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The Holy Trinity
3/19/06 | Carl Eldredge

Posted on 03/19/2006 6:25:15 PM PST by whispering out loud

This is something God showed me through the scriptures, which has really helped me to understand who God is, in all of is person. Firstly we know that God is three in his manifestation through God the Father, Jesus the Son, the Holy Spirit. We also know that God is one, Jesus said in his word “The Father and I are one”, He also said, “If you’ve seen me, you’ve also seen my father who is in heaven”. So God is three, and God is one, how can this be?

God helped me to understand this first by helping me understand that man is a three fold being, being body mind and spirit. Our mind being the controlling unit, it is our mind that bids us to do the things we do. Our body is the physical action part of our being we can do no physical action apart from our bodies, no mater how hard our mind wills it. Our spirit is our essence, it is the eternal part of us, as well as the part that ministers to and comforts others. Each of these three parts having their own individual functions, work together to accomplish the same goal.

Secondly God helped me to remember that we are created in the image and likeness of this same God. That being said God the Father is the mind, “the controlling unit” God (the trinity) does nothing apart from the will of the Father, see John 5:30, and Matt 26:42. Just as God the Father is the mind, Jesus is the body. He is the action part of God no physical action took place ever without Him. Even in creation he was present, in John chapter 1 He was called the word, and it was said that nothing was created without him. In Genesis and the creation account, God spoke the world into existence we speak words. Jesus was the words God spoke in the creation of the world making him the action part of creation. Jesus was also the action part of salvation apart from his death and resurrection we would have no hope of salvation. The Holy Spirit is somewhat self explanatory, he is the essence of God Jesus called him the comforter. Also present in the creation, Genesis 1:2 says, “The spirit of God moved upon the faces of the waters”.

Putting this together, The Trinity of God is three parts of one God, each having their own function yet working together to complete one divine purpose. The trinity was present in creation in all of its members, and the trinity is in full effect today. I hope this helps you as much as it helped me when God showed me. Just a little extra something for you, and this one’s free. We know that God cannot lie it is against His nature, but some food for thought. God’s word is so powerful that even if He could lie, the moment it left his lips, it would become truth. So even if he could lie, he still couldn’t lie.


TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Orthodox Christian; Other Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; holytrinity; religionisobsolete
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Hope this helps someone.
1 posted on 03/19/2006 6:25:18 PM PST by whispering out loud
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To: whispering out loud

Beautiful. :)


2 posted on 03/19/2006 6:45:37 PM PST by Sweetjustusnow ("You're either with us or with the terrorists." Time to live up to that statement Mr. President.)
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To: whispering out loud
I agree that God whose name is Jesus is the Father, the son, and the Holy spirit.

But I do not believe in the term trinity. It is no where to be found in the Holy Bible. If it is not in the Bible then it is made of man, and should be questioned as truth.

Jesus is God with three positions to perform. Like I am a Husband, father, and son.
3 posted on 03/19/2006 7:51:39 PM PST by Creationist (If the earth is old show me your proof. Salvation from the judgment of your sins is free.)
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To: Creationist
John 1;1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God.

Several times throughout the scriptures, Christ prayed to the Father. I would submit to you, that the Father, Spirit and Jesus, are three parts of the same Deity, not necessarily three jobs. Had you read my whole post you would have seen the reasoning for this pattern of thought, as well as the scriptural backing.

4 posted on 03/19/2006 8:00:56 PM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: Creationist

Jesus, Jehovah and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities that always work in perfect union. While the word "Trinity" is not in the New Testament, the concept is. The best place to see it is in Matthew 3:16-17. The setting is the baptism of Jesus. Notice how all three entities are manifested at the same time but in three different places. Jesus is coming up out of the water, the Holy Spirity is descending as a dove, and Jehovah is speaking from heaven.


5 posted on 03/19/2006 8:11:12 PM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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Ping to check out later


6 posted on 03/19/2006 8:33:54 PM PST by Alex Murphy (Colossians 4:5)
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To: whispering out loud

When God speaks, whatever it is comes to pass. Note in Genesis..."and God said" is repeated many times, why, to alert us to the fact that when He says something, it happens. The silliest example would be to say...if God said there was a second Tuesday in the week, we would be changing our calendars.


7 posted on 03/20/2006 5:18:04 AM PST by bro.Ray
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To: Creationist
In my previous post, I forgot to bring to you the history of the word trinity. The word trinity comes from the Latin tri-unum, tri meaning three, unum meaning unified, or brought together as one. It was not a scriptural term, but it was introduced to help understand the many scriptural references to the three distinct parts of God, yet the solid statement in scriptures that the Lord our God is One.
8 posted on 03/20/2006 5:30:06 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: bro.Ray

yes, this is exactly what makes my last statement true, even if it wasn't against his nature to lie, he still could not lie due to the power of his word.


9 posted on 03/20/2006 7:57:12 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: tenn2005
Very good, except "Jehovah" is speaking. Jehovah = the Godhead, which includes all three persons. More properly, God the Father is speaking from heaven.

Regards

10 posted on 03/20/2006 9:02:51 AM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
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To: tenn2005; Creationist

Hi tenn2005! pardon me wilst I make a few comments.

You said **Notice how all three entities are manifested at the same time but in three different places. Jesus is coming up out of the water, the Holy Spirity is descending as a dove, and Jehovah is speaking from heaven.**

It is a small thing for one omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent Spirit of God (John 4:23,24) to do, not 1, not 2, not 3, but countless operations..at..the..same..time.

The Christ was fully man, but also God, because he was filled with the only God, "....for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. The Father loveth the Son, and hath given (I repeat: g i v e n ! ) ALL THINGS into his hands." John 3:34,35

"For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." Col. 2:9

A television has a body (the unit itself), a visual sign from out of thin air (on the screen), and a voice from out of thin air (on the speaker), but the electricity is the SOURCE of the power.

Who was healing the sick? God was.
Who was feeding the multitudes? God was.
Who was raising the dead? God was.

That's how the Christ died. The Father had left his body so he COULD die ("My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?). The Almighty God that fed multitudes, could have sustained that mortally wounded body (that had a man's soul in it) indefinitely.

The Godhead topic is one I really enjoy discussing.


11 posted on 03/20/2006 8:16:36 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel

I am glad that you enjoy discussing the trinity. I am not Catholic and agree with very little that they teach. However, in the matter of the trinity I believe that they may be correct.

Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God..." The word used here for God is Elohim. The word is plural. In Genesis 1:26 God said, "let us (pl) make man in our (pl) image." The message here us clearly that God is a more than one.

In Matthew 28:19 Jesus commands the apostles to baptise in the name of "The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. All of these references indicate that God is a triumvirate.


12 posted on 03/20/2006 9:40:26 PM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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To: whispering out loud; the-ironically-named-proverbs2; Eagle Eye
We also know that God is one, Jesus said in his word “The Father and I are one”,

If Jesus is G-d, why is he so bad at math? Shouldn't he have said two-thirds? :-\

13 posted on 03/20/2006 10:08:58 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal (As it was in the days of NO...)
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To: Thinkin' Gal
did you read the whole post? God the Father is not one third of the Godhead, He is the entire mind of God, Jesus is the entire flesh, and physical works of God, and The Holy spirit is the entire Spirit of God. To call each of these a third, is a misstatement, each of these comprises their entire realm of Gods nature.
14 posted on 03/21/2006 5:05:33 AM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: whispering out loud
The almighty God could have as many manifestation as He wants. Three is easy for our small minds.

Heck, water has three manifestation: liquid, solid, and gas.

Don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain.

5.56mm

15 posted on 03/21/2006 5:11:54 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: M Kehoe
You forgot the "s" boozo. Sheesh.

5.56mm

16 posted on 03/21/2006 5:13:32 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: whispering out loud
Hope this helps someone

More insane dribble.

Someone needs help.

BTW, by calling GtF the controlling unit of the trininty aren't you negating the part of the creed that says that they are co-equal? Or is it tri equal?

Whatever, the trinity is a modern resurrection of Baal worship.

17 posted on 03/21/2006 5:18:08 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Thinkin' Gal

I can easily explain God's relationship to Jesus and Jesus' relationship to us with terms straight from the Bible and backed up solidly with quoted scripture.

To explain the trinity, they must use non biblical terms that require twisting scriptures and ignoring others.

Jesus was either a man who came entirely in the flesh or he wasn't. The Bible says he was. Trinitarians say he wasn't.


18 posted on 03/21/2006 5:22:18 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: M Kehoe
Heck, water has three manifestation: liquid, solid, and gas.

But not at the same time. They are not co equal or co eternal.

Jesus had a genesis ... a beginning at birth.

19 posted on 03/21/2006 5:26:39 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye
Good morning.

But not at the same time. They are not co equal or co eternal.

I think you missed my point. It was in the first sentence of my post. No matter.

5.56mm

20 posted on 03/21/2006 5:42:10 AM PST by M Kehoe
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To: tenn2005

**Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God..." The word used here for God is Elohim. The word is plural.**

Plural, as in infinite? After all, God cannot be measured.

**In Genesis 1:26 God said, "let us (pl) make man in our (pl) image." The message here us clearly that God is a more than one.**

Yes, "our" is plural. As in dual nature: Almighty Spirit of God (the Father), and foreordained plan of having a fleshly body, or "image" (not images) complete with a soul (the Son).

"God, who....calleth those things which be not as though they were." Rom. 4:17

"Having made known unto us the mystery of HIS will, according to HIS good pleasure which HE hath purposed in HIMSELF: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times HE might gather together in one ALL things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him" (the Father is in the Son). "In whom also we" (the church) "have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated" (the church) "according to the purpose of HIM who worketh ALL things after the counsel of HIS own will." Eph. 1:9-11

Foreordained, for He said, "Thou art my Son, this day have I BEGOTTEN thee". Ps 2:7. "but when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, MADE of a woman, MADE under the law." Gal. 4:4

'Eternal' and 'begotten' are practically opposite in definition.

It's simple: The Father is Spirit (John 4:23,24) and the Son is fleshly man (doing what 'the Father in him' shows him to do. John 5:19-27 and 14:9-13)

**In Matthew 28:19 Jesus commands the apostles to baptise in the name of "The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.**

Note: "name" is singular.

And what did the apostles do? They didn't simply repeat a command, they obeyed it. When my boss tells me to use his authority to tell a new client what we will/can do for them, I don't say, "My boss has asked me to tell you....", without first making sure they know his name.

Jesus said: "I am come in my Father's name.." John 5:43
Jesus is the name of the Son. "..and thou shalt call his name Jesus.." Matt. 1:21
Jesus said: "..the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name.." John 14:26

Acts 4:12 "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

That is why when the apostles OBEYED Matt. 28:19, they baptized in the name of Jesus: Acts 2:38; 8:12,16; 19:5; baptized in the name of the Lord (obviously, that is Jesus) Acts 10:48
We are to be buried with HIM in baptism. Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12

Some my say, "It doesn't say they used the name Jesus in every instance of baptism recorded in Acts." True, some passages just say 'baptized' with no name mentioned. Isn't it strange that there is no repeating of Matt. 28:19 in baptism in all of the remainder of the NT? Not to me.

Suppose you moved to a different town to find a new life. How many times would you need to be told word by word, step by step, how to get to a new job/grocery store/church house? Once, twice, thrice? (I know, I know, there's times I wish I could forget how to get to the workplace).

That's why, when one gets finnished reading Acts, baptism in the name of Jesus should be the obvious answer to Matt. 28:19. Of course, that is the case when one is not shackled to centuries of religious tradition that has refused to adhere to the Word, either ignorantly or knowingly (they gotta keep the money coming in, even if it requires 'changes' in the apostles doctrine, ya know) . The Devil knows the power of Jesus name, and within hours of that birthday of the church, set into motion counterfiets (that would appear religious, even 'Christian', but not have the power of the name).


Sorry about the length. I said I like to discuss the Godhead, and it shows, I suppose.


21 posted on 03/21/2006 10:58:06 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Eagle Eye

**To explain the trinity, they must use non biblical terms that require twisting scriptures and ignoring others.**

True.


22 posted on 03/21/2006 11:04:06 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel

When I baptise someone I always say "In the name of the Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit." (Matt 28:19)

Please show me any scripture where any Apostle ever said anything different. And don't give me a scripture that says what they "did," give me a scripture that states what they "said".


23 posted on 03/21/2006 11:13:52 AM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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To: tenn2005
Please show me any scripture where any Apostle ever said anything different.

Please show us scriptures where they actually said that.

If this was such a monumental command from God Almighty one would think that they would have followed it. But they didn't.

24 posted on 03/21/2006 11:29:14 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye; Zuriel; Creationist; Thinkin' Gal
More insane dribble. Someone needs help.

I'll not forget the way you put this a few months ago on another thread. I wrote it down.

You said....."To support the idea of a three in one God head you have to use terms not found in the Bible, rely on false scripture, rely on twisted interpretations that contradict extremely clear scriptures and create a convoluted theory that no one really understands, forcing its adherents to declare it a mystery."

Best description of the "Trinity Doctrine" that I have ever heard.

25 posted on 03/21/2006 3:17:36 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: whispering out loud

http://www.probe.org/content/view/45/77/

You may find this interesting.

jw


26 posted on 03/21/2006 3:57:58 PM PST by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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To: whispering out loud; All
In the Beginning was the Word. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"YHvH saves" as in Psalm 118-14 is Yahoshua

followed by "He saves" in the same verse which yields Y'shua

Our hope is in Y'shua HaMashiach ( Jesus the Christ )
or the anointed one who is YHvH who has become our salvation.

If we look into the Holy Word of G-d , we find:
Psalm 92:15 ..... "YHvH is upright; he is my Rock, and there is no wickedness in him."

and

Psalm 118-14 YHvH is my strength and song, And He(YHvH) has become my salvation(Y'shua).

But

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel! YHvH is Elohym, YHvH is one!

and repeated by Y'shua in Mark(for Peter)

Mark 12:29 Y'shua answered, "The foremost is, 'HEAR, O ISRAEL! YHvH OUR Elohym IS ONE('echad) YHvH;

Echad means one as in "one flesh" as in :

Genesis 2:24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.

The Name above all other names.

b'shem Y'shua

27 posted on 03/21/2006 4:04:30 PM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Trust in YHvH forever, for the LORD, YHvH is the Rock eternal. (Isaiah 26:4))
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To: Eagle Eye

"If this was such a monumental command from God Almighty one would think that they would have followed it. But they didn't."

If you don't know what they said than don't acccuse them of disobeying Jesus last command.


28 posted on 03/21/2006 4:08:38 PM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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To: whispering out loud
Trinity Sunday (and the Trinity season)

HaSheeloosh HaKadosh: The Holy Trinity

Trinitarian Mystery

MARY’S RELATIONSHIP WITH THE TRINITY

The Divine Trinity

29 posted on 03/21/2006 4:09:29 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Eagle Eye
wrong answer, go back and reread John chapter 1

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. And by him were all things made, and with him was nothing made that was made. Verse 14, And the Word became flesh and dwelt among men.

This passage was clearly talking about Christ, and it was made crystal clear that he was there from the beginning.

30 posted on 03/21/2006 4:17:39 PM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: Eagle Eye

Jesus had a genesis ... a beginning at birth.

Well then who was G-d speaking to when he said in Gen 1:26 Let us make man in OUR image? ( We are triune as well with a physical body, a spirit and a mind or soul and therefore we are made in His image) Why he was speaking to His son and the Holy Spirit. and Gen 1:2 says the Spirit of G-d was hovering above the waters. If indeed G-d has no beginning and no end then doesn't that mean that His son and Spirit already existed with Him?


31 posted on 03/21/2006 4:17:54 PM PST by brwnsuga (Proud, Black, Conservative!)
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To: Eagle Eye

creed, I'm sorry, I've heard of no creed, that must be part of the Catholic doctrine, I'm not Catholic.


32 posted on 03/21/2006 4:20:26 PM PST by whispering out loud (the bible is either 100% true, or in it's very nature it is 100% a lie)
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To: brwnsuga

**( We are triune as well with a physical body, a spirit and a mind or soul and therefore we are made in His image)**

Is your body, spirit, and soul separate and distinct? Co-equal? Co-eternal?

Just curious, why do some prefer (as you) to spell God with a hyphen in place of the 'o'. Why the 'o' instead of the 'd'?


33 posted on 03/21/2006 5:45:35 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Eagle Eye; the-ironically-named-proverbs2; Diego1618
When it is said that this, that, or the other doctrine needs to be "taken on faith", my question is, "Faith in what?"

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

What exactly did Noah believe? The word of Hashem.
What exactly did Abraham believe? The word of Hashem.

They knew that when Hashem speaks, He speaks the truth always. His word is true. Same for the others who live "by faith." They had faith in Hashem's words because the source of the message is Hashem, who does not lie. To believe Hashem is to believe what He says.

So back to doctrines that need to be taken "on faith". "By faith" has been slickly redefined to mean faith in vague/incomplete/convoluted explanations by those who peddle the doctrines of men. Otherwise the words of Scripture would not be so "difficult" and "confusing". One must choose to have faith in expositors, when the expositors contradict the plain words of Hashem.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

To be content - to trust - scholarly claims, without the interest/motivation to examine these doctrines against the word of Hashem (starting with Torah and the Neviim), is not characteristic of those who diligently seek Him.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

By me = the way, the truth , and life

Proverbs 12:28 In the way of righteousness [is] life; and [in] the pathway [thereof there is] no death.

Hebrews 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked* with God: and he was not; for God took him.

*01980 halak {haw-lak'}
akin to 03212, a primitive root; TWOT - 498; v
AV - go 217, walk 156, come 16, ...away 7, ...along 6, misc 98; 500

1) to go, walk, come
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to go, walk, come, depart, proceed, move, go away
1a2) to die, live, manner of life (fig.)
1b) (Piel)
1b1) to walk
1b2) to walk (fig.)
1c) (Hithpael)
1c1) to traverse
1c2) to walk about
1d) (Niphal) to lead, bring, lead away, carry, cause to walk


Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

The way (path of righteousness) is to believe (and therefore do) the word of Hashem... He is what He is... truth. His messengers speak the same language: truth. Paul told the Corinthian church that they were 1) the body of Christ, and 2) the temple of G-d. If the word is literally G-d who is Jesus (as claimed from John 1), then the church (the body of Christ) is making itself G-d.


2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Christian interpretations of the above pin the rap on the Jews... as if Torah-observant Jews are going to worship a man as G-d. The Torah-free zone is the church.

1 Corinthians 3:16-17 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? 17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

34 posted on 03/21/2006 6:01:47 PM PST by Thinkin' Gal (As it was in the days of NO...)
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To: tenn2005; Eagle Eye

**Please show me any scripture where any Apostle ever said anything different. And don't give me a scripture that says what they "did," give me a scripture that states what they "said".**

Do you say one thing, and do another? Some would call that hypocrisy.

Please....please tell me you're not a professional blamer (lawyer). :-) (actually, I am good friends with four lawyers).

I can only recommend that you read my posts over again, slower.

As Eagle Eye (maybe he should be Owl Eye) very wisely asked, show a scripture where the apostles repeated Matt. 28:19 during a baptism.

I smell cook'in in the kitchen, gotta go!


35 posted on 03/21/2006 6:34:47 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Zuriel

"As Eagle Eye (maybe he should be Owl Eye) very wisely asked, show a scripture where the apostles repeated Matt. 28:19 during a baptism."

And I said that there in no record of what the Apostles or anyone else "said" during a baptism.

Jesus commanded them to baptise in the name of "The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit.(Matt 28:19) I have no reason to believe that they did not carry out this command. You, on the other hand want to claim that they disobeyed Jesus' instruction because there is no record of them saying those exact words when baptising someone. You are arguing from the silence of the scripture and that is a very dangerous position to argue from.


36 posted on 03/21/2006 7:43:09 PM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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To: tenn2005

**You, on the other hand want to claim that they disobeyed Jesus' instruction because there is no record of them saying those exact words when baptising someone.**

Disobeyed? Not at all. They understood the command and followed it by baptizing in the name of Jesus. ("I come in my Father's name.." Father's name must be Jesus. The Son's name is Jesus. "..the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name.." And that would be Jesus. too)

**And I said that there in no record of what the Apostles or anyone else "said" during a baptism.**

Actions speak louder than words. THE RECORD SEZ WHAT THEY DID!

"..only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus". Acts 8:16
"..they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus." Acts 19:5
Notice they didn't repeat Matt. 28:19, they fullfilled it.

There's a lot of preaching to the lost in Acts, but many of the sermons are not printed in full, with direct quotes. Does that mean that maybe the entire gospel message was not told in those cases? We both know the answer to that question.

I've given numerous scriptures in posts 11 and 21. I believe they harmonize with each other. That's the way to discuss doctrine. Lots of scripture.

Lord willing, this can be discussed further tomorrow. Goodnight, friend.


37 posted on 03/21/2006 8:40:11 PM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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To: Diego1618

If you will read John chapters 14 to 17 with an open mind you will find that Jesus speaks of Himself, God, and the Holy Spirit as three distinct intities. Notice specifically the following verses.

14:16 Jesus will pray to God and God will send the apostles another helper.
14:17 That other helper will be the Spirit of Truth (Holy Spirit)
14:25 Jesus had taught them some things while present with them.
14:26 But the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send will teach them all things.
14:28 Jesus is going back to the Father who is "greater than Jesus."
16:7 If Jesus does not "go away", the Holy Sprit will not "Come."
16:12 Jesus still has much to teach them, but they were not yet ready to hear those things.
16:13 They will be taught those additional things at a later date by the Holy Spirit.

The record shows that Jesus kept his word and sent the Holy Spirit to guide the Apostles. (Acts 2:1-4)

The entirety of Hebrews, chapter 1, sets Jesus up as an intity searate and apart from the Father. John 3:16 makes this distinction very clear also.

Notice also Acts 7:55-56 Stephen, while being stoned, being filled with the "Holy Spirit", looked up and saw the heavens opened and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.
Here we see the Holy Spirit, Jesus and God at the same time in different locations and as separate entities.

The same is true following the baptism of Jesus. (Matt 3:16-17) Jesus is coming out of the water, the Holy Spirit is descending in the form of a dove, and God is Speaking from heaven. Again the three separate entities in three separate locations at the same time.

In I Cor 15:24-28 Paul shows the superior authority of God (the Father) over Jesus (the Son).

I could go on for page after page but it is very clear from scripture that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate and distinct entities always working in perfect harmony and purpose.


38 posted on 03/21/2006 8:44:20 PM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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To: tenn2005
one....not three
39 posted on 03/21/2006 9:03:01 PM PST by Diego1618
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To: Eagle Eye
Whatever, the trinity is a modern resurrection of Baal worship.

A hearty amen. :-)

40 posted on 03/21/2006 9:11:53 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Diego1618

My wife of 42 years and I are one also (Gen 2:24) but that does not keep us from being separate entities.


41 posted on 03/21/2006 9:19:56 PM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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To: Eagle Eye

"Whatever, the trinity is a modern resurrection of Baal worship."

Care to explain that?


42 posted on 03/21/2006 9:23:49 PM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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To: Eagle Eye

"Whatever, the trinity is a modern resurrection of Baal worship."

Care to explain that?


43 posted on 03/21/2006 9:25:05 PM PST by tenn2005 (Birth is merely an event; it is the path walked that becomes one's life.)
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To: Thinkin' Gal; Is2C
>>>"By faith" has been slickly redefined to mean faith in vague/incomplete/convoluted explanations by those who peddle the doctrines of men. Otherwise the words of Scripture would not be so "difficult" and "confusing". One must choose to have faith in expositors, when the expositors contradict the plain words of Hashem.

The normal routine that is used to explain the "difficult and confusing" doctrines of men usually involves one verse of scripture (if you're lucky) and then 10 paragraphs of "explanation". Sort of like most sermons.

>>>"The Torah-free zone is the church."

Isn't that the truth. I had a pastor of a local Baptist church coming by to invite me to his church. He was a very nice man who walked-the-walk. He used to be a missionary in Haiti. I was encouraged and was thinking about going to a service but when I asked if they ever studied the OT he bluntly said no. I don't get it. What do these people think is meant by the term "scriptures" in the NT?

44 posted on 03/22/2006 5:29:46 AM PST by the-ironically-named-proverbs2
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To: tenn2005; whispering out loud; brwnsuga; Salvation; Diego1618; thinkinggal; Zuriel; ...
I could go on for page after page but it is very clear from scripture that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are three separate and distinct entities always working in perfect harmony and purpose.

Paul said that there is one God and one mediator between men and God the MAN Christ Jesus;

God is not a man that he should lie nor the son of man that he should repent;

Jesus is repeatedly called the Son of Man to empahsize his humanity;

God is spirit and no man has seen God at any time; Jesus came in the flesh (in as entirely and wholely in) and was viisble;

God is the Father of Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God; God did not die on the cross, Jesus did not resurrect himself nor did he raise himself to sit at his own right hand.

Look in Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:

The Lord God is not three, but one!

Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.

Anyone who claims that God is three is openly and blatantly defying scripture, the words of God and the words of Jesus.

Jesus had a separate will from God...not my will but thine be done...which also shows that he is not God.

Jesus is not God and God is not Jesus.

The Baalim was the satanic counterfeit of Jehova worship. It fooled Israel left and right. It was idolotry.

The scriptures expose it for what it was, but it was not so easily discerned by those there at the time, just as trinitarian doctrine fools many today.

Just the word trinity rules out monotheism. Three cannot be one. It is insanity to insist for it to be such.

Get a Youngs and do a word study of Baal and derivatieves. You'll see that he was the lord/master of many things.

Look at Jehova and you'll also see that God Almighty described His relationship with Israel by different names...Lord of Hosts, Lord of Peace, Lord that Provides, Lord that Heals, etc.

BUT THE LORD GOD IS ONE LORD, ONE GOD!!!

The Baalim was the satanic counterfeit and always uses the definate article "the" just as "the" trinity does.

And when one looks at how trinintarian doctrine ignores and twists scriptures and defies logic, it isn't hard to see that the baalim = the trinity.

When the Bible says "God" it means God. When is says "Jesus" it means Jesus.

They are two separate entities that share a purpose and to the extent that Jesus submits himself to God, they share a will.

Jesus so completely represented God to those with him that he was ablet to say that if you have seen me you have seen the Father.

Pretty simple concept; when I represent my employer, others don't need to see the Boss...I am sent to do his bidding and have his authority as long as I act in his will.

Did Jesus do God's will? Of course. God PLAINLY called Jesus his son and said he was well pleased with him. God is not Jesus; Jesus is not God.

Why would anyone discard about 50 clear verses that say that Jesus is the Son of God in order to find a handful of more difficult verses that seem to be ambiguous? This defies logic and proper principles of Biblical study; understand the clear and simple before tackling the difficult and challenging.

Is this enough for one posting?

45 posted on 03/22/2006 6:32:00 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye; All
Isaiah 9:6 - For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace

John 20:27-28 Then He said to Thomas, "Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Romans 9:3-5 - For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.

God is spirit and no man has seen God at any time

Who did Adam and Eve see walking in the garden?
Who did Isaiah see sitting on the throne?
Who did Abraham sup with?
Who did Moses see in the cleft of the rock?

JM
46 posted on 03/22/2006 6:59:47 AM PST by JohnnyM
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To: JohnnyM
Again, you are failing to understand the unclear in light of the clear verses. Now you are going into some slighty more advanced areas, but no problem to me.

Your first jab regrading names: so what? A name doesn't make it a literal truth. Was Sarah truly a princess? Was Peter literally a rock or stone? No.

Your second regarding Thomas is the figure of speech hendiadys which is two words to emphasize one thought. This is no more literal than when Jesus called Peter 'satan' ('get thee behind me satan!)

Figures of speech are legitimate uses of language but one has to know when and where they are. Try verses that with lists and many "ands" (and Peter and Paul and Joseph...). That is polysyndoton. Lists with no "ands" is the figure asyndodon.

Did you know that puctuation does not exist in the cursives or uncils? ('original' greek texts) Since all puntuation in the KJV is manmade, there are errors in it. Thus, interpret inlight of clear verses.

Who did these people see? It wasn't God that they literally saw...unless you care to do battle with these clear and in context verses that say that God is invisible and unseen by man.

Jhn 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen.

1Jo 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

(speaking of Jesus) Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Ok, got the point? Clear verses first to set the ground rules, then use these guides to interpret the rest and then you'll get harmony and clarity from the scriptures.

47 posted on 03/22/2006 7:17:40 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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To: Eagle Eye
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Genesis 3
8 They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.
9 Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?"

Are you then saying that the LORD God who was walking in the Garden was Jesus?

JM
48 posted on 03/22/2006 7:22:50 AM PST by JohnnyM
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To: Eagle Eye
Your first jab regrading names: so what? A name doesn't make it a literal truth. Was Sarah truly a princess? Was Peter literally a rock or stone? No.

I'm sorry but calling someone God is serious business in the Bible. The passage in Isaiah was God speaking to Isaiah. I'm sure it meant something.

What about worship? We are told to worship God alone, yet we find the disciples worshipping Jesus.

Matthew 28:9 - And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.

JM
49 posted on 03/22/2006 7:28:20 AM PST by JohnnyM
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To: JohnnyM
Are you then saying that the LORD God who was walking in the Garden was Jesus?

Of course not! You'd do well to read up a couple posts to a long one I posted this morning.

God is not Jesus; Jesus is not God.

If you are going to stick to your current argument, it is up to you to decide which of the scriptures is wrong, untrue, or incorrect when it says that no one has seen God.

And btw, Jesus had his genesis at his birth.

Was he with God in God's foreknowledge? Sure. So were you and so was I.

50 posted on 03/22/2006 7:30:20 AM PST by Eagle Eye (There ought to be a law against excess legislation.)
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