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Tridentine Mass "Not a Priority," Says Cardinal Arinze (Vatican Synod)
Zenit News Agency ^ | October 13, 2005

Posted on 10/14/2005 7:01:46 AM PDT by NYer

VATICAN CITY, OCT. 13, 2005 (Zenit.org).- No one at the Synod of Bishops on the Eucharist has addressed the issue of the "Tridentine rite" Mass that the Latin Church used before the Second Vatican Council.

The prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, Cardinal Francis Arinze, mentioned this at a press conference today when he evaluated the first phase of the synodal assembly.

"No synodal father has mentioned this point," said Cardinal Arinze, the co-president of the assembly. The so-called Tridentine rite was approved by Pope St. Pius V.

"If there are groups that desire the Tridentine Mass, this is already provided for," he said. "Bishops may allow it for groups."

"It is not a priority for the synod, as no one has spoken about it," the cardinal concluded. "The problem we have discussed is that many people don't go to Mass, and those that come don't understand -- they go to Communion but not to confession, as if they were immaculate."


TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
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1 posted on 10/14/2005 7:01:54 AM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...


2 posted on 10/14/2005 7:02:42 AM PDT by NYer (ôSocialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: NYer

Boy if only they could convey that last line to the regular church goer (as far as the notion that if you take communion without confession your essentially acting as though you are without sin).


3 posted on 10/14/2005 7:09:11 AM PDT by x5452
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To: NYer
"If there are groups that desire the Tridentine Mass, this is already provided for," he said. "Bishops may allow it for groups."

The key word there is "may." Perhaps the reason they aren't discussing it is because they know Pope Benedict XVI is going to issue a universal indult (pure speculation on my part).

4 posted on 10/14/2005 7:09:48 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (Blessed Pius IX, pray for us!)
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To: NYer
I don't understand traditionalists' obsession with the Tridentine Mass. Certainly the Novus Ordo Mass has been very poorly implemented by ill-doctrinated liturgists, but in its purest form the Mass is quite beautiful and perfectly legit.

Even the Tridentine Mass was a radical "change" from the celebration of the first Christians. If we follow their line of thought, the only acceptable form of worship would be in Greek or Aramaic and we should abandon the Latin rite entirely for the Maronite.
5 posted on 10/14/2005 7:10:54 AM PDT by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: NYer

When will they or will they ever realize that the reaspn many Catholics do not attend Mass is because it is not a Catholic Mass!! It is more of a rendition of the Lutheran/Protestant sunday Church meeting, with the communion.

Bring back the the Lation Tridentine Mass and the the strength of the Cathechism of the Council of Trent. Without these Historical Trademarks of the Catholic Church, there is no Catholic Church, just a facsimily.


6 posted on 10/14/2005 7:12:10 AM PDT by 26lemoncharlie ('Cuntas haereses tu sola interemisti in universo mundo!')
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To: mike182d
Something can be valid (e.g., "legit"), yet inferior at the same time.

Even the best examples of the Missa Normativa are still lacking something when compared to the "Mass of all Ages."

And I say this as someone who has only assisted at the Tradtional Latin Mass a handful of times. It's just too obvious to miss.

I think the best thing for the Church to do with the liberty is to go back to 1965 and start over with the reform, doing it incrementally and organically this time.

7 posted on 10/14/2005 7:21:43 AM PDT by B Knotts
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To: 26lemoncharlie
The reason that people do not attend Mass is that they themselves are not cognizant that they are Catholic. Being poorly catechized, many have no clue if they committed a moral Sin, and worse even if they did are being bombarded with rationalizations that this is no impediment to their own Salvation and well being. Why do you neeed confession if you don't Sin?

The Cardinal got it right, everyone thinks they are immaculate. Without prejudging a deceased person, this morning someone was talking about Jimi Hendrix, sitting in heaven smiling down at us appreciating the album, "Are You Experienced". I hope the poor guy had a flash deathbed conversion, but it is not likely.

If Jimi doesn't need the Church or the Mass, or any discernible sacrament to be sitting in Heaven, and this is what people believe, then we have a bigger problem than the form of the Rite of Mass.
8 posted on 10/14/2005 7:22:16 AM PDT by Dominick ("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
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To: B Knotts
Something can be valid (e.g., "legit"), yet inferior at the same time.

What makes the Novus Ordo Mass inferior?

If the Novus Ordo Mass is celebrated as explicitely prescribed in the rubrics and Sancrosanctum Concilium, and not watered-down or "secularized" by liturgists, there is nothing "inferior" about it.
9 posted on 10/14/2005 7:23:58 AM PDT by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: 26lemoncharlie
It is more of a rendition of the Lutheran/Protestant sunday Church meeting, with the communion.

When the Novus Ordo Mass is celebrated strickly according to how Sancrosanctum Concilium and the GIRM dictate, it is nothing like a Protestant service.

Ignorant liturgists asking for "exceptions" left and right have done that.
10 posted on 10/14/2005 7:25:42 AM PDT by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: NYer
"[The Tridentine Mass] is not a priority... "The problem we have discussed is that many people don't go to Mass, and those that come don't understand

Unintentional irony alert.

11 posted on 10/14/2005 7:28:21 AM PDT by Romulus (Quomodo sedet sola civitas plena populo.)
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To: mike182d
What makes the Novus Ordo Mass inferior?

The New Mass: Inalienable Right or Inferior Rite?

12 posted on 10/14/2005 7:34:28 AM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: NYer
Way back when, the notion of sin was different. I grew up believing that if I ate meat on Friday I had committed a mortal sin and would go to hell if I died in that state of mortal sin.
Confession was necessary for mortal sins, not venial sins. Perhaps mortal and venial sins weren't clarified well. I'm not accusing, just thinking.

Today the word from the pulpit is that confession is essential for "egregous" sins. What is "egregous" sin? It's pretty bad stuff in my book.

At the same time we are exhorted to go to confession at least once a year because it's a good thing for us.

Perhaps I am reading this all wrong but it seems to me as if the concept of sin and confession have changed, that is, gotten more realistic. Ancient Christians didn't go to confession but once in a lifetime perhaps. It wasn't a weekly or even a yearly sacrament. Confession has changed over the millenium.

At the same time, the concept of receiving the Eucharist has been emphasized more. It also wasn't a DAILY sacrament for most Christians as it is today.

The world has changed. We Catholics DO have access to frequent confession and daily Mass and communion. I can readily understand why the Church has altered its sacraments.
Changes are never done quickly or without profound thought. I THINK that the Church tries to think things through.

13 posted on 10/14/2005 7:36:27 AM PDT by starfish923 (It's never right to do wrong. Socrates)
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To: mike182d
we should abandon the Latin rite entirely for the Maronite.

:-)

Not surprisingly, following a similar train of thought, many American Maronites prefer the soft homiletics and quick liturgy at the NO Mass over the more orthodox reminders of their sins and the 1 1/2 hour Divine Liturgy in the Maronite parishes. There is no pleasing everyone.

14 posted on 10/14/2005 7:42:10 AM PDT by NYer (ôSocialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: NYer

Many of the Catholics I have met, can be bested by an 8th-grade Baptist kid who always went to Sunday School, in terms of Bible knowledge.


15 posted on 10/14/2005 7:44:25 AM PDT by ikka
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To: mike182d

Strictly speaking, the Mass according to Sacrosanctum Concilium would be that of the 1965 Missale Romanum. The Novus Ordo is a fabrication drawn up 4-5 years after the close of the Council.

You are correct that Novus Ordo needs to be celebrated as prescribed in the GIRM. The problem, however, lies in the fact that the GIRM allows for too many variations. This is an issue that the Pope Benedict is well aware of and probably plans to address.

In the meantime, the Tridentine Mass at the very least offers the faithful a stable liturgy, something which is sorely lacking in the Novus Ordo, both due to the provisions in the GIRM and in spite of them.


16 posted on 10/14/2005 7:46:33 AM PDT by jrny (Oremus pro Pontifice nostro Benedicto Decimo Sexto.)
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To: mike182d

Mike - Vatican II did not call for a new rite of mass to be created. Paul IV was a weak pope and allowed the bishops with their own agendas to push him into allowing a watered down protestant mass. I know this because I spent time as a lutheran and came back. The Lutheran service(ELCA) is very close to the Paul IV mass. Even the eucharistic prayers are close.
I now attend the indult in Norristown and go to the one in New JErsey from time to time. Believe me, the traditioanl latin mass is better in terms of reverence and theology.


17 posted on 10/14/2005 7:49:33 AM PDT by badabing98
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To: murphE
The New Mass: Inalienable Right or Inferior Rite?

The article is not very persuasive because his entire attack on the Novus Ordo Mass is a straw-man argument and by his own submission concerning the very nature of the Sacred Liturgy leads to conclusion that I don't think any Catholic can believe.

For example:
1. Latin is the official language of the Novus Ordo Mass and only certain parts are to be replaced with the vernacular but only by exception and not the rule.
2. Gregorian Chant and Sacred Polyphany has pride of place in the Novus Ordo Mass and is preferred over all other forms of sacred polyphany.
3. The Tabernacle should always be front and center - in fact one of the topics of discussion at the Synod was to enforce this mandate.
4. Altar rails weren't never meant to be removed.
5. The priest is meant to face East - ad orientem.
6. The current English translations are admittedly hideous and a newer, more accurate and less politically-based, translation is in the works that is truer to the Latin text.
7. Receiving in the hand is by exception only. The practice of receiving on the tongue is still the desired method and even intinction.

8. No one is to be in the Sanctuary except ordained ministers and altar servers when needed.

His attack on the Novus Ordo Mass is an attack on a straw-man - a Novus Ordo Mass destroyed by liberal liturgists and not true to its form. Furthermore, I could argue that the ancient worship in Greek or Aramaic is even more holy than the "vulgar" Latin that the Church accepted in the 4th Century as the language of the Church. By his own reasoning, the Tridentine Mass should be rejected too.

Lastly, the Novus Ordo Mass was created by a Church Council and accepted by a vast majority of Bishops present at the Council. Jesus Christ says of the Church that "the gates of the netherworld will not prevail against it." With the celebration of the holy sacrifice of the Mass as the heart of the entire Catholic/Christian faith and the source of its very life, the "gates of the netherworld" have prevailed against His Church if the whole of a Church Council, infallible in that moment as successors to the Apostles, was able to tarnish, even slightly, the most Sacred act in the whole of the universe.

To criticize the Novus Ordo Mass is to say that Christ lied and that the Church failed to protect what was most Sacred - which was its primary function. You can criticize its abused implementation but you cannot criticize the Novus Ordo Mass without criticizing the whole of the Church and the promise of Jesus Christ.
18 posted on 10/14/2005 7:59:22 AM PDT by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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To: B Knotts
I think the best thing for the Church to do with the liberty is to go back to 1965 and start over with the reform, doing it incrementally and organically this time.

If you have been following the Synod postings, it is evident that the Normative liturgy is drawing in people and many converts, throughout Africa, India and Asia. They are also experiencing a wealth of vocations. Perhaps we need some of their priests to share their joy with us here in the west.

19 posted on 10/14/2005 8:03:23 AM PDT by NYer (ôSocialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: mike182d
4. Altar rails weren't never meant to be removed.

4. Altar rails weren't never meant to be removed.

*sigh* ...its gonna' be a long day.
20 posted on 10/14/2005 8:03:30 AM PDT by mike182d ("Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?")
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