SIN , no such thing? YOU THINK Why is there confession?

[InterestedQuestioner]

I think this conversation about sin is something upon which all Christians could collaborate productively, and I would be very interested in a thread being used as a vehicle to discuss the nature of sin.

Unfortunately, many of the threads that pertain to the Catholic faith have been side-tracked by those who want to impose their view that we must hold the opinion that we are saved by faith alone, where faith is understood to mean mere belief.

[annalex]

A devotion to, -- in fact, worship of, -- Jesus is required of all Christians. But we know that not all who call on the Lord's name will be saved. A devotion to Mary is not required. This is why it is a sign of exceptional faith.

[jo kus]

"Protestants would make the following change:

Spontaneously developing a devotion to Jesus is a good sign."

Is there a problem with showing love (devotion) to another person besides God? We are commanded to love others. I don't see a problem with expressing love for another and following the example of the saints who have successfully gone before us. However, this is now getting off topic, and I am already discussing this issue on another thread...

Regards

[jo kus]

"A devotion to Mary is not required. This is why it is a sign of exceptional faith."

Ah, that is a very good point, I hadn't thought of that...

Regards

[annalex]

many of the threads that pertain to the Catholic faith have been side-tracked

Absolutely. I don't mind explaining the Catholic faith to anyone with questions, but all too often the threads deteriorate into a noisy and unproductive discussion of fundamentals of the faith and a more sophisticated topics get drowned out.

Sin is something all Christians believe in and have an interest in avoiding. I'd be curious to see how one who holds the sola fide views explains the phenomenon of sin and interprets the scriptural commandment to confess sins. But I am not interested in discussing sola fide per se, because I think everyone has already given these fundamentals a sufficient amount of thought and the discussion on sola fide will easily go hundreds of posts unrelated to sin and confession, and not breaking any new theological grounds on sola fide either.

[Frank Sheed]

Marvelous points made, all! I truly enjoy reading your well considered responses. FR has such marvelous capabilities to enlighten and to enunciate.

Frank

[InterestedQuestioner]

I don't agree with Calvin's stating that we are saved by faith alone - as even the devil has faith that God exists. I note that Calvin forgets about Eph 2:10, the next verse. I think we also have to include obedience to God. It is clear from the Gospels that we are to obey God. If your definition of faith includes obedience, then we are probably on the same page in this matter.

That's interesting. I don't agree with Calvin that we are saved by Faith alone because he claims he's basing his religion on the Bible, and Faith alone is not in the Bible. Paul states in the opening of the book of Romans, and again at it's conclusion that his purpose is to bring about the obedience of Faith, and as I understand it, this is the reason for the preaching of the Gospel. See also:

Romans 6:16 "Do you not know that if you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of that one you obey--either of sin leading to death or of obedience leading to righteousness?"

I think it's been argued by Father Most that if we understood the word "faith" in Martin Luther's hypothesis, "saved by faith alone" to mean total obedience to the will of God, then we are probably very close to agreement on this issue. I think it becomes cumbersome to superimpose that man-made assertion-saved by faith alone--upon the scriptures, however, because it explicitly contradicts scripture. If, on the other hand, we understand the word "faith" in "saved by faith alone" to mean a mere momentary belief, opinion, or even a moment of profound trust, as some seem to understand it, then such agreement with scripture disappears.

I regard that last interpretation of scripture as a potentially dangerous fiction.

Faith in Jesus--believing in Jesus, includes being obedient to Jesus, and accepting him as Lord. I have no reason to believe that this obedience is optional, but rather is a fundamental requirement of discipleship. Nor do I understand why some would see this as being a momentary requirement. We are constantly in position of needing to turn to God for his grace and mercy. Peter, disciple of Christ and chief among the Apostles has that beautiful prayer when he falls into the sea, "Lord, save me!" As disciples of Christ, I think we frequently find ourselves in that position.

[Rosary]

Why that is the silliest remark I've ever heard..Confession according to the standard of Christ's Church,the Catholic Church erases SIN and DRAWS one even closer to Christ!
He ,Himself made this a Sacrament. one which all Catholics are reqiured to do before ever receiveing the Communion.
How strange ,how could saying sorry to Jesus in confession ever take one awy from Him,when the priest is His Apostle.

[Rosary]

Protestant "tradition" ?? Wow, is of course,those who protested against the Church Christ founded "the Cathoilc Church " and took out what THEY did not like about HIS teachings..right down to the books of the Bible~! Sin is still sin.

[Rosary]

Where does the GRACE come from? What Church has graces? What Church has Confession? What Church did Christ give the keys too and make the First Pope/
Faith,hope and charity..prayers ,goodness,confession,repentance, Grace- Salvation

[Rosary]

Oh yes, at first Augustine was a terrible SINNER..but by the prayers and tears of his pious Mother, Monica,he was brought to the relization of the AWFULNESS OF SIN..repentened and became a Bishop and SAINT in the Catholic Church.

[jo kus]

"Faith in Jesus--believing in Jesus, includes being obedient to Jesus, and accepting him as Lord. I have no reason to believe that this obedience is optional, but rather is a fundamental requirement of discipleship"

How is it that Christ is our King, but some claim we don't have to obey Him? What part of "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Mat 7:21) don't they understand?

So much for picking up our cross daily...

Regards