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Pope Against Pop Music In Mass
Adnkronos International ^ | 06262006 | AKI

Posted on 06/26/2006 11:48:53 AM PDT by FJ290

Vatican City, 26 June (AKI) - Pope Benedict XVI has called for traditional sacred music to be played during mass, condemning the ongoing custom of contemporary music at religious celebrations. "Updating sacred music is possible, but this cannot happen unless it follows the tradition of Gregorian chants or sacred polyphony," the pontiff said on Sunday on the sidelines of a concert in the Sistine Chapel. A skilled pianist with a predilection for Bach and Mozart, Benedict XVI spoke against a custom reportedly appreciated by his more informal predecessor John Paul II, who worked very hard throughout his papacy to make the Church more appealing to the younger generations.

In an interview published in Turin-daily La Stampa on Monday, the former Archbishop of Ravenna, veteran Cardinal Ersilio Tonini also condemned the practice saying that "Benedict XVI is right, mass is a meeting with God and to meet God sacred music is better than the turmoil of electric guitars, hand clapping and the husstle and bustle of disorderly sounds."

Tonini said that 40 years ago after the Second Vatican Council "making mass more popular and inviting could be understood." However, the cardinal added, "we exaggerated and now I believe it is legitimate to consider as over this season of breaks with tradition."


TOPICS: Catholic; Worship
KEYWORDS: catholic; christianmusic; religion
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To: saveliberty
"I think that there's value in looking at which songs are representative of parish prayer and which are less so."

Sounds GOOD to me. : )

101 posted on 06/26/2006 12:36:31 PM PDT by TAdams8591 (Ann Coulter = The Conservative Diva)
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To: xjcsa

I can't help but notice that we are not admonished to praise Him with repetitive two-chord musical pap.

Were I a literalist, I'd think God hates "praise music" too.


102 posted on 06/26/2006 12:36:44 PM PDT by Xenalyte (The wages of sin are death, but after taxes are taken out it's just sort of a tired feeling.)
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To: Alkhin
I'm with you on this, and I don't even like the new music! My church has a lot of it---the clapping Gloria, a call and return "our Father" and so forth---but our congregation is primarily immigrants for whom such style of worship is meaningful. Lots of Phillipine, African, Indian and Sri Lankans, and they are some of the most devout and devoted Catholics I know. Because our parish has a lot of people in transit, we rely on whatever musical talents happen to be there at the moment---if we moved to a very traditional liturgy, we'd have no music at all.

That said, I miss my old church and its Palestrina, Byrd etc. But you know, *that* was a concert for me! I am a huge early music fan:-)As much as I really am all for a lovely high mass, polyphonic chant and so forth, but this is leaning towards an elitist reactionary stance.

(for those anti-immigrant types, don't bother to comment, my current church is not in the US).

103 posted on 06/26/2006 12:37:17 PM PDT by austinTparty
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To: AnAmericanMother
The old-timey Lutherans (at least the LCMS types) have a lot more in common with the Catholics than you would think.

Especially the Norwegian Minnesotan Lutherans I grew up with. I think they actually were a bit embarrassed by the whole Martin Luther nailing his protest to the door thing, but they hate to make more of a fuss than has already been done. All we can do now is calm down, have some lunch and try to enjoy the rest of the day. :~)

104 posted on 06/26/2006 12:37:18 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: Aquinasfan
if he refuses to listen to the church

That's right. Church (little c). Do you treat all Protestants as pagans or tax collectors then? Boy I bet you make friends whereever you go...I was just ribbing the other poster somewhat. As I said you float your boat, I'll float mine.

105 posted on 06/26/2006 12:37:28 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: HairOfTheDog
Just don't make me eat lutefisk! ( please please please )

< g >

106 posted on 06/26/2006 12:38:42 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: billbears
Heh heh. No thanks. I'm Methodist and that's about as close as you'll get this ol' Southern boy to Catholicism. My family has a slew of Southern Baptist preachers in it and I heard about that switch for months. Heck, I'm half disowned..LOL

Sorry to hear of the family issues, but Jesus told us that would happen right? Take care.

107 posted on 06/26/2006 12:39:07 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Xenalyte

Someone once said that many of the older hymns are like mini-theologies....one could get through the gulag with only "A Mighty Fortress Is Our God."


108 posted on 06/26/2006 12:39:11 PM PDT by Kenny Bunkport
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To: AnAmericanMother

Glory and Praise music was much of what we played back in the 80s...VERY liturgical and musical...we had guitars and other instruments, but our purpose wasnt to be a rock group...just provide good music. I loved a lot of the Glory and Praise music.


109 posted on 06/26/2006 12:39:16 PM PDT by Alkhin (http://awanderingconfluence.com/blog ~ Tributaries)
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To: wideawake
Translation: stupid hippy guitar Mass is an utter waste of time and parish resources.

Hippy guitar music sucks.

They should have a speed-metal Mass!

110 posted on 06/26/2006 12:39:37 PM PDT by humblegunner (If you're gonna die, die with your boots on.)
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To: FJ290

Most Catholic churches here have a number of services beteen saturday night and sunday evening. As a catholic usually worshiping at a Methodist church with family, I miss the flexibility of times of service. We have one service on sunday, miss it and you're out of luck.

However, given that most churches here have at least 5 masses on the weekend, can't they attempt to offer a worship style that appeals to all? The children's mass is geared to families with youngsters, the homily is different and folks are more tolerant of restless kids. The "high" mass uses all sung responses and more classical music and is slightly longer. Saturday evening is more casual. Some churches offer a mass in a non-english language; Spanish around here. And one near-by does a Latin service.

As long as the standards are being adhered to, I don't see the harm in offering different worship and service styles to reflect the diversity of the backgrounds of the congregation. Mexican catholics have a different style from Indian catholics and Irish catholics and even catholic converts from the protestant denominations. Older folks have diffenent expectations from younger folks. Even exactly following the order and rituals I think there is room for some differences.


111 posted on 06/26/2006 12:39:48 PM PDT by YankeeGirl
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To: AnAmericanMother
Little secret...

We don't even eat lutefisk. We only serve it to guests that have stayed to long :~)

112 posted on 06/26/2006 12:39:55 PM PDT by HairOfTheDog
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To: TankerKC
We have a Life Teen Mass. The band plays electric guitars and sings upbeat music. The place is full...with teenagers and families. I *think* that's a good thing.

We attend the Life Teen Mass as well, we have many more people in attendance that fit the 35 to 85 year old demographic than the 0 to 34 year old demographic. This Mass also seems to be one of the better attended services.

If you don't mind me asking, what Parish are you a member of?

113 posted on 06/26/2006 12:40:15 PM PDT by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
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To: mhx

Is "liturgical dance" where two fools stand behind the preacher and wave ribbons like they're trying out for the rhythmic gymnastics event?

I think that's even lamer than "praise music."


114 posted on 06/26/2006 12:40:33 PM PDT by Xenalyte (The wages of sin are death, but after taxes are taken out it's just sort of a tired feeling.)
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To: FJ290
And, of course, some people are trying to get away from kneeling.

But Benedict XVI is on to them. On the Theology of Kneeling written before he was pope:

http://www.adoremus.org/1102TheologyKneel.html

Opening paragraph:

There are groups, of no small influence, who are trying to talk us out of kneeling. "It doesn't suit our culture", they say (which culture?) "It's not right for a grown man to do this -- he should face God on his feet". Or again: "It's not appropriate for redeemed man -- he has been set free by Christ and doesn't need to kneel any more".

Another good line:

It may well be that kneeling is alien to modern culture -- insofar as it is a culture, for this culture has turned away from the faith and no longer knows the one before whom kneeling is the right, indeed the intrinsically necessary gesture.

Click link above for more.

I would say we should be looking for some more comments or 'suggestions' on kneeling for those we are capable.

115 posted on 06/26/2006 12:40:49 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: humblegunner
They should have a speed-metal Mass!

Why would you switch from the world's most stupid genre of music to world's most boring, self-indulgent style of music?

Kind of a lateral move.

116 posted on 06/26/2006 12:41:37 PM PDT by wideawake ("The nation which forgets its defenders will itself be forgotten." - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: FJ290
I think there is a place for both kinds of Masses.

We should remember that Gregorian chant was once new and innovative. And no doubt in the early church, there were old people who disapproved of the Latin Mass, and longed for the good old traditional Greek or Aramaic version of their childhoods.

There are many young families that are put off by Gregorian chant and the Tridentine Mass, but there are many people, old and young, who prefer the old ways. Parishes and dioceses should adapt.

Unfortunately, there are still a few too many bishops who fear they won't get invited to the right liberal parties any more if they don't denigrate the Tridentine Mass in favor of the happy-clappy rock-guitar version. May the Holy Father begin a quiet purge of them.

-ccm

117 posted on 06/26/2006 12:42:31 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order)
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To: pgyanke

Amen!! The choir or music leader in soooo many Churches act like THEY are the most importnat thing!!


118 posted on 06/26/2006 12:43:06 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kaboom"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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To: FJ290
God bless the Pope!

Speaking of church music........on vacation one summer, I found myself in an ELCA (liberal Lutheran Synod). I'm Missouri Synod (conservative).

Peace and dove-type banners graced the altar area. Other features were goofy such as gender-neutral readings.

After the sermon, the scraggy guitar soloist played and sang the Lord's Prayer IN CALYPSO.

At that point, I quietly left.

Gimme that old-time religion, please. I get enough politics during the week.

Leni

119 posted on 06/26/2006 12:43:30 PM PDT by MinuteGal (Mi casa es su casa. Mi pais es su pais. Mi dinero es su dinero. Mi..............)
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To: Alkhin
Well, the hymns out of G&P that I have heard are not particularly musical - repetitive, predictable, three-chord stuff - and they tend to be liturgically suspect, mostly because of the focus on "I, me, mine" instead of the glory of God.

But I don't know that I have a representative sample (having never had that hymnal in my hands), and I am also a musical reactionary . . . at least as far as sacred music is concerned.

120 posted on 06/26/2006 12:44:20 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: humblegunner
Speed-metal? Heck, the Mass at my church rarely lasts longer than half an hour anyways, and that's with some music (although they don't sing the responsorial psalm here, which they did in my old parish. I kinda liked doing that).

I can't imagine speeding it up anymore!
121 posted on 06/26/2006 12:44:24 PM PDT by CT-Freeper (Said the perpetually dejected Mets fan.)
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To: Kenny Bunkport

In the word's of the great philosopher Hank Hill

Can't you see you're not making Christianity better, you're just making rock n' roll worse.

122 posted on 06/26/2006 12:44:45 PM PDT by PanzerKardinal
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To: Sergio
Holy Spirit in Montgomery AL. They have an awesome Life Team band.

My family is still in Alabama...I moved to Virginia for an assignment to the Pentagon.

123 posted on 06/26/2006 12:44:45 PM PDT by TankerKC (¿José puede usted ver?)
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To: TankerKC

Why do you like splitting up the family for Masses?? That's like having teens eat breakfast by themselves at 11:00 and dinner at 8:00...all without the parents....makes NO sense to me.


124 posted on 06/26/2006 12:45:03 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kaboom"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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To: Kermit the Frog Does theWatusi; narses

"Ladies and gentlemen, Marty Haugen and David Haas
have left the building..."

125 posted on 06/26/2006 12:45:04 PM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Kenny Bunkport

Now THAT is a hymn. "This Is my Father's World" . . . "In the Garden" . . . now I'm getting mad 'cause I can't remember my old Rainbow Girls hymns.


126 posted on 06/26/2006 12:45:07 PM PDT by Xenalyte (The wages of sin are death, but after taxes are taken out it's just sort of a tired feeling.)
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To: billbears
That's right. Church (little c).

So, say my brother thinks that I'm a heretic, which church should we go to in order to settle our dispute? The one with thousands of contradictory doctrines?

Do you treat all Protestants as pagans or tax collectors then?

When it comes to someone who has no regard for Church authority, it's a shake the dust off your sandals thing.

127 posted on 06/26/2006 12:46:12 PM PDT by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: tbird5
I hate the old south, baptist type, music.

I don't care to hear it in church, but I do like to listen to bluegrass gospel music now and again. Its lyrics of simple faith and the dangers of sin are worthy of all Christians to be heard.

-ccm

128 posted on 06/26/2006 12:46:12 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order)
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To: Xenalyte

Oh, man, "liturgical dance"! Thank you! Some years ago I had the pleasure of viewing a couple young, barefoot "earth mothers", dressed in long white gowns, holding ribbons, cavorting about.

I'll tell you, I hadn't chuckled quietly with so much pleasure in years. It was totally ridiculous. It seemed they were saying, "Look at us! We are praising God better than you are! Nyah, nyah!" It looked like flag corps tryouts for the high school band.


129 posted on 06/26/2006 12:47:28 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault ("..this administration is planning a 'Right Wing Assault' on values and ideals.." - John Kerry)
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To: FJ290
They aren't too mad at me. Traced back my family line and they came from French Hugenots, then Methodist. It's only been in the past 3 generations that they're Baptist. I see the denominations as a mess for the most part. If they believe and follow the basic principles of the New Testament, believe on Christ alone, and don't preach heresy (like same sex marriages, etc.) we're all good. And we'll all get there. IIRC, the Southern Baptists and Catholics had long going theological discussions about their general likenesses. A lot of the rest, not all though, is just denominational bantering about picky issues.

Have a good one

130 posted on 06/26/2006 12:47:35 PM PDT by billbears (Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it. --Santayana)
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To: FJ290
My church (not catholic) plays a bit of both.

I really don't have a lot of feeling about this one way or the other, although it's true: there seems to be a lot of me me me in some of the contemporary music. Also, some of the contemporary worship is so repetitive that it nearly puts me to sleep. The most egregious example of this is a song called 'Let it Rain.' Any pentecostals/AoG in here should know this one. That song drives me up the wall.

In my spare time, I listen to purely Christian music for entertainment, but it's generally of the hard rock variety. Not something I'd reccomend for church, but definitely good music for a good time that doesn't fill your mind with crap.
131 posted on 06/26/2006 12:48:08 PM PDT by JamesP81
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To: Military family member
IT is interesting that the Pope likes Bach and Mozart--two musicians who shattered the molds when its came to the music of their respecitve times. Both were considered extremely radical.

That's correct. If I recall right, there were riots in the streets after the premiere of one of Mozart's operas. The Altamont of its day.

-ccm

132 posted on 06/26/2006 12:49:34 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order)
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To: TAdams8591

:-) Woo hoo!


133 posted on 06/26/2006 12:49:42 PM PDT by saveliberty (Dessert Cart Democrats - they ate their advantage. Now they are in trouble LOL)
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To: Suzy Quzy
Why do you like splitting up the family for Masses??

I never said that. However, if the choice is between the teen coming alone or not showing up at all...I'd rather that they come alone. Besides, if they come alone when they are 16, 17, & 18, they are setting up a good habit. They aren't going to be with mom and dad forever.

Any way, my kids prefer the Life Teen Mass, so we all go then...as a family.

134 posted on 06/26/2006 12:50:12 PM PDT by TankerKC (¿José puede usted ver?)
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To: FJ290

This is good to hear!!

Let's get back to the sacred music!!


135 posted on 06/26/2006 12:50:52 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: AnAmericanMother

LOL

I second that


136 posted on 06/26/2006 12:51:14 PM PDT by saveliberty (Dessert Cart Democrats - they ate their advantage. Now they are in trouble LOL)
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To: AnAmericanMother

They must have come out with some new G&P stuff...dont remember the focus on "I/me" so much from the 80s. Quite a few of the G&P I remember were direct from Scripture. Oh well... *grin*


137 posted on 06/26/2006 12:52:14 PM PDT by Alkhin (http://awanderingconfluence.com/blog ~ Tributaries)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Just don't make me eat lutefisk! ( please please please )

Served in Norwegian restaurant with mashed peas, potatoes and bacon.

Now come on, doesn't that look appetizing?

I'm sorry, that was mean. Couldn't resist the opportunity to tease you, LOL!

138 posted on 06/26/2006 12:52:14 PM PDT by FJ290
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To: Right Wing Assault
The first time I saw liturgical dancers, all I could think of was Harry Shearer and Martin Short on SNL in 1984, with the mockumentary sketch about men's synchronized swimming.


139 posted on 06/26/2006 12:53:06 PM PDT by Xenalyte (The wages of sin are death, but after taxes are taken out it's just sort of a tired feeling.)
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To: Kenny Bunkport
Much of the contemporary music is great, but a lot of it is sentimental slop. I became a Christian in college, and attended a Baptist church where the worship music was from the hymnal, and I was exposed to the compositions of Isaac Watts, Charles Wesley, and Francis Ridley Havergal. A lot of the music in the hymnal was sentimental slop too, but much of the contemporary music amounts to "Jesus is my boyfriend, I love him so...", and this makes me cringe. A worship service shouldn't make people cringe.

I've noted similar things. There are some contemporary songs that speak to me. Days of Elijah is a good example. But some of that old music speaks to. When I Survey the Wondrous Cross is a good example.

Then there's contemporary music that makes me want to hide under the pew. We could do without a lot of that stuff. Alas, my old campus ministry when I was in college is hooked on some of the worst of that breed.
140 posted on 06/26/2006 12:53:46 PM PDT by JamesP81
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To: Xenalyte

When our church jettisoned its hymnals, we bought a copy, so we could at least keep the older hymns alive in our own family.


141 posted on 06/26/2006 12:54:22 PM PDT by Kenny Bunkport
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To: Kenny Bunkport

I have a few old hymnals, Methodist, Baptist, Episcopal - I like to find a hymn in all of them and play the different versions.


142 posted on 06/26/2006 12:55:05 PM PDT by Xenalyte (The wages of sin are death, but after taxes are taken out it's just sort of a tired feeling.)
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To: FJ290

Yum. < ack >


143 posted on 06/26/2006 12:55:34 PM PDT by AnAmericanMother ((Ministrix of Ye Chase, TTGC Ladies' Auxiliary (recess appointment)))
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To: AnAmericanMother
Have you seen this site?

The Cyber Hymnal

144 posted on 06/26/2006 12:55:51 PM PDT by Alkhin (http://awanderingconfluence.com/blog ~ Tributaries)
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To: TankerKC

Small world, spent a few months at Maxwell AFB for SOS back in '88. We go to St. Patrick's in California. Close to March AFB.


145 posted on 06/26/2006 12:56:10 PM PDT by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
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To: Xenalyte
I really don't like the banal, repeptitive lyrics flashed on the wall by an overhead projector. Maybe it's OK for Sunday School.

-ccm

146 posted on 06/26/2006 12:57:14 PM PDT by ccmay (Too much Law; not enough Order)
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To: ccmay
The Altamont of its day.

Good analogy...But were the Hell's Angels providing security for Mozart that day too?

147 posted on 06/26/2006 12:58:52 PM PDT by Kenny Bunkport
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To: A CA Guy
I wish he would feel the same way about a pop-Cardinal in Los Angeles.

I'll bet the reaction at the chancery office in Los Angeles to the pope's statement was a collective yawn.

Look to see an even greater profusion of pop music and dancing at next year's Religious Ed conference.
148 posted on 06/26/2006 12:59:32 PM PDT by Deo volente
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To: YankeeGirl

Catholic, as in religion, is capitalized...Catholic.


149 posted on 06/26/2006 12:59:50 PM PDT by Suzy Quzy ("When Cabals Go Kaboom"....upcoming book on Mary McCarthy's Coup-Plotters.)
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To: ccmay

That too! Does your church's screen at least show music? My sister's didn't. For all I knew, we could be singing to the tune of "99 Red Balloons."


150 posted on 06/26/2006 1:00:18 PM PDT by Xenalyte (The wages of sin are death, but after taxes are taken out it's just sort of a tired feeling.)
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