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Telling Secrets on the Vatican (re: "Third Secret" of Fatima)
World Net Daily ^ | July 2, 2000 | Jon E. Dougherty

Posted on 02/15/2005 8:36:21 PM PST by Dajjal

[N.B. click on the Source to get photos and links in the article. --Dajjal]


Telling Secrets on the Vatican
Controversy Erupts Over Release of Final Fatima Mystery

by Jon E. Dougherty
WorldNetDaily exclusive
Sunday, July 2, 2000


A Catholic priest who says he has seen the original text of the "third secret" of Fatima disputes the official interpretation of the secret released by the Vatican.

The Catholic Church says the Virgin Mary passed the secrets of Fatima to three Portuguese children in 1917. (See explanatory sidebar.) The third secret is the final one to be released.

[image]
A photo, circa 1917, of the three Portuguese children who the Vatican says witnessed appearances by the Virgin Mary for several months and who were given three "secrets" to reveal at later dates.

For decades, speculation about the third secret has resulted in a spate of theories that it predicted the end of modern times -- the world as it is now known -- as well as other apocalyptic visions of despair. (See excerpts of the three secrets.)

According to the Vatican's interpretation, however, the third secret differed substantially from what it was believed to contain by many in the so-called "mainstream" community and Church. (See history of the secrets.)

Church traditionalists say it also differs from information -- much of it leaked over the years -- about what they know and believe is contained in the secret, which was finally published more than 40 years after the Vatican was supposed to release it.

Now that it has finally been published, Catholics in the traditionalist faction say the version published differs from the original. Critics include a priest who says he has seen the original third secret text.

[image]
Rev. Dr. Gommar A. De Pauw

Rev. Dr. Gommar A. De Pauw, founder of the Catholic Traditionalist Movement, told WorldNetDaily earlier this week that while attending the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council -- held between 1962 and 1965 -- he was shown a copy of the third secret.

Fr. De Pauw, a Belgian-born priest who attended the Council as an adviser, said that although he had to "let the Vatican's interpretation sink in," his first impression of the 27-page document explaining the third secret and placing it in context of the other two was, "Thanks, but no thanks."

Missing from the Vatican's explanation, he said, was a portion of the secret that predicted the fall of the modern Catholic Church.

"While at the (Second Vatican) Council, I was given the text -- the supposed text -- of the third secret of Fatima," Fr. De Pauw said. "Journal reporters -- journalists -- gave it to me" and a few others in attendance.

"They left it for me in a strange way, really," he said. "At my desk, in front of me, in the press room." Besides serving the Vatican in various functions and manners over the years, Fr. De Pauw said he was also an "accredited journalist," which, he said, explained his presence in the press area.

Fr. De Pauw, who couldn't remember the reporter's name, said, "word got out among the journalists" that a copy of the text was "floating around."

"Reporters would increasingly ask me, 'Is this real? Is it genuine?'" he said.

But when he attempted to ask key people in the Vatican about the text, "they were always reluctant to say anything -- particularly because, supposedly, the only ones who had seen it were the pope, John XXIII, and Cardinal [Alfredo] Ottaviani," who headed the Vatican's Holy Office.

"That text -- which I accepted as authentic -- was totally different from what they are coming up with now," De Pauw said. "It's going to take a while before these 27 pages sink in and it's not clear to me what conclusion I should reach. To me, it demands, almost, a total rejection of the whole so-called Fatima devotion. But that's my first impression."

Nevertheless, Fr. De Pauw said, the main impetus of the "original" secret he viewed over 35 years ago was a prediction by the Holy Virgin that there would be, mainly, "an unbelievable, total doctrinal and moral ... spiritual ... collapse of the establishment Catholic Church" -- something Vatican officials are "not going to admit," he said.

"I do not accept [the Vatican's] interpretation," he added.

A spokesman for the U.S. Catholic Conference told WorldNetDaily that its parent organization, The National Conference of Catholic Bishops, "accepted fully" the Vatican's explanation and interpretation of both the third secret and the two which proceeded it.

The third secret avoids any mention of a collapse of the Church and, instead, focuses on "penance." While the translated text offered by the Vatican said that "the Holy Father" -- the pope -- "was killed by a group of soldiers" as he and other religious figures within the Church climbed "up a steep mountain," the interpretation focuses on an encouraging message.

According to the Vatican's interpretation, "other key words are 'my Immaculate Heart [Virgin Mary] will triumph,' and 'the Heart open to God,' purified by contemplation of God, is stronger than guns and weapons of every kind. The 'fiat' of Mary, the word of her heart, has changed the history of the world."

Fr. De Pauw admits that his statements "are a little radical," but, he said, not without merit.

Besides the differences in text, Fr. De Pauw said the Vatican's summary of all three secrets "also does not make any reference to the 'Miracle of the Sun,' which took place Oct. 13, 1917." He said that event -- which was described by observers as a "dancing sun" -- was "witnessed not simply by the three children but by thousands of people, including dozens and dozens of very skeptical journalists. But no one is making any reference to that."

Fr. De Pauw said, in fact, that Vatican officials had, at times, actually attempted to downplay the event "as nothing more than the imagination of three visionary children."

Newspapers of the time, however, did cover the event, he said.

Other prominent Catholic groups were perplexed by the Vatican's delays in releasing the text of the third secret.

"We're puzzled as to why we must wait for an official commentary," said Fr. Paul Kramer, a priest at the Fatima Center, a Canada-based Catholic organization that promotes the Message of Fatima. "The first two parts of the secret are quite clear in what they say and predict. It does not seem likely that the third part is so obscure that it requires deciphering by a team of experts."

"Our Lady of Fatima did not speak in riddles," he said in a statement.

The late Catholic author Fr. Malachi Martin has also alluded to the secrets in his numerous best-selling books that were labeled fiction, "but contained 80 percent truth," according to friend and advisor, Fr. Charles Fiore, who lives in the Diocese of Madison, Wis., and belongs to the priestly fraternity of St. Peter.

In an interview last year, Fr. Fiore told WorldNetDaily that Fr. Martin's last book, which was not yet finished before he died last July 29 in New York City, was "a nonfiction piece about Vatican power as the Church approaches the third millennium."

Regarding that book, "Primacy: How the Institutional Roman Catholic Church Became a Creature of the New World Order," Fr. Fiore said Fr. Martin believed it would be "his most controversial and important work."

Far from being fiction, Fr. Fiore said, the book was dealing exclusively "with power and the papacy," and would have "analyzed the revolutionary shift in the ancient dogma of primacy that lies at the heart of what many now see as the first breakdown of papal power in two millennia."

The book would have highlighted Malachi Martin's uncanny ability to see through and predict the hidden geopolitics of the Vatican and its "complex global dealings with governments and nations," Fr. Fiore said.

"The battle that concerns Martin is the fundamental survival of belief in God -- and the struggle that supercedes our individual faiths is the one between us and those who would destroy all faiths," wrote author Alan Caruba for The Jewish Future -- an observation that keenly matches Fr. De Pauw's interpretation and, oddly, portions of the version of the third secret interpreted by the Vatican, Fr. Fiore observed.

Last month, however, the Vatican pre-empted at least some speculation about the contents of the final secret by announcing, finally, its impending release -- an act ordered by Pope John Paul II, Vatican officials said.

Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano announced in Fatima, Portugal, May 13 that the Holy See intended to release the text of the third secret. The pope had gone to Fatima to beatify -- or make saints of -- the two shepherd children who, with Sr. Lucia, received the three secrets over 85 years ago.

During his statement, which was delivered in Portuguese, Cardinal Sodano said the third secret contained "a prophetic vision similar to those found in Sacred Scripture, which do not describe with photographic clarity the details of future events, but rather synthesize and condense against a unified background events spread out over time in a succession and a duration which are not specified.

"As a result," he added, "the text must be interpreted in a symbolic key."

Offering a glimpse of what the secret contained, Cardinal Sodano said, "The vision of Fatima concerns above all the war waged by atheist systems against the Church and Christians and it describes the immense suffering endured by the witnesses to the faith in the last century of the second millennium.

"It is an interminable Way of the Cross led by the popes of the twentieth century," he added, with no mention of any text that symbolically or otherwise described the version Fr. De Pauw has claimed to see.

John Paul credits the Virgin Mary with saving his life after an assassination attempt May 13, 1981 in St. Peter's Square by a Turkish nationalist -- 64 years to the day after the Holy Mother first appeared to the three Portuguese children. And, the Vatican says, he believes because of her divine intervention, the vision of a pope being killed by gunfire in the third secret was thwarted.

John Paul wrote shortly after the attempt on his life that it was "a motherly hand which guided the bullet's path," enabling the "dying Pope" to halt "at the threshold of death."

(See a list of the prophecies relayed to the Fatima children.)


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events
KEYWORDS: fatima; lucia; lucy; secret; sisterlucia; sisterlucy; thirdsecret
See also the author's July 5, 2000 essay:
What Does "Third Secret" Mean?>br> Official Version of Catholic Church's
Fatima Prophesies Debated

1 posted on 02/15/2005 8:36:21 PM PST by Dajjal
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To: Dajjal

Thank you for posting this.

"A Catholic priest who says he has seen the original text of the "third secret" of Fatima disputes the official interpretation of the secret released by the Vatican."

As do I.


2 posted on 02/15/2005 8:56:03 PM PST by sageb1
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To: sageb1
I'm sure that the first person the Vatican would show the text of the 3rd secret to is a nutty priest who eventually broke with the Church over the Novus Ordo.

Gommar DePauw is simply not credible.

3 posted on 02/15/2005 8:58:23 PM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: Dajjal; Land of the Irish; thor76; Viva Christo Rey; murphE; Gerard.P

Thanks Dajjal.


4 posted on 02/15/2005 9:11:15 PM PST by Canticle_of_Deborah
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To: Dajjal
Cult!!!

If its not biblical, it isn't christian. Mary was a human not a deity.... and she was not around by 1917...

5 posted on 02/15/2005 9:59:06 PM PST by GeronL (The Old Media is at war with the New Media...... We are all Matt Drudges now.)
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To: Canticle_of_Deborah; CouncilofTrent; murphE; Gerard.P

Fr. Gommar DePauw is the founder of the Catholic Traditionalist movement. He was the first to see the error of the ways in which churchment were heading in the 60s.

The late Fr. Malachi Martin was actually given a private reading of the entire text of the third Secret - the exact details of which he took to the grave with him. He did give hints of the general outline/general concepts in his writings. But oney after such were clearly given away by Pope JPII & Cardinal Ratzinger. He was under an oath of secrecy as to the complete and exact contents of the Secret.


6 posted on 02/15/2005 10:05:34 PM PST by thor76 (Vade retro, Draco! Crux sacra sit mihi lux !)
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To: GeronL

be gone satan.


7 posted on 02/15/2005 11:15:10 PM PST by DBeers
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To: DBeers
lol.

More like protestant

8 posted on 02/15/2005 11:22:15 PM PST by GeronL (The Old Media is at war with the New Media...... We are all Matt Drudges now.)
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To: GeronL

And your point is...?


9 posted on 02/15/2005 11:37:57 PM PST by dsc
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To: GeronL

"If its not biblical, it isn't christian."

Bzzzzzzt, sorry, wrongola. Thank you for playing.

"Mary was a human not a deity.... and she was not around by 1917..."

So, you don't believe that Jesus came to bring us life everlasting? No soul? We just cease to be at physical death?


10 posted on 02/15/2005 11:39:39 PM PST by dsc
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To: Dajjal

"Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano announced in Fatima, Portugal, May 13 that the Holy See intended to release the text of the third secret."

Sorry, that just doesn't get it--especially with Blathergate so fresh in memory.

I want to see the original paper in Sr. Lucy's own handwriting, and have it translated by someone of my own choosing.


11 posted on 02/15/2005 11:42:37 PM PST by dsc
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To: sinkspur

He apparently saw the Secret at Vatican II, before he broke with the Church over the Novus Ordo. And anyway, just because of that everything he says must be a lie?


12 posted on 02/16/2005 7:05:19 AM PST by VinceJS
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To: VinceJS
Why would somebody in the Vatican show this priest the 3rd Secret?

Don't look at what people say; look at why they say it.

13 posted on 02/16/2005 7:09:49 AM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: sinkspur

It's not that I consider Fr. de Pauw inherently credible or an authority on anything. But, looking at why people say things, the "official" Vatican version must also be held suspect - they would certainly have a motive to hush up the Third Secret if it foretold major spiritual calamities and mass apostasy in the Church.


14 posted on 02/16/2005 7:20:53 AM PST by VinceJS
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To: VinceJS
But, looking at why people say things, the "official" Vatican version must also be held suspect - they would certainly have a motive to hush up the Third Secret if it foretold major spiritual calamities and mass apostasy in the Church.

I think arguing over the 3rd Fatima secret is a colossal waste of time, which is why I am now done with it.

15 posted on 02/16/2005 7:22:46 AM PST by sinkspur ("Preach the gospel. If necessary, use words.")
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To: sinkspur
Why would somebody in the Vatican show this priest the 3rd Secret?

I'll forgive you for not reading all the WND article. It's a joke of a news source.

However, to answer your question, nobody in the Vatican showed it to him. He was not shown the 3rd Secret. He was shown a supposed copy of it. That is, not the original.

And who showed it to him? Well, here's what the article says:

"While at the (Second Vatican) Council, I was given the text -- the supposed text -- of the third secret of Fatima," Fr. De Pauw said. "Journal reporters -- journalists -- gave it to me" and a few others in attendance.

Bold emphasis mine.

Get the picture?

A group of reporters approached him and said "Hey, wanna see the 3rd Secret?"

Typical WND trash, although not something which would bother the FR "Whack Pack", of course.

16 posted on 02/16/2005 7:49:10 AM PST by marshmallow
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To: GeronL

Cult!!! If its not biblical, it isn't christian. Mary was a human not a deity.... and she was not around by 1917...

So says the ignorant peanut gallery. I suppose Elijah and Moses couldn't have shown up on Mt. Tabor as well. You do not know Jesus Christ. You only know what the Devil will allow you to know. I would ask further for proof as to "if its not biblical, it isn't Christian." one of the silliest statements I've read in a long time. Since I suppose in your mind the bible fell from the sky.

17 posted on 02/16/2005 8:13:27 AM PST by Gerard.P (If you've lost your faith, you don't know you've lost it. ---Fr. Malachi Martin R.I.P.)
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To: sinkspur
Lots of speculation going on here:

Sister Lucia, last remaining witness of Fatima apparitions, dies at 97

SISTER LUCIA RIP

LAST OF CHILDREN WHO CLAIMED TO SEE VIRGIN MARY DIES AT 97

Last child who claimed to see "Virgin Mary" dies

Virgin Mary Child Dies (Lucia of Fatima)

Mourning for Fatima seer (Portugal declares day of mourning)

Third Secret of Fatima is not fully revealed.

Sister Lucia, last remaining witness of Fatima apparitions, dies at 97

Sr. Lucia, Fatima, and Islam

Mystery Fatima: Death of Lucia Accents Famed Secrets & Area's Hidden History

"No More Secrets," Visionary Said in 2001 (Sr. Lucia Confirmed Russia Consecrated to Mary)

Papal praise at Sister Lucia's funeral

Our Lady of Fatima, ‘counterrevolutionary’ and ‘ecumenical’

Questions ... Regarding The Third Secret of Fatima

Telling Secrets on the Vatican (re: "Third Secret" of Fatima)

18 posted on 02/16/2005 8:51:43 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: marshmallow

**Typical WND trash,**

Tend to agree with you. Secular site.


19 posted on 02/16/2005 8:54:51 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Dajjal
"Missing from the Vatican's explanation, he said, was a portion of the secret that predicted the fall of the modern Catholic Church."

This meaning to the third secret seems to be popping up a lot lately, and I don't think I have noticed it before.

If I hadn't been concerned about the third secret in the past that would be understandable, but I have been an outspoken skeptic of it's release for a long time, and have had to back up my position with a lot of research. I haven't seen that claim associated with the secret before. I'm not saying it wasn't there, just that I never noticed it in all the different opinions I've read.

20 posted on 02/16/2005 9:04:09 AM PST by Arguss (Take the narrow road)
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To: sinkspur

Why is DePauw not credible? His version matches reality. It fully explains why the Vatican would have kept the secret under wraps for so long. It is the published--and self-serving--interpretation released by the Vatican which actually lacks credibility.


21 posted on 02/16/2005 12:48:03 PM PST by ultima ratio
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To: Dajjal; Canticle_of_Deborah

Courtesy of the Taipei Times:

"The body of Sister Lucia, the last of three children who claimed to have seen the Virgin Mary in 1917 in Fatima, central Portugal, lies in a chapel of the Convent of Carmelitas in Coimbra on Monday. The Catholic church has built a shrine in Fatima which is visited each year by millions of people from around the world."

22 posted on 02/17/2005 1:31:52 PM PST by Viva Christo Rey
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To: Viva Christo Rey

She doesn't look like a 90+ old woman!


23 posted on 02/17/2005 1:58:42 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - Tolkien)
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