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Celebrate 'God's October Surprise'
religion news ^ | September 25th,2005 | Holly Lebowitz Rossi

Posted on 09/26/2005 6:29:50 PM PDT by laney

Oct. 4 will indeed be a holy day. For the first time in 33 years, two world religions will simultaneously mark the beginning of their most sacred seasons on the same day. Jews will celebrate Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year that also begins the 10-day period known as the “Days of Awe.” And Muslims will usher in Ramadan, the holy month that is marked by daily fasting between sunrise and sunset.

Christians, meanwhile, will be marking the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi, also on Oct. 4. Across the country, religious communities are using the calendar's coincidence as a launch pad for interfaith projects around topics ranging from the political to the spiritual. Rabbi Arthur Waskow, the director of the Philadelphia-based Shalom Center, a national peace and justice organization, has dubbed the confluence of holidays “God's October Surprise.”

Why Rosh Hashana and Ramadan Meet Only Once Every 33 Years

Everybody knows that there are 365 days in the solar year. But how many know the number of days in a lunar year? The answer is 354, 11 days fewer than the solar calendar. Judaism and Islam, which both observe a lunar calendar, treat this disparity differently, explaining why it is so noteworthy that this year, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins on the same day as the Jewish new year, Rosh Hashana (Oct. 4).


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1 posted on 09/26/2005 6:29:51 PM PDT by laney
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To: laney
Sounds like a good time for'em all to fight it out! Let the best religion win!!
2 posted on 09/26/2005 6:32:06 PM PDT by KoRn
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To: laney



Joy /s I'm sure the muslims are gonna be willing to share their HOLY holiday with the Jews or Christians..


3 posted on 09/26/2005 6:33:09 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: laney
10-4
4 posted on 09/26/2005 6:34:19 PM PDT by Zuben Elgenubi
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To: KoRn

Ditto!


5 posted on 09/26/2005 6:34:48 PM PDT by Brian328i (This is Slackware propaganda.)
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To: laney

Perfect! Sounds like an opportunity for Muslims to attack Israel like they did on Yom Kippur in the 1973 Yom Kippur War.


6 posted on 09/26/2005 6:35:48 PM PDT by putupjob
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: laney

"Christians, meanwhile, will be marking the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi, also on Oct. 4. Across the country, religious communities are using the calendar's coincidence as a launch pad for interfaith projects around topics ranging from the political to the spiritual."

First of all, are there any non-Catholics that actually celebrate the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi? Secondly, what are some of these "interfaith projects" that are spiritual in nature? Count me out of those.


8 posted on 09/26/2005 6:48:29 PM PDT by bahblahbah
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To: bahblahbah

No.

Lots of us very religious types don't participate in any of the mentioned festivities, other than to celebrate the Lord's resurrection on the Sundays that bookend them.


9 posted on 09/26/2005 6:51:14 PM PDT by Jedidah
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To: laney

''Christians, meanwhile, will be marking the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi''
That sentence should probably start with the word 'Catholics' rather than 'Christians'. While I personally bear no ill will against Catholics, or the practitioners of any other religion simply because they practice it (unless they feel it is their religious duty to murder me), Protestants don't celebrate holidays involving saints. At least to my knowledge none of them do, and I've been one all of my life.


10 posted on 09/26/2005 6:59:08 PM PDT by KarinG1
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To: laney; Petronski
Oct. 4 will indeed be a holy day. -snip- Jews will celebrate Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year that also begins the 10-day period known as the “Days of Awe.” And Muslims will usher in Ramadan, the holy month that is marked by daily fasting between sunrise and sunset. Christians, meanwhile, will be marking the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi, also on Oct. 4.

Well, Catholics anyway for the Feast of St. Francis. Wow. Quite unusual.

11 posted on 09/26/2005 7:03:28 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: laney
Rosh Hashana

Some Christians choose to celebrate Rosh Hashana, or the Feast of Trumpets. God calls this day a "feast of the Lord" and it has great significance for all of mankind.

The Biblical Feast of Trumpets

12 posted on 09/26/2005 7:04:22 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: SouthernFreebird
I'm sure the muslims are gonna be willing to share their HOLY holiday with the Jews or Christians..

If anything, it will be like a 'sign' to fight and not have to share.

13 posted on 09/26/2005 7:04:56 PM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: laney
Jews will celebrate Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year that also begins the 10-day period known as the “Days of Awe.”

Torah-observant Jews will celebrate the Feast of Trumpets.

b'shem Y'shua

14 posted on 09/26/2005 7:05:21 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: laney
Judaism and Islam, which both observe a lunar calendar, treat this disparity differently, explaining why it is so noteworthy that this year, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins on the same day as the Jewish new year, Rosh Hashana (Oct. 4).

Can someone tell me why this is so noteworthy? Frankly who gives a rats rear end that the holidays happen to start on the same day this year?

15 posted on 09/26/2005 7:10:40 PM PDT by Fzob (Why does this tag line keep showing up?)
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To: KarinG1

I was raised Catholic and don't ever remember celebrating it much less hearing about it.


16 posted on 09/26/2005 7:36:30 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: KarinG1
The university calendar in England was traditionally set up with reference to major saints' feastdays such as St. Michael (Sept. 29, Michaelmas). I don't know if the Church of England still observes the feasts but they might.

In the early 1990s one October 4 CNN ran a segment on a Franciscan priest in San Francisco blessing some animals, as if it might be of interest to a wider audience.

17 posted on 09/26/2005 7:41:44 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Fzob

Most lunar calendars have intercalary months (an additional month added every second or third year) in order to keep the lunar calendar in line with the seasons. For people living in an agricultural society, this would be for a practical reason, so that harvest festivals happen at harvest-time and so on. Muhammad decided to forbid intercalary months, so the Muslim year gains a year on the solar calendar about once every 33 years.


18 posted on 09/26/2005 7:45:01 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: DouglasKC

For later reading


19 posted on 09/26/2005 8:06:12 PM PDT by SnarlinCubBear (VISUALIZE WHIRLED PEAS)
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To: Verginius Rufus
I don't know if the Church of England still observes the feasts but they might.

Here is the relevant section of the Anglican Book of Common Prayer.

As to whether today's festering corpse of a Church of England still gives a rat's ass for the BCP, I couldn't say.

20 posted on 09/26/2005 8:23:10 PM PDT by John Locke
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To: laney; Jeremiah Jr; dennisw; Lijahsbubbe; Sabramerican
Oct. 4 will indeed be a holy day. For the first time in 33 years, two world religions will simultaneously mark the beginning of their most sacred seasons on the same day. Jews will celebrate Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year that also begins the 10-day period known as the “Days of Awe.” And Muslims will usher in Ramadan, the holy month that is marked by daily fasting between sunrise and sunset. Christians, meanwhile, will be marking the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi, also on Oct. 4.

Ramabomb and Jewish High Holy Days... talk about an explosive combination. One celebrates with jihad, the other with peace, penitence, and prayer. How many rocks and bricks will be hurled over the Wall? Not to mention that the patron saint of beasts is tossed in the mix.

21 posted on 09/26/2005 9:17:59 PM PDT by Thinkin' Gal (As it was in the days of NO...)
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To: Thinkin' Gal; Jeremiah Jr; dennisw
Rabbi Arthur Waskow, the director of the Philadelphia-based Shalom Center, a national peace and justice organization, has dubbed the confluence of holidays “God's October Surprise.”

Well, uh, that's quite the moniker......hope it doesn't prove to be prophetic.

22 posted on 09/26/2005 9:36:37 PM PDT by Lijahsbubbe (To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world)
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To: Verginius Rufus

I understand why the lunar calendar is different. What I don't understand is why it is noteworthy that a holiday happens to coincide every 33 years.


23 posted on 09/27/2005 2:01:29 AM PDT by Fzob (Why does this tag line keep showing up?)
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To: laney

I'll be celebrating more October 7, Our Lady of the Rosary, a result of the Battle of Lepanto.


24 posted on 09/27/2005 6:18:43 AM PDT by charliemarlow
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To: DouglasKC; laney
Some Christians choose to celebrate Rosh Hashana, or the Feast of Trumpets. God calls this day a "feast of the Lord" and it has great significance for all of mankind.

Only those Christians that misinterpret the new covenant and place continuing significance on the old covenant cultic rituals that God gave to national Israel, which all passed from the scene in the 1st century.

Thankfully they are a minority.

25 posted on 09/27/2005 6:33:34 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; DouglasKC; laney
DKC>Some Christians choose to celebrate Rosh Hashana, or the Feast of Trumpets. God calls this day a "feast of the Lord" and it has great significance for all of mankind.

tc54>Only those Christians that misinterpret the new covenant and place continuing significance on the old covenant cultic rituals that God gave to national Israel, which all passed from the scene in the 1st century. Thankfully they are a minority.

How do you read Jeremiah 31-40 ?

Where the L-rd states the New Covenant is to made with the house of Judah and Israel.

b'shem Y'shua

26 posted on 09/27/2005 7:58:03 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: laney

Hmmm, what other significance does "33 years" have?


27 posted on 09/27/2005 8:00:31 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: XeniaSt; DouglasKC; laney
Where the L-rd states the New Covenant is to made with the house of Judah and Israel.

Yep, and that what it says in the book of Hebrews is a present reality. Quoting Jeremiah, the writers says, "In that He says, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away" (Heb. 8:13). The new covenant is with us now. It is a present reality for "the house of Israel and the house of Judah". All who place their trust in Jesus Christ, whether Jew or gentile, are members of the new covenant body, the body of Christ.

28 posted on 09/27/2005 8:05:37 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: murphE; laney
Hmmm, what other significance does "33 years" have?

Well, it's the amount of time Hal Lindsey and others thought would pass from the founding of the state of Israel in 1948 until the "secret rapture" of the church. Probably not significant any more. That theory has been discredited.

29 posted on 09/27/2005 8:17:37 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
Only those Christians that misinterpret the new covenant and place continuing significance on the old covenant

Leviticus 23 outlines all the Feast Days of the Lord and stipulates that these Festivals are to be lasting ordinances for all of your generations to come, wherever you are .

You, my friend, are the one misinterpreting scripture. And yes, we are a minority. The Lord himself referred to us as his little flock (Luke 12:32). The Church was never shown in scripture, or prophecy, to be a dominant influential, worldly organization. I would ask you for your scriptural proof of the abolishment of these ordinances but it is always a waste of time because generally I get nothing back except something about "traditions of the early fathers". When someone does try to give me a scriptural proof it is always with regards to something totally different and has nothing to do with God's Festivals.

30 posted on 09/27/2005 8:44:54 AM PDT by Diego1618
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To: Diego1618; XeniaSt; DouglasKC; laney
Leviticus 23 outlines all the Feast Days of the Lord and stipulates that these Festivals are to be lasting ordinances for all of your generations to come, wherever you are .

So is it your opinion that the Levitical priesthood and the bloody sacrificial system is still a legitimate expression of worship to God? They do fall under the same "everlasting ordinances" rubric, do they not?

You cannot separate one from the other. The festival system was inherently bloody. There is no legitimate keeping of those old covenant festivals without the shedding of animal blood. E.g., "But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the Lord for seven days. And you shall offer with the bread seven lambs of the first year, without blemish, one young bull, and two rams. They shall be as a burnt offering to the Lord, with their grain offering and their drink offerings, an offering made by fire for a sweet aroma to the Lord." (Lev. 23:8,18). Nowhere has God "changed the rule" ala modern "messianic" practices.

I'm afraid you are the one misinterpreting Scripture by selectively deciding which cultic laws to observe, and then creating your own rules on how to be "observant".

31 posted on 09/27/2005 9:10:36 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: Diego1618; XeniaSt; DouglasKC; laney
Just so we are clear here. The Bible says:

"Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it" (Deut. 12:32).

Tell us plainly where God has changed the commandment in Lev. 23, and made acceptable to Him the observance of Levitical feast days without the shedding of blood and burnt offerings?

32 posted on 09/27/2005 9:17:31 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; DouglasKC; laney
Jeremiah 31: 31-40

31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD.

33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them, and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

34 "And they shall not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

35 Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day, And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name:

36 "If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also shall cease From being a nation before Me forever."

37 Thus says the LORD, "If the heavens above can be measured, And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done," declares the LORD.

38 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when the city shall be rebuilt for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate.

39 "And the measuring line shall go out farther straight ahead to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah.

40 "And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, or overthrown anymore forever."

There are those who having been grafted into Abraham who are members of this new covenant.

b'shem Y'shua

33 posted on 09/27/2005 9:22:45 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: XeniaSt; DouglasKC; laney
There are those who having been grafted into Abraham who are members of this new covenant.

Yes, we call it the Church. It is a present reality. Jeremiah 31 has been and continues to be fulfilled.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." (Gal. 3:28,29)

34 posted on 09/27/2005 9:42:37 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: laney

PERFECT! What a wonderful opportunity for ASSISSI III!


35 posted on 09/27/2005 10:12:48 AM PDT by dangus
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To: KarinG1

Orthodox and Episcopalians do.


36 posted on 09/27/2005 10:13:24 AM PDT by dangus
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To: topcat54

1948+33=1981. That makes Ronald Reagan the second coming?


37 posted on 09/27/2005 10:14:31 AM PDT by dangus
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To: topcat54

>> So is it your opinion that the Levitical priesthood and the bloody sacrificial system is still a legitimate expression of worship to God? They do fall under the same "everlasting ordinances" rubric, do they not? <<

Actually, yes. The sacrifice of Christ on the altar is eternal.


38 posted on 09/27/2005 10:16:12 AM PDT by dangus
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To: topcat54

>> So is it your opinion that the Levitical priesthood and the bloody sacrificial system is still a legitimate expression of worship to God? They do fall under the same "everlasting ordinances" rubric, do they not? <<

The blood of the lamb.


39 posted on 09/27/2005 10:16:45 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dangus

>> PERFECT! What a wonderful opportunity for ASSISSI III! <<

(I hope everyone recognizes the sarcasm...)


40 posted on 09/27/2005 10:17:40 AM PDT by dangus
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To: laney
Christians, meanwhile, will be marking the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi, also on Oct. 4.

4 Oct is the anniversary of Sputnik.

41 posted on 09/27/2005 10:19:58 AM PDT by RightWhale (We in heep dip trubble)
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To: dangus
Actually, yes. The sacrifice of Christ on the altar is eternal.

So you would agree that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross is the fulfillment of this "everlasting ordinance", with the type (the killing of an animal and shedding of its blood) giving way to the antitype (Christ's sacrifice on the cross)?

If the sacrifice of animals, an "everlasting ordinance" is not longer in effect, why do some propose that the (bloodless??) festivals are still legitimate, rather than also being fulfilled in Christ? Where do "bloodless" festivals find legitimacy in Scripture?

It's an odd position.

42 posted on 09/27/2005 10:30:59 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; dangus
d> Actually, yes. The sacrifice of Christ on the altar is eternal.

t54>So you would agree that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross is the fulfillment of this "everlasting ordinance", with the type (the killing of an animal and shedding of its blood) giving way to the antitype (Christ's sacrifice on the cross)? If the sacrifice of animals, an "everlasting ordinance" is not longer in effect, why do some propose that the (bloodless??) festivals are still legitimate, rather than also being fulfilled in Christ? Where do "bloodless" festivals find legitimacy in Scripture? It's an odd position.

In a study of the Seven Feasts of the L-rd,
Y'shua fulfilled Pesach, hag Matzoh and fruits fruits on the day of the feast and in the metaphor as identified and in the place as defined.

On the "feast of weeks", Shavuot which is seven weeks and a day from the Feast of First Fruits. This would make it Fifty days ( Pentecost in the Koine Greek) the Ruach haKodesh descended and filled those who were assembled as they were required to by the Law in Jerusalem.

This leaves the Feast of Trumpets, Yom Kippur and Succoth yet to be fulfilled by the L-rd. on the day and in the metaphor as described in Leviticus 23.

b'shem Y'shua

43 posted on 09/27/2005 11:04:21 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: topcat54; dangus
Th October surprise that I'm looking forward to is
how the L-rd will fulfill the last three Feasts of His
and in the metaphor as described in Leviticus 23.

b'shem Y'shua

44 posted on 09/27/2005 11:20:29 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: Lijahsbubbe; Thinkin' Gal
Countdown...

Revelation 11

The Two Witnesses

7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.

(Jews and Christians)

10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.

(Muslims)

45 posted on 09/27/2005 11:23:02 AM PDT by Jeremiah Jr ("Tzohar Ta’aseh LaTayvah'' Bereishet 6:16 / T.O.E. = Unification = Echad!)
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To: XeniaSt; dangus
In a study of the Seven Feasts of the L-rd,
Y'shua fulfilled ... ... This leaves the ...

That's a theory. It's not a very good one, but it's a theory. There is no reason to believe that Christ did not fulfill all the feast days at His first coming. Scripture says He fuliflled "all righteousness" (Matt. 3:15), and "all the law" (Matt. 5:17). Otherwise Christ did not fulfill "all the law", and you are dead in your trespasses and sin.

46 posted on 09/27/2005 11:27:16 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: Jeremiah Jr; Lijahsbubbe; Thinkin' Gal
The Two Witnesses ...

(Jews and Christians) ...

(Muslims)

How delightfully allegorical ...

47 posted on 09/27/2005 11:45:42 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
That's a theory. It's not a very good one, but it's a theory. There is no reason to believe that Christ did not fulfill all the feast days at His first coming. Scripture says He fuliflled "all righteousness" (Matt. 3:15), and "all the law" (Matt. 5:17). Otherwise Christ did not fulfill "all the law", and you are dead in your trespasses and sin.

Please quote in the context given.

Matthew 3:
13 Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.
14 But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?"
15 But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him.

Matthew 5:
16 "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
17 "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.
18 "For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished.

b'shem Y'shua

48 posted on 09/27/2005 12:00:33 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (Y'shua <==> YHvH is my Salvation (Psalm 118-14))
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To: topcat54; Diego1618; XeniaSt; laney
Tell us plainly where God has changed the commandment in Lev. 23, and made acceptable to Him the observance of Levitical feast days without the shedding of blood and burnt offerings?

It's in Hebrews. Hebrews chapter 8, 9 and 10 clearly present that the Levitical priesthood has been replaced by a new, better priesthood in Christ. Chapters 9 and 10 especially make clear that animal sacrifices and burnt offerings are not needed. HOWEVER, nowhere does it say that God's Holy Days are not to be observed, or are of no effect.

Obviously the writer of Hebrews wasn't afraid to buck the system of Judaism. He made a major change by outlining why sacrifices and the priesthood were not needed. Yet he did not make a case that God's Holy Days were no longer to be observed. It is certain that in biblical times Christians celebrated the Lord's feast days. They certainly didn't celebrate Easter, Christmas or any other holiday that we associate with Christianity today.

49 posted on 09/27/2005 12:06:45 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: DouglasKC; Diego1618; XeniaSt; laney
It's in Hebrews. Hebrews chapter 8, 9 and 10 clearly present that the Levitical priesthood has been replaced by a new, better priesthood in Christ. Chapters 9 and 10 especially make clear that animal sacrifices and burnt offerings are not needed. HOWEVER, nowhere does it say that God's Holy Days are not to be observed, or are of no effect.

Oops. Sorry. Fault.

If you read very carefully, or actually not so carefully, you will see that Hebrews is speaking of a change from one system to another; from the Levitical Order of the sacrificial system to the Melchizedekian Order of Jesus Christ. "As He also says in another place: 'You are a priest forever According to the order of Melchizedek'" (Heb. 5:6). It was not a change of the Levitical Order. It was an abolishment of the Levitical Order.

The "holy days" were part and parcel of the Levitical system. Melchizadek never kept the festival days of Leviticus.

"But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises." (Heb. 8:6)

The imperfect Levitical system was completely replaced by the perfect one after the Order of Melchizedek.

Try again. Where is there an divinely authorized change to the Levitical system so that bloody festivals become unbloody. (I'll give you a hint, there is only one, and it is directly referenced in the establishment of the new covenant.)

50 posted on 09/27/2005 12:46:21 PM PDT by topcat54
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