Skip to comments.Vatican Storylines: Those Who Are Resisting Benedict XVI
Posted on 01/19/2006 12:33:10 PM PST by NYer
click here to read article
Tenor range? Ummm, having Queen of the Night notes, tenor range is more like light mezzo.
Besides, I like listening to gentlemen's schola. Really, it's quite beautiful and quite freeing to be able to just kneel and listen.
OK, I read it. I'm not clear on what you are trying to convey with it. Which do you contend, that this article shows they are schimatic or heretical, and exactly what in the article do you think shows this? Because I see nothing new over what was in our article on this thread.
I am just beating the Pope to the inevitable finish line by calling them schismatics.
Call me prophetic :)
You should hear me do Alto...
Yes, and that is what I usually do but I've been studing chant for a little over a year seriously and it helped me to practice some with the schola. This past summer I had to have my thyroid removed and then go on that awful low thyroid diet, I was a bariton for awhile and so it was easy to sing in their octave. As my voice climbs higher it isn't so easy but, the women get to sing chant in our octave during Holy Week. And, if I can make it to Mass on weekdays mornings, the congregation sings Gregorian Chant Masses, we know 16. I just have to get there and remember my Kyriale!
I hope I get to one day!
You're starting to sound a little like Pope Lazamataz :-).
" You cannot deny the SSPX is using a different Mass Rite than the current normative Rite. "
Sure I can. The Tridentine Rite was never suppressed, it WAS the 'normative' Mass and it sill is valid and legal for every priest in the Latin Rite.
" Re hierarchy: I assume you are willing to concede they have a separate hierarchy now, and that this has been true since 1988..."
Talk about word games! They have the SAME hierarchical structure they were chartered with, they have not changed that.
As for the Catechism, the "Modern" Catechism (like the many flavors of "modern" liturgy) has been translated and retranslated and yet the Baltimore Catechism is still legal, still (and always will be) Catholic and suffers none of the odd problem that plague the modern versions.
The Neos aren't continueing to use what the Church was using during their lifetime, they are crafting (as have many others in the Church) an entirely different faith than the one they were given. The SSPX has taught nothing that the Church didn't teach within most of our lifetimes - they reject the heretical and embrace the Traditional.
You have to be joking. While the Tridentine was once the norm, it is not currently the normative Rite. It just isnt, and to deny that is to go beyond mere argumentation, it is to step into a fantasy land. Good luck narses, but if you cant even admit what the current normative Rite of the Mass is, there is no point in discussion with you. It is absolutely pointless to respond to the remainder of your post. You are too far gone." You cannot deny the SSPX is using a different Mass Rite than the current normative Rite. "Sure I can. The Tridentine Rite was never suppressed, it WAS the 'normative' Mass and it sill is valid and legal for every priest in the Latin Rite.
OK, when was the Tridentine Rite suppressed? By what decree?
>>>OK, when was the Tridentine Rite suppressed? By what decree?
Narses, I have better things to do than argue SSPX fantasies again. There is one normative Rite for the western clergy. That is just how it is, and if you can't recognize that reality, like I said, its a waste of time to argue this with you. The Tridentine is valid, but its limited to the indult. The Novus Ordo is the normative Rite for the West. Sophistry hardly changes that.
Sure, no way can you argue the point. The reality is this, the Normative Mass was the Tridentine. It was NEVER suppressed. The Novus Ordo was added. They co-exist.
If you have any intellectual curiosity, explore the question - when was the Tridentine Mass suppressed or replaced?
you wrote: If I were Pope, I'd publicly state, "Y'all have until Good Friday to get right with the Lord and the Church. That goes for anyone who goes to the illicit Masses of the SSPX to those who go to Neocatechumenal Liturgues and anyone else who opposes me. If y'all aren't in union with me, if you do not obey legitimate and Divinely Ordained authority, y'all can go to hell. Capiche? Y'all got to Good Friday. Period. Come the Monday after Easter, Y'all are excomunicated. That's it. We Popes haven't been doing our jobs. We have been too lenient. Good Friday, that ends. Good Friday is the day we bury leniency and tolerance. This Easter, the Church will rise purified and on fire. Y'all either with me or against me. Choose life or death."
Maybe the above is partly an attempt at humor but in case it's not it doesn't sound like the voice of the our Holy Father. This sounds like the sort of triumphalism that Vatican II was supposed to do away with in its attempt to bring the Gospel to the modern world. I do much prefer Pope Benedict's approach to that stated above. Are the Orthodox also just a bunch of hell-bound schizzies? What about the Chinese Patriotic catholics? What does the above say to Protestants if Catholics decide to pronounce anathemas on Christian groups who already agree with 98-99.5 of Church teaching? All Christian groups owe their existence to the Catholic Church, it's a historical fact, and all have elements of the truth in them, some a whole lot more than others. Launching emotional verbal tirades (as if such will truly convert people)shows about much charity as such useless utterances as "the NO is evil"
promote the truth. Faith, hope and charity and the greatest of these is
I like listening to [a] gentlemen's schola. Really, it's quite beautiful and quite freeing to be able to just kneel and listen.
Agreed, but women have been chanting the liturgy for centuries in abbbeys and monasteries around the world. I have the good fortune to live within driving distance of the Abbey of Regina Laudis. I have gone there for Vespers. The nuns' voices sounded angelic. It was a wonderful experience.
The choir I sing in has the men chant the Mass propers from the Liber Usualis and the men and women chant the ordinary of the Mass. We have started Vespers and Benediction once a month with both men and women chanting the Psalms. The men usually, but not always, chant the antiphons associated with the Psalms.
The abbey sounds lovely, but still, it's a schola. I wish more choirs around here would discover chant, but I'm afriad that if Adorote Devote scares them, an actual Mass would be terrifying.
*It could. He has free will
This sounds like the sort of triumphalism that Vatican II was supposed to do away with in its attempt to bring the Gospel to the modern world. I do much prefer Pope Benedict's approach to that stated above.
*Maybe so, but, mine is a lot more direct and therapeutic.
Are the Orthodox also just a bunch of hell-bound schizzies?
*No, and my post didn't address them, did it?
What about the Chinese Patriotic catholics?
*Same as for the Orthos
What does the above say to Protestants if Catholics decide to pronounce anathemas on Christian groups who already agree with 98-99.5 of Church teaching?
*The difference should be obvious without stating it. If it isn't clear to you, I will explain it. Those who I was writing about, the sspx and the NCW are/were born catholic. Protestants weren't. Different rules apply to different groups. THe SSPX and the NCW are opposing the Body of Christ they are/were part of.The individual born and raised in protestantism is a horse of a different color. He is doing what he was taught to do.
I am letting my subscription to Chronicles run out - for obvious reasons - but I gotta tell you about this latest issue "New words for old."
Bill Buckley is savagely and insanely attacked in the issue. Tom Fleming "Lost in translation" article cites a column by Buckley and concludes "Mr. Buckley's reality is of a piece with Mr. Bush's facts. Both are subjective mental states that can only be analyzed by speech therapists and abnormal psychologists. The bizarre speech of pundits and politicans reveals more than ignorance; Sloppy imagery, mixed metaphors, and confused syntax are indications of a mental disturbance that is somewhere between imbecility and dishonesty."
Sobran, predictably, attacks Buckley in an article "Conservatism's Ancient Mariner" in which he (after a few paragraphs praising Buckley's humor) derides Bill as, essentially, a faux conservative who took his marching orders from Mr and Mrs Podhoretz (Again with the Jews). Of course, Sobarn has written the same damn article about Bill repeatedly - several times in the Wanderer, in his own "Sobran's" and in the "Catholic Family News" He can't let it go.
PJB is another old horse recently welcomed into the Chronicles We hate Bush and Israel sucks Stable
Is it any wonder I am one of scores who are just letting their subscriptions run out?
BTW, the old BBC pundit, Srdja Trifkovic was recently (six weeks ago?) warning us that the President of Syria was an independent we could work with but the bad old Bushies were working behind the scenes to unhorse him. Trifkovic is often right but he sometimes makes insane statements in his "The American Interest" articles. And, need it be said it was in the American interest to, essentially, abandon Israel?
What is it with the "Paleos" and their antipathy towards the Jews and Israel?
Again, I know this is WAY off the topic but I just had to post something about this craziness.
I must admit that attitudes such as this leave me speechless.
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