Word and creates what He speaks, namely us as real, literal new creation in Jesus Christ/Word of God.

John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

So there is no decision at all because the whole of the Holy Scriptures is spirit and life--God's Spirit.

John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

There is only actual and real new creation as an outright new spiritual being in Jesus Christ; no decision. Saying there IS a decision is denying God in a word that cannot be God Himself. That speech that is not-God is a living creature named sin and is the only language men know. To be born again is to be delivered from that speech/creature and to hear the voice of God. The Word o fGod is not and never has been the speech fallen men grew up in. It's actual and real new birth or hell--no decision.

John 1:12,13 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen

20 posted on 12/19/2004 7:12:19 PM PST by telder1
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To: missyme
He says: "Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness". Here the verb is plural

This is completely incorrect. The Hebrew word used here, bara, is singular in form, not plural. As in English, Hebrew requires subject and verb to agree in form. Since bara is singular, then elohim must likewise be singular. The exact opposite of what the passage you cite tries to claim.

There are other words in Hebrew which superficially appear plural in form, but which, grammatically, are singular. For example, chaim (life).

21 posted on 12/19/2004 7:21:38 PM PST by malakhi
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To: DouglasKC

I had my own business for a period of 10 years as well.
That should really be a confidence booster. :-)


22 posted on 12/19/2004 7:23:33 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant; DouglasKC
Howdy fellas, good to see you!

Let's not talk about the Broncos, Lions, or Packers, 'kay? ;o)

23 posted on 12/19/2004 7:25:41 PM PST by malakhi
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To: malakhi

My
Broncos suck.


24 posted on 12/19/2004 7:26:10 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: malakhi
Howdy fellas, good to see you! Let's not talk about the Broncos, Lions, or Packers, 'kay? ;o)

I could not believe the Lions. Harrington finally comes through and puts together a nice game capped by a great drive to a touchdown...and then the snapper muffs the extra point. Sigh.

25 posted on 12/19/2004 7:36:32 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: malakhi; missyme
He says: "Let us make Man in our image, after our likeness". Here the verb is plural
This is completely incorrect. The Hebrew word used here, bara, is singular in form, not plural. As in English, Hebrew requires subject and verb to agree in form. Since bara is singular, then elohim must likewise be singular. The exact opposite of what the passage you cite tries to claim.

I believe it's "asah", not bara, in that phrase if my references are correct. And asah is a plural verb in this case.

26 posted on 12/19/2004 7:38:04 PM PST by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC; missyme
I believe it's "asah", not bara, in that phrase if my references are correct. And asah is a plural verb in this case.

I'm referring to Genesis 1:1.

27 posted on 12/19/2004 7:57:19 PM PST by malakhi
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To: missyme

bump


28 posted on 12/19/2004 8:20:02 PM PST by SausageDog
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To: missyme
missyme....I started reading your post -- but then was left wanting for the conclusion of the article....here it is....and a very MERRYCHRISTMAS to you!!



A Comprehensive Biblical Defense of the Trinity - Ben Rast

Dr. Pyuwarmer flipped the chart closed, took off his reading glasses, and let out a long sigh. “John, there is a procedure that can save your life. I’d like you to consider it.

John Skeptich rubbed his temples and looked up. “Well, is it an invasive procedure?”

"Well, that’s hard to answer, John. Yes and no.”

“You call that an answer, doc?” John’s frustration was beginning to show. “Either it is or it isn’t.”

“Well, it’s kind of both. I’m sorry, but it’s hard to describe. It’s a very advanced procedure, and I don’t really understand it fully myself. However, I think you should have it done.”

"Do you have any literature that can explain it?”

“Well, yes, but it’s not very clearly spelled out. You kind of have to read between the lines. It’s all in there though.”

John could no longer hide his frustration. He stood up, grabbed his coat, and fixed Dr. Pyuwarmer with a hard look. “Look doctor. You’re asking me to submit to a procedure you don’t understand and can’t explain. With all due respect, I’ll take my chances!” With that, John swept out the door, slamming it so hard that Dr. Pyuwarmer’s medical school diploma fell from the wall.

Putting yourself in John’s shoes, it’s easy to see how hard it would be to put your faith in something that your doctor didn’t even understand. Just as in this analogy, Christians must be prepared to explain our faith with nonbelievers. There are few things more important for Christians to understand than the nature of God. Many of the differences between biblical Christianity and cults occur within the context of variant understandings of the nature of God. If we are to worship God in truth (John 4:24) and share the truth with others, it is vitally important that we have an understanding of what the Bible says about God.

Perhaps the single most misunderstood doctrine regarding the nature of God is the doctrine of the Trinity. Believers and nonbelievers alike have a difficult time comprehending God’s triune nature, and those that do understand have a difficult time explaining it. As critics of the Trinity are quick to point out, the word “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, and no single verse provides a summary of the Trinitarian doctrine. In an email we received, LDS apologist D.L. Barksdale said, “The homoousion Trinitarian dogma is heretical to anyone who cherishes the Bible. It is an unbiblical doctrine...”

Complicating the issue are various misconceptions about the Trinity within Christianity as well as from without. Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons disregard the Trinity, believing that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct gods, with the Father being a greater God than the other two. Jehovah’s Witnesses especially emphasize the subordination of the Godhead, believing Jesus to be Michael the Archangel – a created being, and a lesser “god” than Jehovah. Mormon doctrine is polytheistic (worship of multiple gods), though some Mormons will stress that their belief is henotheistic (belief in multiple gods, but worship of only one). Mohammad’s misunderstanding of the Trinity was apparently affected by the hyperdulia veneration of Mary seen in the Eastern and Roman Catholic churches, as the Qur’an accuses Christians of believing the Trinity to be composed of God the Father, Jesus, and Mary. Indeed, the doctrine of the Trinity can pose a stumbling block for some people. A Jehovah’s Witness sent us an email that included the following (the English is poor, but you’ll see the point): “And when I can not find in any Bible that I read that there is a 3 headed god that will resurrect anyone on this earth, both now or ever. If this 3 headed god is your belief? I have never read about such a god in any Christian Bible that I have ever read!” As I told this man, we agree that the Bible does not teach of a three-headed god. That sounds more akin to the hydra of Greek mythology. Yet this illustrates the extent of the misunderstandings. Even Christian churches have been victimized by erroneous doctrines such as modalism, particularly Oneness theology.

We may never fully understand the nature of God until we get into heaven. God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal. Our finite created minds are unable to fully grasp these characteristics of God. However, it is possible to have a basic understanding of the triune nature of God, and to be able to defend this doctrine with the Word of God. In this article, we’ll assess the Scriptural evidence and put the pieces together until they form a full picture. A triune God will be the only possible verdict based on an objective analysis of the Scriptural evidence.

The doctrine of the Trinity can be summed up as follows: Within the one Being that is God, there exist eternally three coequal and coeternal Persons, namely, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. In order to prove this doctrine we must prove the following:

There is only one God

The Father is God

Jesus is God

The Holy Spirit is God

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct Persons.

Each point above is very important, and we will clearly illustrate each. Heresy arises when these distinctions are blurred. For instance, modalism (also known as Oneness theology) would agree with items one through four, but item five is where modalism fails. However, as James White said in regards to the doctrine of the Trinity, “For some reason many feel that there is a hierarchy of ‘error’ when it comes to the Trinity.... We are to worship God in spirit and in truth, and two-thirds of the truth is not a valid substitute, no matter which one-third of His truth we choose to reject.”

There is a treasure trove of Scriptures to support each of the points we’ll be studying. To keep this article at a reasonable length, where there are several relevant verses, I’ll limit the full verse quotation to two verses (in NIV, unless stated otherwise), and give the Scripture references for the rest.

1. There is only one God:

Islam, Judaism, and Christianity are known as the big three monotheistic religions. You won’t find many arguments among Muslims, Jews, and Christians that there is more than one God, except perhaps among some aberrant sects. Nevertheless, let us establish this Scripturally before we move on to areas where disagreements will arise.

A. There is only one God:

“You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.” – Deuteronomy 4:35

"This is what the LORD says- Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.” – Isaiah 44:6

Other Old Testament Verses: Deut. 4:39; 32:39; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 37:20; 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5, 14, 21-22; 46:9.

“How can you believe if you accept praise from one another, yet make no effort to obtain the praise that comes from the only God?” – John 5:44

“...since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.” Romans 3:30

Other New Testament Verses: Rom. 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6, 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25.

B. There is only one true God:

“But the LORD is the true God; he is the living God, the eternal King. When he is angry, the earth trembles; the nations cannot endure his wrath.” – Jeremiah 10:10

“We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true -- even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.” – 1 John 5:20.

Other verses: 2 Chron. 15:3; John 17:3; 1 Thess. 1:9.

C. All other so-called “gods” are false gods.

“For all the gods of the nations are idols, but the LORD made the heavens.” – Psalm 96:5

“So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one.” – 1 Corinthians 8:4

Other verses: Deut. 32:21; 1 Sam. 12:21; Isa. 37:19; 41:23-24, 29; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 16:20; 1 Cor. 10:19-20.

The verses above are clear evidence that there is only one God. This is known as monotheism. Judaism, Islam, and Christianity are known as the three great monotheistic religions. However, Islam and Judaism will fall off as we continue our support of the Trinity.

2. There is a plurality to God.

The Hebrew word for God is el in its singular form. The most common form used for God is elohim, which is plural in form. How can there be plural form used for only one God? Some suggest that the answer is found in the three persons of the Trinity. Others contend that the plural construct denotes a fullness of deity as opposed to plurality. I submit that both interpretations are correct. I’m getting ahead of myself now though. Rather than look at all the verses that use the plural elohim, let’s look at other verses that point to a plurality within the one God.

“Let us make man in our image” – Genesis 1:26, emphasis added.

“God said, ‘Behold, the man has become like one of us...’” – Genesis 3:22, emphasis added.

Some would say that God could be speaking to the angels in these verses, but that's simply not correct. God was speaking to co-creator(s) in these verses (“Let us make man…”). Who could be a co-creator? Not the angels. The answer is found later in this article.

3. The Father is God.

This isn’t really an item that is in question. While God the Father is only known as the Father in the New Testament, Christians, Jews, Muslims, and pseudo-Christian cults understand that the Father in the New Testament is the Yahweh of the Old Testament, though some disagree with the characterization of “Father”. However, it is important to establish that the Father of the New Testament is the true God referred to in the Old Testament, known often as Yahweh, or “Jehovah”.

A. The Father is God.

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,” – 2 Corinthians 1:3

“Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.” – Ephesians 1:3

Other verses: John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; 1 Peter 1:3; (Note: Some verses seem to indicate that Jesus is not God at first glance. These will be explained later).

B. The God of the Old Testament is known as Yahweh/Jehovah (“The LORD”).

“You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other.... Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other.” – Deuteronomy 4:35, 39.

“Know that the LORD is God. It is he who made us, and we are his; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture.” – Psalm 100:3

Other verses: Gen. 9:26; 24; Exo. 3:14-18; 4:5; 2 Sam. 7:22, 25.

From the verses above, it is clear that Yahweh/Jehovah in the Old Testament is the one God. It is also clear that the Father in the New Testament is that one God. Now, let’s look at whether Jesus Christ is God. Remember, there is only one God. There is also a mysterious plurality to this one God. We have established that the Father is Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament. We now explore the plurality in the one true God.

4. Jesus is God.

There is a great deal of Scriptural evidence that Jesus Christ is God. The evidence is comprised not only of specific statements, but also in prophecy fulfillment and his attributes. Let’s first look at some of explicit Scriptural evidence. In this section, we won’t limit ourselves to only giving the text of two verses.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.... No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.” – John 1:1

“Thomas said to him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” – John 20:28

I want to pause just a moment to discuss the verses above. The Greek word for God is theos. In John 1:1, we read that the Word (Jesus) was with theos and was indeed theos. Jesus was (and is) God! This is a very powerful statement! The word theos is used not only in John 1:1, but also in verse 18 and in John 20:28. Theos is used in the New Testament in reference to Jehovah/Yahweh God. Theos is also used in reference to Jesus. We’re beginning to see the plurality found within the one God.

"You are worthy, our Lord and God, to receive glory and honor and power, for you created all things, and by your will they were created and have their being." – Revelation 4:11 (the words of the 24 elders to Jesus).

“...Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” – Acts 20:28

Once again, in the verses above Jesus is referred to as theos. In Acts 20:28, we know that Jesus shed His blood for the church, and as one person of the triune God, this action is the action of God. Now let’s look at some common compound references to Jesus:

“...the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ” – Titus 2:13

“...To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours” – 2 Peter 1:1

In the passages above, both “God” and “Savior” are used in reference to Jesus Christ. There is no division of the clause. Scholar Robert Reymond writes, “The two nouns [‘God’ and ‘Savior’] both stand under the regimen of the single definitive article preceding ‘God,’ indicating…that they are to be construed corporately, not separately, or that they have a single referent.” In other words, attempts to divide this clause into a reference to God and a separate reference to Jesus as Savior flies against the Greek grammatical construct. These verses provide additional powerful and clear evidence that Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh God. Let’s now turn our attention to more verses that reveal Jesus to be Jehovah/Yahweh.

“That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved…. for, ‘Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’” – Romans 10:9,13. Note: Paul reveals Jesus to be the same “Lord” referred to in Joel 2:32, which he quotes. In Joel 2:32, “LORD” is Jehovah/Yahweh.

“...that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” – Philippians 2:10-11. Note: “Lord” = Jehovah/Yahweh.

“...now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.” – 1 Peter 2:3. This verse is taken almost identically from Psalms 34:8, where “Lord” is Jehovah/Yahweh. From the verses that follow verse 3, it is clear this is a reference to Jesus.

Another way we know that Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh comes from the fulfillment of an Old Testament prophecy. Zechariah 12:10 says, “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.” This verse is part of an oracle given by Jehovah/Yahweh. This passage starts off in verse 1, “This is the word of the LORD concerning Israel. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the spirit of man within him, declares...” Jehovah/Yahweh prophesies that He will be pierced. It is widely accepted among scholarly circles that this was fulfilled in the crucifixion and spearing of Jesus Christ. This is confirmed in Revelation 1:7 wherein we read concerning Jesus, “Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.” This is important enough to go over again. In Zechariah 12:10, Jehovah/Yahweh prophesies that He (Jehovah/Yahweh) will be pierced, and people will mourn for Him. Jesus Christ is pierced through his hands and feet at his crucifixion, and pierced through the side with a spear while on the cross. Revelation 1:7 confirms this fulfillment of prophecy. Conclusion? Jesus Christ is Jehovah/Yahweh!

Another evidence that Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh comes from His role as Savior. Isaiah 43:11 says, “I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.” Yet Jesus is referred to many times in the New Testament as our Savior (Luke 2:11; John 4:42; Acts 13:23; Eph. 5:23; Phi. 3:20; 1 Tim. 1:1; 2 Tim. 1:10; Tit 1:4; 2:13; 3:6; 2 Pet. 1:1,11; 2:20; 3:2,18; 1 John 4:14).

Jesus caused no small uproar among the Jews of the day because He accepted praise and worship – blasphemous if He were not God! As we have seen, only God is the savior of men. Matthew 21:1-11 describes Jesus’ triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He came riding in on a donkey, in fulfillment of an Old Testament messianic prophecy (Zec. 9:9). As Jesus rode in, we find the crowds that surrounded him shouting “Hosanna to the Son of David!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Hosanna in the highest!” Webster’s 1913 dictionary defined Hosanna as “A Hebrew exclamation of praise to the Lord.” The word is derived from a Hebrew word that meant “Save us,” in a prayer directed to God. This shows that the crowd viewed Jesus as God and Savior. It is important to note that Jesus did not rebuke the crowd for this praise. In verse 15, we find that the chief priests and Pharisees were outraged and indignant at this (because, as we said, this would be blasphemy for a mere man). Children had followed Jesus in to the temple are and were still shouting, “Hosanna to the Son of David!” In verse 16, they asked Jesus if He could hear what the children were saying. No doubt they were shocked that he would not have straightened out the blasphemy of these little urchins. But Jesus did not rebuke the children. Instead, He answered, “Yes. Have you never read, ‘From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise’?” Additionally, in John 9:35-39 we read the following exchange:

Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"

"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."

Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."

Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him. [emphasis added]

Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."

Jesus accepted worship. This is not adoration of a mere prophet, but praise and worship due only to God. Jesus was either God or He was crazy, and there is ample evidence against the latter and in support of the former. Further evidence comes from the fact that Jesus has many of the attributes of God:

Creator (John 1:3, 1 Cor. 8:6; Col 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14)

Unchanging (Heb. 1:10-12; 13:8)

Eternal (John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2)

Omniscient (John 16:30)

Omnipresent (Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11)

It is clear from the Scriptural evidence above that Jesus is God. He is the LORD (Jehovah/Yahweh) of the Old Testament, and therefore is the one true elohim or theos. He shares this role as God with the Father. As we are about to see, He also shares this role with the Holy Spirit.

5. The Holy Spirit is God

Less Scripture is dedicated to the Holy Spirit, but there is enough to conclude that He too is God. In Acts 5:3-4, we see the Holy Spirit being equated with God:

“Then Peter said, ‘Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn't it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn't the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied to men but to God.’” [emphasis added]

Paul clearly and explicitly equated the Holy Spirit with God:

“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” – 2 Corinthians 3:17-18

Additional evidence of the deity of the Holy Spirit comes from the shared attributes of the deity. The Holy Spirit is:

Eternal (Heb. 9:14)

Omniscient (1 Cor. 2:10-11)

Omnipresent (Psa. 139:7)

Savior (Rom. 8:1-27)

In addition to the attributes above, we find the Holy Spirit was involved in creation (Gen. 1:2; Psa. 104:30), the incarnation (Matt. 1:18,20; Luke 1:35), and the resurrection (Rom. 1:4; 8:11). This is ample evidence to show that the Holy Spirit is God. We have now proven Scripturally that there is only one God. We have also proven that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit can each lay claim to being God. However, one can believe in all this, and still subscribe to the erroneous belief of modalism.

Modalists believe that there is only one God, but believe God to be comprised of one Person who simply manifests Himself at different times through Father, Son, or Holy Spirit. In other words, modalists believe that God is one in substance as well as essence – the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not distinct persons. As we shall see, modalism fails because the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are indeed three distinct persons.

6. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct persons.

A. Jesus is not the Father: First, let’s turn our attention to Matthew 28:19, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit”. The grammatical construction of this verse is very revealing with regards to Trinitarian doctrine. First, each person of the Trinity is identified individually with use of the definite article preceding each (the Father…the Son…the Holy Spirit). The use of the definite article for each person of the Trinity identifies each as unique and distinct from the others. Yet at the same time, this verse groups each into a singular entity by use of the singular form “the name of”. What is this name? The singular name of God is Yahweh/Jehovah, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit share that name. Other verses identify the Father and the Son as two separate persons (John 3:17, 35; 5:22-23, 31-32; 8:16-18; 11:41-42; 12:28; 14:31; 17:1-26; Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 15:24-28; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; 4:4; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1-2; 1 Tim. 1:1-2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; Phm. 3; James 1:1; 2 Pet. 1:2; 1 John 4:10; 2 John 3).

B. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit: The first evidence of this is discussed in detail in the preceding paragraph – Matthew 28:19 identifies the Son and the Holy Spirit as separate persons, using definite articles preceding each. Next, Jesus tells us that He would send the Holy Spirit (“When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.” – John 15:26). This verse is revealing in that each person of the Trinity is mentioned as separate individual persons. Key elements in this verse include 1) Jesus will send the Holy Spirit, 2) from the Father, 3) the Holy Spirit will go out from the Father, 4) and will testify about Jesus. Another verse that identifies Jesus and the Holy Spirit separately is John 16:7, “But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.” Here we have two important elements: 1) Jesus will go away, and 2) send the Holy Spirit. Since Jesus arose and ascended in his physical human body, the Spirit He sends is not Jesus Himself. Another important verse is John 14:16, “And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever” (emphasis added). Once again, the elements are here to show that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are separate. Jesus said He would ask the Father. If Jesus were simply a manifestation of the Father, then He would be asking Himself, which sounds neurotic rather than orthodox. The verse also refers to the Holy Spirit as “another Counselor” separate from Jesus.

C. The Father is not the Holy Spirit: Once again, the first bit of evidence is given in Matthew 28:19 as discussed before. John 14:16, and 15:26 also remain as evidence that the Father and Holy Spirit are distinct persons. As we delved into each verse in the preceding paragraph, we won’t do so again. We also find Paul describing in Romans 8:26-27 that the Holy Spirit intercedes for us with the Father. If the Holy Spirit were the same person as the Father, he would not need to intercede with himself.

Now let’s address another Scripture that makes it clear that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three different persons. Luke 3:21-22 covers the baptism of Jesus Christ, “When all the people were being baptized, Jesus was baptized too. And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: ‘You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.’” Each person is described separately here. First, note that Jesus was praying. If Oneness theology were correct, Jesus would be praying to Himself. Once again, that smacks of neurosis. Instead, Jesus was praying to the Father. As He did, the Holy Spirit descended on Jesus in a physical manifestation like a dove. The voice of the Father was then heard from Heaven, speaking to the Son. This highlights that each person of the Trinity is unique and separate.

7. Conclusion:

It is clear from a reading of the Bible that there is only one God, known in the Old Testament as Yahweh/Jehovah. It is clear that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are each God (Yahweh). It is also clear, in contrast to Oneness theology (Unitarian modalism), that each person is separate and distinct from the other. One God in three persons – the Biblical Trinity.

Ontology is important in understanding the Trinity. Ontology is the study of “being.” As James White said, “It is vitally important that we recognize the difference between the words Being and Person....Being is what makes something what it is. Person is what makes someone who he or she is....when speaking of the Trinity, we speak of one what (the Being of God) and three whos (the three divine Persons). Most cultic rejections of the Trinity focus on blurring the distinction.”

Are you still having a difficult time comprehending the triune nature of God? That’s understandable. The laws to which we are bound define our comprehension. God’s nature transcends these laws. If we could fully comprehend God’s nature, he would cease to be Almighty God. He would be lesser than He truly is. I am a devotee of analogies. One analogy I like to use with regards to the Trinity is my computer. My computer consists of input devices (mouse and keyboard), output devices (monitor, printer, speakers), and the central processing unit. These different components form my one computer. This analogy fails to capture the full complexity of the substance of God, but it can help someone to grasp the basic relationship.

It is true, as so many Mormons, Muslims, and Jehovah’s Witness are inclined to point out, that there is no concise, clear teaching of the Trinity in the New Testament or Old Testament. However, by such reasoning, there is also no clear teaching regarding smoking or illicit drug use. Yet by examining Scripture in its greater context, it is clear that our body is the temple of God (1 Cor. 6:19) and Paul urges us to purify ourselves from things which contaminate the body (2 Cor. 7:1). Similarly, by examining the sum of Scripture in immediate and greater context, it is clear that God is triune. He is one God, eternally existent in three divine persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. We must be able to defend this biblical doctrine if we are to effectively contend for the truth of the gospel.
29 posted on 12/20/2004 7:29:35 AM PST by ConservativeStLouisGuy (11th FReeper Commandment: Thou Shalt Not Unnecessarily Excerpt)
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To: telder1
I am not sure I quite understand. Are you saying that no interpretation is necessary to read the Bible?

Christ is the Word Made Flesh. That is a sentence, verbatim, from the Bible.

But the word 'Trinity' does not appear in the Bible. If you believe in the Trinity, then that is your personal interpretation of the verbatim phrase 'the Word made flesh.'It is a theological tradition which was passed down from the earliest Christians.

If a person reads the Bible and thinks the Bible refutes the idea of the Trinity, then that is their personal interpretation. I assure you, Mormons honestly believe they have eternal life, because of their faith in what they read in the Bible. They follow a 4th century theological tradition known as Arianism.

The Holy Spirit did NOT inspire both of them, because the Holy Spirit does not lead people into lies. This is not a small issue, right? Denying the divinity of the Son of God, or worshipping a mere man, is grounds for eternal damnation, wouldn't you say?

Do you think your way is leading to Heaven, and the other way is leading to Hell? By what authority do you say those who deny the Trinity are wrong in their personal interpretation of the Bible?
30 posted on 12/20/2004 11:05:03 AM PST by Lilllabettt
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To: ConservativeStLouisGuy
Merry Christmas to you!
31 posted on 12/20/2004 12:56:31 PM PST by missyme
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To: missyme

Righteous Trinitarian bump.


32 posted on 12/20/2004 1:00:26 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Lilllabettt
I assure you, Mormons honestly believe they have eternal life, because of their faith in what they read in the Bible.

The problem being that Mormons think the Bible is flawed and needs correcting.

33 posted on 12/20/2004 1:04:17 PM PST by Gamecock (Hate Arminianism, Love the Arminian.)
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To: missyme
Go deep…

The Torah begins with a large Beit…

It Was on the Eighth Day

211) Rabbi Yehuda said: The "Beth" has the Image of two roofs and one line which unites them. We learn from this that one of the roofs points to heaven above, which is "Z.A"; whereas the other points toward the earth, which is "Malchut" (Kingdom). The Creator, who is "Yesod" (Foundation) is united with them and is receiving them.

Rabbi Elozor said: The first three upper lights are holy, that is, they are the three pillars which constitute one unity and make up the whole Torah. It is they who open the doors to all treasures, meaning that they bestow bounty to the "Emoonoh" ("Malchut").

The three pillars" house everything, which explains why they are called "House". It is because they are the three pillars of the "Beth", which refer to the three pillars relating to "Z.A". Thus, the three pillars are a house.

This is why the Torah begins with the letter "Beth"; for the "Beth" is actually the Torah and she is the healing balm of the world. Therefore, laboring in the Torah is tantamount to being occupied with the Holy Name.

212) We have learned that the whole Torah is actually an Upper Holy Name. Hence, inasmuch as the Torah is a Holy Name, she begins with the letter "Beth", which is the principle of the Holy Name; that is to say: The "Beth" consists of the three letters called "Vov".

The three "Vovin" of the initial letters of the three words "Vayiso", "Vayovey" and "Vayeit", which symbolize the three "Vovs" of pillars of "Z.A", constitute the three ties that bestow upon the "Emoonoh" ("Malchut").

213) Behold, all those who labor in the Torah are uniting with the Maker, and are crowned with the crowns of the Torah. They are beloved above and below.

GOD, stretches out His right hand to them, which is the light of "Chessed", (Mercy).

http://www.kabbalah.info/engkab/zohar/207.htm

http://www.kabbalah.info/engkab/zohar/index_zohar.htm

The Beit, consists of three Vavs, the three vavs make up the house, they are one unity…

The first three upper lights are holy, that is, they are the three pillars which constitute one unity and make up the whole Torah.

The Shema and the Trinity in the first letter of the Torah.

Everything I learned about God I’ve learned from Jews, everything I’ve learned about Jezebel I’ve learned from Christians.

34 posted on 12/20/2004 2:45:06 PM PST by Jeremiah Jr
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To: Jeremiah Jr

Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad.
Hear, Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord is One.

The trinity does not dispute that...

Kabbalah is not from GOD my friend...


35 posted on 12/20/2004 4:04:53 PM PST by missyme
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To: missyme
Close, you should have posted...

Kabbalah is from GOD.

Look at 2 Thessalonians 2. Rabbi Sha’ul is describing the end of days and the time of the ruler (anti-Christ). Finally he gets around to instructing how the believers are to act…

15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.

The word ‘tradition’ there is kabbalot. The plural form of kabbalah.

The Greek is paradosis {par-ad'-os-is} #3862

1) giving up, giving over

a) the act of giving up

b) the surrender of cities

2) a giving over which is done by word of mouth or in writing, i.e. tradition by instruction, narrative, precept, etc.

a) objectively, that which is delivered, the substance of a teaching

b) of the body of precepts, esp. ritual, which in the opinion of the later Jews were orally delivered by Moses and orally transmitted in unbroken succession to subsequent generations, which precepts, both illustrating and expanding the written law, as they did were to be obeyed with equal reverence

AV - tradition 12, ordinance 1; 13

And that word is all over the New Testament, Yeshua to the Pharisees, You make the word of God of no effect by your kabbalot! Your traditions! Mark 7:9, 13

http://www.inner.org/stages/stages2.htm

And by the way, what was Rabbi Sha’ul (a second generation Pharisee) doing/learning for three years after his conversion?

Galatians 1

15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, 16 to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the Gentiles, I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me; but I went to Arabia, and returned again to Damascus.

18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and remained with him fifteen days. 19 But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord's brother. 20 (Now concerning the things which I write to you, indeed, before God, I do not lie.)

Hanging out with the Essenes? BTW, John the Baptist came from that group.

http://www.kolumbus.fi/hjussila/rsla/Paul/paul17.html

Ever learning but never able… Ever learning but never able… Ever learning but never able…

36 posted on 12/21/2004 1:13:27 PM PST by Jeremiah Jr
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