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To: bornacatholic
As seems to be my way, I appear to be getting hit from both sides on this thread.
Not me. Pope Benedict said our Church would be much smaller in the future. Time for him to start swinging the scythe and start lopping off the heads of all of these schismatic heretics.
Two things. First, there is a vast difference between expecting a smaller Church and hoping for a smaller Church. Your verbiage makes me think you lean farther to the latter than I would be comfortable with.

Second, they are clearly not schismatic. The Pope's statements, if nothing else, cannot help but make that clear, and you have no business contending you can override his statements about them. He determines who is schismatic or not, and where he has ruled you cannot contradict, or you are guilty of the same thing you wish to accuse them of.

So long as the Holy Father continues to work with them and recognize them, they are not schismatic.

As to heresy, I'll look forward to your proof for that statement. Please prove the order is heretical.

Honestly, as a faithful Catholic who has seen AmChurch run my Faith into the ground, I can tell you that much of the time I am frustrated and angry at the refusal of the Papacy to apply discipline that could (would?) put us back on the path to ecclesiastical sanity.
Me too.

patent

58 posted on 01/20/2006 9:54:27 AM PST by patent (A baby is God's opinion that life should go on. Carl Sandburg)
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To: patent
Second, they are clearly not schismatic. The Pope's statements, if nothing else, cannot help but make that clear, and you have no business contending you can override his statements about them. He determines who is schismatic or not, and where he has ruled you cannot contradict, or you are guilty of the same thing you wish to accuse them of.

So long as the Holy Father continues to work with them and recognize them, they are not schismatic.

"Benedict XVI has ordered that all of this come to an end. He did this through a letter delivered in mid-December to the three main leaders of the Way: Kiko, Carmen, and the Italian priest Mario Pezzi. The letter was signed by cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Vatican congregation for the liturgy, but from its very first lines it clearly states that these are “the decisions of the Holy Father.” Six unambiguous commands follow.

For example, regarding communion, the exact dispositions of the letter are these:

“On the manner of receiving Holy Communion, a period of transition (not exceeding two years) is granted to the Neocatechumenal Way to pass from the widespread manner of receiving Holy Communion in its communities (seated, with a cloth-covered table placed at the center of the church instead of the dedicated altar in the sanctuary) to the normal way in which the entire Church receives Holy Communion. This means that the Neocatechumenal Way must begin to adopt the manner of distributing the Body and Blood of Christ that is provided in the liturgical books.” (2)

But instead of simply obeying, the Neocatechumenals disobeyed while asserting that they were perfectly obedient."

***************

In my opinion, the situation described above is a schism. While Pope Benedict may be trying to work with them and bring them back into the fold, they are still currently in schism.

schism

One entry found for schism.

Main Entry: schism

Pronunciation: 'si-z&m, 'ski- also 'shi-; among clergy usually 'si-

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English scisme, from Middle French cisme, from Late Latin schismat-, schisma, from Greek, cleft, division, from schizein to split -- more at SHED

1 : DIVISION, SEPARATION; also : DISCORD, DISHARMONY

2 a : formal division in or separation from a church or religious body b : the offense of promoting schism

61 posted on 01/20/2006 10:15:00 AM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: patent

http://sspx.org/Catholic_FAQs/jews_guilty_of_deicide.htm


69 posted on 01/20/2006 12:20:19 PM PST by bornacatholic (And that's just for starters)
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To: patent
1 Timothy Them that sin reprove before all: that the rest also may have fear.

* The Pope is using the language of romance and being quite gentle with them. Fine. He is Pope.

I ain't. I am calling a schismatic spade a schismatic spade. I see no virtue in pretending what clearly is isn't. The Pope said "do this." They said "nope."

Romans 16: 17 Now I beseech you, brethren, to mark them who make dissensions and offences contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, and avoid them. 18 For they that are such, serve not Christ our Lord, but their own belly; and by pleasing speeches and good words, seduce the hearts of the innocent.

*IMO, we laymen in America have been feminized and far too many are fearful of calling a spade a spade.

75 posted on 01/20/2006 12:43:45 PM PST by bornacatholic
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