Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults" now online!
Prydain ^ | 7/06/2005 | Will

Posted on 07/06/2005 7:28:43 AM PDT by sionnsar

If you have been looking for an online resource text to help you with apologetics--specifically that branch of apologetics dealing with the cults--here is an excellent resource: Dr. Walter Martin's renowned work The Kingdom of the Cults is now online. This is well worth your time and I think you will find it most helpful; Dr. Martin was known as "the father of Christian cult apologetics," and was founder and director of the Christian Research Institute in California. In our day when cults have become ever more prominent in the Western countries, this is truly a valuable resource.

This site also has the Handbook on Apologetics by Josh McDowell available as well, and if you are thinking about more general issues in apologetics, this may be helpful also.


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS:
[Interestingly, just before I saw this I was skimming the devil inside over at Sydney Anglicans Network, about a "‘cult-like’ church-within-a-church." Now you have it all. --sionnsar]
1 posted on 07/06/2005 7:28:43 AM PDT by sionnsar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: ahadams2; anselmcantuar; Agrarian; coffeecup; Paridel; keilimon; Hermann the Cherusker; ...
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail sionnsar if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-7 pings/day).
This list is pinged by sionnsar and newheart.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15

2 posted on 07/06/2005 7:29:06 AM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Thanks for this post!! I've owned two copies of "Kingdom of the Cults". One, my grandmother, a Jehovah's Witness, destroyed, I think. At least it disappeared while she was visiting. A later edition, I lent to a friend who showed it to a Mormon friend, who tore it up in front of him.

You know it's good if it provokes that kind of reaction.


3 posted on 07/06/2005 7:36:23 AM PDT by chesley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

FYI - www.waltermartin.com has a listening library of Dr. Martin's tapes which is changed monthly. 2 or 3 times a year they also make the full 4-tape sets of "How to witness to Mormons" and "How to witness to a Jehovah's Witness" available for listening online.


4 posted on 07/06/2005 7:44:47 AM PDT by ZGuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ZGuy
www.waltermartin.com

Very interesting! Thanks.

5 posted on 07/06/2005 10:09:10 AM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Wow, thanks.

Bookmarking.


6 posted on 07/06/2005 10:12:54 AM PDT by k2blader (Was it wrong to kill Terri Shiavo? YES - 83.8%. FR Opinion Poll.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Thanks,
Chapter 8 on the Theosophical Society is very accurate.
Most people do not realize how much influence the Theosophical Society has on "New Age" religion.


7 posted on 07/06/2005 12:51:23 PM PDT by pro610 (Faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains.Praise Jesus Christ!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Cool, thanks. I just picked up a copy at a used book store. Its still pretty good but I could have done without the chapter on Father Divine (who the heck is that????)


8 posted on 07/06/2005 2:03:12 PM PDT by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Walter Martin was a vicious anti Catholic bigot!


9 posted on 07/06/2005 2:42:48 PM PDT by Macoraba
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Macoraba

Are you referring to the church which says that only if you submit to Rome and its traditions can person be saved? hmm


10 posted on 07/06/2005 2:47:03 PM PDT by amosmoses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Macoraba
His book "Kingdom of the Cults" wasn't anti-Catholic.
11 posted on 07/06/2005 2:56:10 PM PDT by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: escapefromboston

His book may not have been anti Catholic but the man was!


12 posted on 07/06/2005 3:11:39 PM PDT by Macoraba
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: amosmoses; Macoraba
Are you referring to the church which says that only if you submit to Rome and its traditions can person be saved? hmm

Nah, Mac is referring to the Catholics who believe this:

169 Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: "We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation." Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.

You must be thinking of some other church if it says submit to Rome. Elementary geography shows us one must leave the seven hills of Rome behind and cross the Tiber to get to the Vatican.

13 posted on 07/06/2005 3:15:23 PM PDT by siunevada
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Thanks for the posts and links. We have "Kingdom of Cults" in our library, too.


14 posted on 07/06/2005 3:16:37 PM PDT by jer33 3
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Macoraba
Walter Martin was a vicious anti Catholic bigot!

Did not know that about Walter Martin but I do know that Kingdom of Cults barely references the Catholic Church at all, except incidentally.
15 posted on 07/06/2005 4:34:25 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: amosmoses

If you can't see the difference between the Catholic Church and a heretical cult, then I don't really know what else to say.


16 posted on 07/06/2005 4:35:21 PM PDT by Conservative til I die
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Macoraba
Walter Martin was a vicious anti Catholic bigot!

Assuming what you say is true (I didn't see Catholics listed in his book), does that invalidate everything he has to say here? What's your point? That all those he lists as cults in this book are not cults and therefore there is zero value in this book?

17 posted on 07/06/2005 5:15:50 PM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

bttt


18 posted on 07/06/2005 6:13:43 PM PDT by lunarbicep ("Only in America do we have drive up ATM's with braille on them")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Bookmark.


19 posted on 07/06/2005 8:04:43 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: escapefromboston

Father Divine (who the heck is that????)

WHAT! You haven't seen the photos of black people in the 1930's and 40's holding posters saying 'FATHER DEVINE IS GOD"?


20 posted on 07/06/2005 9:37:09 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (IN GOD IS OUR TRUST! from the National Anthem, last verse.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: escapefromboston

Father Divine (who the heck is that????)

WHAT! You haven't seen the photos of black people in the 1930's and 40's holding posters saying 'FATHER DIVINE IS GOD"?

Repost due to my incompetent spelling.


21 posted on 07/06/2005 9:38:26 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (IN GOD IS OUR TRUST! from the National Anthem, last verse.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Macoraba

""Walter Martin was a vicious anti Catholic bigot!""

Didn't you see his elequent debate with a Fr. Paqua back in the 1980's on the John Ankerberg Show?


22 posted on 07/06/2005 9:41:33 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (IN GOD IS OUR TRUST! from the National Anthem, last verse.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: drstevej; OrthodoxPresbyterian; CCWoody; Wrigley; Gamecock; Jean Chauvin; jboot; AZhardliner; ...
GRPL FYI Ping


23 posted on 07/07/2005 5:51:05 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Nice" people aren't beaten to a bloody pulp, nailed onto a cross and then left to suffocate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Macoraba
Walter Martin was a vicious anti Catholic bigot!

Could you name four or five leading scholars who, through their study of the Bible and, by contrast, Roman Catholic dogma, have become convinced that the Roman Catholic Church is a false church with a false gospel, but whom you would not categorize as "vicious bigots"?

Dan
Biblical Christianity BLOG

24 posted on 07/07/2005 5:59:40 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Conservative til I die

huh? Where did I ever say that?


25 posted on 07/07/2005 6:07:38 AM PDT by amosmoses
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Macoraba
Walter Martin was a vicious anti Catholic bigot!

He was a protestant.

I suspect you feel that anyone who rejects Catholic Theology or teachings and publicly states his reasons is a viscious anti-Catholic bigot.

26 posted on 07/07/2005 6:12:25 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar
This site also has the Handbook on Apologetics by Josh McDowell available as well, and if you are thinking about more general issues in apologetics, this may be helpful also.... Now you have it all. --sionnsar

I have a very strong suspicion that this site does not have the publisher's permission to post these works.

27 posted on 07/07/2005 6:16:13 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe

Hmmm...


28 posted on 07/07/2005 7:21:22 AM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe
I suspect they don't have permission for these either: Charles G Finney - Lectures on Theology; Jacob Arminus-Complete Works
29 posted on 07/07/2005 7:23:02 AM PDT by Gamecock ("Nice" people aren't beaten to a bloody pulp, nailed onto a cross and then left to suffocate.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe
I have a very strong suspicion that this site does not have the publisher's permission to post these works.

I can find no statement on the site which enjoins readers to obtain permission before posting excerpts. So, this is really a non-issue. How about dealing with the content?

30 posted on 07/07/2005 7:58:41 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Gamecock; sionnsar
I suspect they don't have permission for these either: Charles G Finney - Lectures on Theology; Jacob Arminus-Complete Works

Undoubtedly. However many of the works posted on this site are by living authors with publishing contracts, such as Dave Hunt, Josh McDowell, Norman Geisler and John MacArthur, not to mention deceased authors who still have open copyrights such as Loraine Boettner and J. Vernon McGee. The copyright on Walter Martin's book was recently renewed with the Ravi Zacharias Edition.

This site apparently "Acknowledges" the copyrights, but does not claim permission to post them nor do many of these works contain the publisher's copyright notices.

While it would be nice if the publishers granted permission to post these works on-line, I suspect that they did not. I hope I am wrong, as this site contains many works which would be valuable, but I really do believe that many of these works are not being posted legally.

31 posted on 07/07/2005 8:02:09 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: nobdysfool
How about dealing with the content?

How about the commandment "Thou shalt not steal"?

32 posted on 07/07/2005 8:03:05 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe

Seeing that the OP of this thread does not actually quote any of the works, but only links to them, no harm, no foul.


33 posted on 07/07/2005 8:04:58 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: nobdysfool; P-Marlowe

No harm for FR, but what of that site?


34 posted on 07/07/2005 8:08:10 AM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar

Beyond our control, and it's their problem. We can control whether or not we quote or otherwise excerpt copyrighted works with or without permission on this site, but it is not our responsibility to ensure that they do so on their website.


35 posted on 07/07/2005 8:11:02 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: nobdysfool; Gamecock; sionnsar
Seeing that the OP of this thread does not actually quote any of the works, but only links to them, no harm, no foul.

My concern is not with the person who posted the thread, but with the person who posted the works on the internet. If these works are now in the public domain, then I would be tickled pink. I'd like nothing more than to use these works to start up some interesting discussions here on Free Republic. But I suspect that we would get into trouble if we did.

36 posted on 07/07/2005 8:11:46 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe

Then I suggest that you contact them and ask them directly.


37 posted on 07/07/2005 8:12:51 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: nobdysfool

Letter to Walter Martin's family:

I discovered a site on the internet that has the entire book Kingdom of the Cults posted. I suspect this is in violation of copyrights and if left alone could impact the revenues for the Estate of Dr. Martin.

Here is the link:

http://www.biblecentre.net/cults/koc/contents.htm

I would appreciate it if you could let me know if this is in violation of any copyrights owned by the estate or if they have permission to publish it.

Thanks


38 posted on 07/07/2005 8:45:10 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

I'll have to look him up, I never heard of him until I picked up Martin's book. I used to take out a copy from the Library once in awhile but it must have been a reprint because it didn't have Father Brown in it.


39 posted on 07/07/2005 1:44:42 PM PDT by escapefromboston (manny ortez: mvp)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe
Holy cow. This looks like the Napster of the Christian book world.

There are non-public domain books there that I paid big bucks for. I doubt if they're supposed to be there. I suspect major copyright infringement is going on there.

40 posted on 07/07/2005 2:44:25 PM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: jude24; nobdysfool; Gamecock; sionnsar
I suspect major copyright infringement is going on there.

So, it's not just me?

I sent an email to Dr. Martin's web site advising them that their father's work has been posted for all to steal. I haven't heard back yet, but I'm sure they will advise the webmaster that they need to remove his works. There is another Walter Martin book that I have been thinking about buying on that site along with some Norm Geisler Books I paid about $50 for (see tag line).

For all the sympathetic Calvinists out there, please note that Dave Hunt's book "What Love is This" is also posted for all to steal.

41 posted on 07/07/2005 3:22:14 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe
They also have the full Hendriksen/Kistemaker New Testament Commentary series. I paid $100 for that electronically.
42 posted on 07/07/2005 3:31:30 PM PDT by jude24 ("Stupid" isn't illegal - but it should be.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe
Thanks for addressing this.

You never know, though. I recently found online some books by a couple of my favorite 1970s Russian science-fiction writers -- including one or two books I hadn't read and are not in my collection. But apparently the Moscow library somehow owns the copyright now...

43 posted on 07/07/2005 4:47:05 PM PDT by sionnsar (†trad-anglican.faithweb.com† || Iran Azadi || Kyoto: Split Atoms, not Wood)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: sionnsar; jude24; nobdysfool; Gamecock
If something seems to good to be true, it probably is. I've been waiting for a chance to pick up the new Ravi Zacharias edition of the Kingdom of the Cults, but I wasn't going to pay the money until I had the time to read it. With a web site like this, I could download now and pay... never.

I suspect the web site owner thinks he is doing something good by providing free copies of these works to whoever finds them, but many of these people who write these books count on the income from the sales of these books to keep themselves from being poor. Other authors count on the sales to finance ministries.

If they have permission to post or if the copyrights have run out, then I am more than happy to see these works on the internet. I suspect, however, that the website has not obtained permission. We shall see. I have e-mailed Walter Martin's web site and hopefully I will receive a response soon. If the copyright has been relinquished or permission has been granted, then I'd be more than happy to use Martin's work as fodder for some.... interesting threads.

44 posted on 07/07/2005 5:22:41 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (A preposition is something you should never end a sentence with.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: BibChr

Four years later, still no answer to my question.


45 posted on 08/10/2009 4:46:24 AM PDT by BibChr ("...behold, they have rejected the word of the LORD, so what wisdom is in them?" [Jer. 8:9])
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson