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Any Ex-Church of Christ at FR

Posted on 05/28/2005 1:04:07 PM PDT by jer33 3

Does anyone have a personal testimony of how they left the mainline or International/Boston Church of Christ? And are you familiar with the doctrinal teachings?


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: boston; bostonchurch; bostonchurchofchrist; bostonmovement; churchofchrist; coc; internationalchurch
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To: Quester

In order to explain the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles at Pentecost in Acts 2, Peter refers to a prophecy in Joel. This prophecy said that the Lord would pour out His "spirit upon all flesh" (Joel 2:28). This pouring out of the spirit is not linked to salvation. How do I know that? Because the prophecy goes on to say "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered" (Joel 2:32). Salvation would require action upon the part of the person in order to be saved.

In Acts 10, Peter says that the reception of the Holy Spirit by Cornelius was like the reception of the Holy Spirit that they had received. He was pointing back to Pentecost. If the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was not linked to salvation at Pentecost, then it was not linked to salvation in this instance either.


561 posted on 06/10/2005 1:15:36 PM PDT by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
In order to explain the pouring out of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles at Pentecost in Acts 2, Peter refers to a prophecy in Joel. This prophecy said that the Lord would pour out His "spirit upon all flesh" (Joel 2:28). This pouring out of the spirit is not linked to salvation. How do I know that? Because the prophecy goes on to say "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be delivered" (Joel 2:32). Salvation would require action upon the part of the person in order to be saved.

In Acts 10, Peter says that the reception of the Holy Spirit by Cornelius was like the reception of the Holy Spirit that they had received. He was pointing back to Pentecost. If the outpouring of the Holy Spirit was not linked to salvation at Pentecost, then it was not linked to salvation in this instance either.


Then why would Peter link this manifestation to the salvation of Cornelius and household ?
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
... and in Peter's retelling ...
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?

562 posted on 06/10/2005 1:43:22 PM PDT by Quester (When in doubt ... trust God!)
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To: Quester

Peter never said they were saved because they had received the Holy Spirit in the same manner that the Apostles did. He realized that Gentiles were to be accepted, like the Jews, and salvation was available to them. That is why he commanded them to be baptized.


563 posted on 06/10/2005 1:47:32 PM PDT by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
Peter never said they were saved because they had received the Holy Spirit in the same manner that the Apostles did. He realized that Gentiles were to be accepted, like the Jews, and salvation was available to them. That is why he commanded them to be baptized.

Without even any testimony (i.e. confession) on their part ?

Peter perceived that they were baptized with the Holy Spirit and, thus, believed.

564 posted on 06/10/2005 2:17:20 PM PDT by Quester (When in doubt ... trust God!)
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To: Quester

Belief is not all that is required for salvation.


565 posted on 06/10/2005 2:23:20 PM PDT by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
Belief is not all that is required for salvation.

So ... we're back to the original question.

If you would, give me the steps to salvation which took place for Cornelius and family, as recorded in the scriptures.

566 posted on 06/10/2005 2:37:49 PM PDT by Quester (When in doubt ... trust God!)
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To: asformeandformyhouse; PetroniusMaximus
Unfortunately I am leaving on vacation tomorrow and will be gone for a few weeks (unfortunate for our discussion that is - very fortunate for me).

Have a great time and safe travels: -)
567 posted on 06/10/2005 3:17:15 PM PDT by jer33 3
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To: Quester

It is obvious from the text that they believed and were baptized. Since we also know that repentance and confession are required, from other passages of Scripture, those two acts would have taken place as well.


568 posted on 06/13/2005 7:58:36 AM PDT by jkl1122
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--


569 posted on 02/18/2006 5:18:38 PM PST by GraceVersusWorks
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To: jer33 3

I hold up this entire inane string of drivel as exhibit A of what is wrong with the Church of Christ.

I grew up in the Church of Christ -- actually, "had it inflicted on me" is a better choice of words. When I was a high school senior a church lady backed me up against a wall and said I'd lose my soul by going away to the state university. I guess she was right. As a freshman I was working on a paper in the library and came across the US Census figures on religious groups. In my innocence I looked for Church of Christ at the top of the page with the Catholics and Methodists and Baptists. The church I knew was listed at the bottom of the page in the "Cults and Sects" heading.

The Church of Christ is the most anti-intellectual, hurtful and devisive cultural institution in my part of the country (Middle Tennessee). The branches of my family that have practiced COC the hardest are also our most unhappy, bitter and unstable people. I've witnessed hypocrisy, mental and physical abuse, mistreatment of women, sexual shenanigans, substance abuse, and just general downright meanness for generations. I believe it was Molly Ivins -- who was right about nearly nothing else -- who was dead on target with her line, "Church of Christ will cut you."

I struggled for years to get away from the predations of these piffle obsessionists. My wife and I are both COC refugees, and we decided early on that no Church of Christ insanity was going to be visited on our children. We dug a generational fire break to protect our two children, who are thriving, succeeding and flourishing in ways their Bible-hounded cousins cannot.

My parents have basically accepted that I'm done with the whole foolish business. In fact, if I had a magic wand I could wave just once and fix the most problems in this part of the country, I would make the whole Church of Christ disappear, root, branch and history. My hidebound mother-in-law still doesn't get it, and is still pestering away.

The bottom line of what is wrong with the Church of Christ is this: the fixation on personal salvation leaves adherents with a lack of "sense of the other person." Throughout my dealings with these people -- literally thousands of them -- I have found a profound lack of compassion or empathy.

The conventional wisdom on members of the Church of Christ is that "they think they are the only ones who think they are going to heaven."

That's not quite right. They are convinced no one else even has a shot, but in their heart of hearts they suspect they are probably not going to make it to heaven, either. In their attempt to read the Bible as "God's Code Annnotated," they come away dazed, confused and discouraged. They have been taught since the cradle that God will send them to hell for the least little trifle, so they live in fear and dread. So, in frustration, they pester each other to distraction over silly things like whether they should keep the glass communion cups or risk everlasting fire by switching to plastic. I saw a church split over that very question.

In the end it is a movement of the miserable. If you are not miserable when you go in a Church of Christ, you will be before you leave. The whole thing is just nuts. It's the Tennessee Taliban.

I am one of the lucky few who escaped fairly sane. My advice to anyone who is trying to get away is this: just put the Bible down for a while and back away. Give yourself permission to take a break. After a while, the ringing in your ears will die down.

If there is a God with all the power and intellect to create you and the whole universe, surely that being is way too advanced to be obsessed with such chicken droppings as whether you use a piano at church.


570 posted on 03/13/2007 10:58:48 AM PDT by Chartervol
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To: Chartervol

Chartervol,

I am surprised you found this thread! It seems like such a long time ago when I posted it. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. I hope that you have since found a healthy place for you and your family to worship God. ---jer333


571 posted on 03/13/2007 12:21:42 PM PDT by jer33 3
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To: jer33 3
I think a co-worker of mine got sucked in to the International CoC several years ago. If it's the same group, their big push was "discipling"...If you're not discipling people you don't go to heaven.

Of course, their idea of discipling was basically taking over your life - mandatory early-morning Bible study, "accountability partners" who told you what and how to believe. Seemed like a cult to me.

The guy approached me one day, knowing I was a professing Christian, and asked me to attend a Bible study over lunch. Of course he was there with his mentor and they proceeded to cherry-pick scriptures and tell me that I wasn't a real Christian disciple since I wasn't "discipling" anyone else.

572 posted on 03/13/2007 12:32:19 PM PDT by opus86
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To: jer33 3

It’s funny how old threads keep getting noticed, isn’t it? Blessings to you from someone in cyberspace.


573 posted on 09/10/2007 5:02:38 PM PDT by ColoCdn (Neco eos omnes, Deus suos agnoset)
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To: ColoCdn

Thank you, ColoCdn. God bless you.


574 posted on 09/10/2007 10:01:23 PM PDT by jer33 3
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To: jer33 3

Hello jer33 3

I just wanted to reply..I have not read through all 500+ pages, but only the first page. As you can guess from my handle, I am a Boston Church of Christ member. I am not sure what you are looking to find out about us, or if you have any questions, but I figured I would respond as I don’t think any BCOC members are a part of FR.

I figure I will tell you a little about myself: I am in my late twenties, male, black, and I have been a member of that church for the past 6 years. I studied the bible and was baptized there in 2003.

Yes, there has been some abuse I have experienced here from my discipleship partner. He swore at me one time and threatened me. He was struggling spiritually though, and decided to leave our church soon after. I have not heard abuse preached from the pulpit though. There are times when we exercize church discipline on an individual (in accord with Matthew 18). For instance there was a case of a brother that was abusing his girlfriend, and having premarital sex with her. He was dis-fellowshipped and for the most part we don’t talk to him anymore. I personally was dis-fellowshipped because of doctrinal matters but I have been restored after wrestling with my faith on the issue. It is something that is only done in the most extreme of circumstances.

For what it’s worth, becoming a Christian has changed my life. Before I lead a life selfishness, greed, self-abuse, greed, sexual immorality etc. I came from a home where I and my mother were abused. Now however I am a changed man, and I am not ashamed that to say that not only was it the Lord Jesus that changed me, but His body, the Boston Church of Christ that has helped as well. I am a college graduate and will soon be attending gradschool this summer. I have just started dating a beautiful woman (also in the church), and we will be getting married hopefully when she finishes law school. I am employed full time, and I do tithe 10 percent of my income to the church..not because I am forced but because I desire to see the work of the church continued. I am what you would call a leader of a small group of singles people actually.

I just started dating a few weeks ago and held a woman’s hand romantically for the first time in 6 years...I have been abstinent for the past 6 years as well. Again, not because I was being forced but because sexual immorality is a sin that will offend God (Galatians 5:19) and get you dis-fellowshipped (1st Corinthians 5) from the congregation.

I do believe baptism and repentance is a requirement for salvation (Acts 2:38) but I also believe faith and confessing Jesus as Lord (Romans 10:9) are requirements too. I also believe actually hearing the word is essential as well (Romans 10:14).

I don’t disagree with people that say our congregation has done abusive things. That’s well documented and factual. A lot of things changed though, after 2003. Kip Mckean no longer leads, and his abusive discipleship practices have been put to an end. We no longer preach we are the only church. We no longer preach you HAVE to be at every service or midweek to be saved. My girlfriend, because of her work schedule often misses midweek and is still a member. No one turns up if they have the flu to church, etc. Anyone who says we preach anything differently is a liar, to put it plainly.

Sometimes there are problems. It’s true, I won’t deny it. I once had to correct a brother that was telling a sister to “shut up” and being disrespectful towards her. We sat down together as Christ said we should and discussed the matter like in Matthew 18. He got the message and apologized. If he didn’t it would have gone further. People have issues, psychological and otherwise. Those don’t change when you become a Christian. you need love and acceptance to get over those.

One thing, I will say though, in our defense, because we are so “strict” about 1st Timothy 4:16, widespread problems you find in other churches, never will occur in ours. Such as:

Widespread Child Abuse:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/700708/posts

Acceptance of Homosexuality:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2294710/posts

Preaching “Race Centered” theology:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2089147/posts

False doctrine, making up own scripture,weird practices: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2284782/posts

Etc, etc.

These things are unheard of in the Boston Church of Christ, and if these things do happen, it is by individuals who are doing them in secret and are struggling spiritually. If any of us did find out the problem WILL be dealt with believe me...in accordance with scripture of course. Why do I say all this? Well, I think we need to have a healthy perspective here. I can’t see someone leaving our church for the Catholic church because the Catholic church is somewhat “better” and less abusive than what they experienced here. Based one what I know and what has been published and verified in public and private, that does not make much sense to me.

Anyway, those are my two cents. Those that wish to respond please do. I am making myself available for questions, comments, insults, etc. It’s what I do. Take care and God bless.


575 posted on 02/27/2010 1:36:52 PM PST by BCOCMEMBER
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To: BCOCMEMBER

Dear BCOCMember,

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed response. What encourages me the most from your post is the beautiful display of Christ’s redemptive work in your life and that you seem to follow Him out of love and reverence versus obligation. May the Lord pour out a double portion of His wisdom and favor over you, giving you spiritual insight, discernment and understanding. As you receive His perfect love in abundance, increase in understanding of His goodness, and as as you walk in Truth your ministry to others will continue to be fruitful.

God bless you,

Jer33 3


576 posted on 02/28/2010 6:03:08 AM PST by jer33 3
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