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To: Claud

"Unfortunately, becoming an opening and welcoming church will require driving off those who are not open and welcoming. Like Amos, I pray that Bishop Smith can successfully suppress dissent in Connecticut so that ECUSA will be safe for diversity. It is only by eliminating those who refuse to be conform to the rules of ECUSA and be welcoming that we will have true diversity in ECUSA"

Behold, the iron fist inside liberalism's velvet glove!

Here's a story from during the days of the Arian crisis. Arian clergy forced an Orthodox Christian catechumen to be baptised. As the lady refused to be baptised by Arian clergy, they forced the issue and so she found she was being baptised against her own will. As she emerged from the font, all dripping wet and with oil running down her body from head to toe, she sweetly said, "Thank you for the bath." Other Orthodox Christians were martyred by the thousands for refusing to receive Holy Communion from the Arian clergy. Some things just never change.


19 posted on 07/14/2005 7:52:33 AM PDT by Graves (`)
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To: Graves

"Other Orthodox Christians were martyred by the thousands for refusing to receive Holy Communion from the Arian clergy. Some things just never change."

Yeah, that was back in the days when Christians acted like Muslims on jihad. At least that much has changed.


20 posted on 07/14/2005 8:13:43 AM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Graves

Back in earlier days of the Christian Church, religious authorities used murder, death, torture and legal force to compel faith. The Arians did in the example you did. The Catholics did against the Albigensians in France, particularly. Protestants burnt about 50,000 "witches" in Germany in the post-Reformation period. The Inquisition is infamous. So is the hanging, drawing and quartering of priests by Queen Elizabeth.

The Christians have stopped doing this.
But the Muslims are still in the "blood and fire" phase of their religion. Unfortunately for them (and all of their neighbors), their holy book itself explicitly commands this. By contrast, all of the various Christian-perpetrated horrors of violence and torture sit, and always sat, very uncomfortably with the Gospels of Jesus of Nazareth.

Nazareth was not a warmonger.
Mohammed was.
The difference shows in their religious texts.
And that difference ultimately shows through their religions.
Men being prone to violence and being bad, they all do bad things from time to time. But for Christians, even if justified by their religion, there was always a powerful countercurrent in their religious texts that, read plainly in plain language, tell us that Christians who kill and torture in the zeal for their faith are actually in defiance of the tenets of their own God.
By contrast, the Koran sets the Muslim free to follow his own worst impulses and justify it in the name of God.

What I meant by "Yeah, that was back in the days when Christians acted like Muslims on jihad. At least that much has changed" was that Christians used to murder others to advance their religion, just like Muslims.
The difference is that Christians don't do it any more, because their Bible actually says not to do that, and in a literate age, more people know that. Muslims continue to do it, and their Koran says to to do that, and in a literate age, more people know that.


22 posted on 07/14/2005 1:51:10 PM PDT by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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