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To: trisham
>>>>In my opinion, the situation described above is a schism. While Pope Benedict may be trying to work with them and bring them back into the fold, they are still currently in schism. If that's all it took to be in schism nearly all of us would be in schism at some level. There have been alot of unambiguous commands from the Pope's I've failed to live up to - I'm a proven repeated sinner.

You provided a dictionary definition of schism. That's fine, but which part of it do you think they fail? The first "1 : DIVISION, SEPARATION; also : DISCORD, DISHARMONY" is one we nearly all meet at some point. Its also entirely too vague to actually be applied. The second, "2 a : formal division in or separation from a church or religious body b : the offense of promoting schism" is clearly not met here, as there is no formal seperation. The Pope clearly recognizes them as inside the Church. I don't know why you guys insist on throwing the schism word so recklessly when the Pope clearly disagrees. He defines the issue, not us.

patent

63 posted on 01/20/2006 10:44:10 AM PST by patent (A baby is God's opinion that life should go on. Carl Sandburg)
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To: patent
If that's all it took to be in schism nearly all of us would be in schism at some level. There have been alot of unambiguous commands from the Pope's I've failed to live up to - I'm a proven repeated sinner.

I see what you mean. Perhaps this will be of use:

From a search of The Holy See:

"Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271"

www.vatican

You provided a dictionary definition of schism. That's fine, but which part of it do you think they fail? The first "1 : DIVISION, SEPARATION; also : DISCORD, DISHARMONY" is one we nearly all meet at some point. Its also entirely too vague to actually be applied. The second, "2 a : formal division in or separation from a church or religious body b : the offense of promoting schism" is clearly not met here, as there is no formal seperation. The Pope clearly recognizes them as inside the Church. I don't know why you guys insist on throwing the schism word so recklessly when the Pope clearly disagrees. He defines the issue, not us.

Yes, I agree that this is defined by the Pope. I should have consulted a more appropriate source.

From The Holy See:

"2089 Incredulity is the neglect of revealed truth or the willful refusal to assent to it. "Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him."11"

www.vatican

There is a difference between the sins of an individual, and the persistent defiance of a group which has officially separated itself from the Church.

76 posted on 01/20/2006 12:55:25 PM PST by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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