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Team believes it found Noah's Ark (In Iran)
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | 6/30/06 | WorldNetDaily

Posted on 06/30/2006 8:26:43 AM PDT by DannyTN

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To: RadioAstronomer

How about grasping the implications of assuming all natural processes have always taken place at the same rate? Can you dumb that down to my level, too? What is the speed of thought?


161 posted on 06/30/2006 7:04:24 PM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: DannyTN

Somebody is finding that sucker about every three weeks now..


162 posted on 06/30/2006 7:06:32 PM PDT by humblegunner (If you're gonna die, die with your boots on.)
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To: balrog666
Ramen!

Eeew, I hate ramen.

163 posted on 06/30/2006 7:13:58 PM PDT by humblegunner (If you're gonna die, die with your boots on.)
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To: humblegunner

Thanks, everyone, this has been the most enjoyable read in a long time!


164 posted on 06/30/2006 7:18:59 PM PDT by ShihanRob
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To: Dimensio

The only people I've come across who've written about redshift variability are in the YEC camp.

http://www.ldolphin.org/setterfield/redshift.html

I admit I haven't looked for info in other sources. Jargon laden explanations = a heavy slog, a slog I'll take if the source is recommened. Any theories, theorists you favor?


165 posted on 06/30/2006 7:31:40 PM PDT by GoLightly
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To: Fester Chugabrew; DannyTN; editor-surveyor
How about grasping the implications of assuming all natural processes have always taken place at the same rate?

Yep they explain/inist the theories with absolute certainty and yet reality keeps delivering un-projected & unexpected responses such as what goes on with nuclear decay in nuke warheads. This should throw radiometric dating into doubt, but nnoooo problem for the evolutionists who just adds yet another twist, another contortion into his interpretations to keep 'his results' intact.

LIVERMORE, Calif. - The scientists who crack open the nation's nuclear weapons for a living are never quite sure what they will find inside.

Many of the warheads were designed and built 40 years ago, and their plutonium and other components are slowly breaking down in ways that researchers do not fully understand.


Wolf
166 posted on 06/30/2006 7:40:54 PM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: Fester Chugabrew; RadioAstronomer; All
Discuss the issues all you want, but do NOT make it personal!
167 posted on 06/30/2006 8:47:39 PM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Old_Mil; bornacatholic; RightWhale
Old Mil, the flood story is one of my favorites and I read Genesis very often, why is Iran a more likly place than Turkey?

I agree about Sinai in Saudi, in fact many people placed it on the Arabian side of the Sinai peninsula for many years. There is even a mountain with a severally scorched top there.

BAC, yep got to go with Jesus. There are a number of pillars of salt called "Lot's wife" in the Dead sea area right now, but as I thumb through some of my old Biblical Archeology magazines, it seems that there was one place in particular that most people agree was the one originally called that. It was down aways from the monastary of St. Lot (which makes sense) and the cave there. What is more interesting is that there have been some evacuations of cities in the Dead Sea that show total destruction around a common date. On image that sticks in my mind was of a skeleton of a man, that had been crushed by a falling watchtower. What ever happened was so quick and so final, the body was never removed for thousands of years, even though there was a large cemetery contemporary of the city near by.
168 posted on 06/30/2006 8:53:32 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: AndrewC; H. Paul Pressler IV
Strictly speaking, "Water" or H20 is made and destroyed millions of times a day in your body. The water molecule is broken up and formed during the many chemical reactions in your body at any given time.

Kind of neat actually (in a chemical engineering mass balance kind of way).
169 posted on 06/30/2006 8:58:43 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: Dimensio
What of animals that do not hibernate?

Cryogenic storage, using a donkey-powered Bronze Age air liquifier with olive oil as a cryo-protectant. Or at least, that is how I would have done it.

170 posted on 06/30/2006 9:05:22 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: AndrewC

The total water supply of the world is 326 million cubic miles (a cubic mile is an imaginary cube (a square box) measuring one mile on each side). A cubic mile of water equals more than one trillion gallons.

About 3,100 cubic miles of water, mostly in the form of water vapor, is in the atmosphere at any one time. If it all fell as precipitation at once, the Earth would be covered with only about 1 inch of water.

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/earthhowmuch.html


171 posted on 06/30/2006 9:16:01 PM PDT by H. Paul Pressler IV
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To: Fester Chugabrew
How about grasping the implications of assuming all natural processes have always taken place at the same rate?

I think you are missing the point that even if you allow for changes in the fundamental constants and process rates, for which one could argue there is some evidence, it still does not leave you with an obvious model that remotely suggests the world is less than 10,000 years old. That idea and its implication, when considered, do not plausibly have the ability to generate anything remotely like the outcome you are looking for.

Slow changes in constants are plausible but difficult to measure, and science is very open to the idea (it comes up often enough in the science journals). It is possible to construct relatively consistent models that show how that could occur and leave us with what we see today. But the only way you can get 10,000 years out of the existing system with the existing evidence would be very heavy-handed and irregular/inconsistent wholesale reshaping of the universe specifically for the purpose of creating that illusion. Science is quite okay with idea of a universe with constants that have changed, as it is not inconsistent with what we see within certain parameters. Science would reject the less than 10,000 year notion because there is no evidence that you could get there from here even if the universal constants changed significantly. All such changes have predictable consequences, at least in science.

If you believe God bludgeoned the universe into its current shape in less than 10,000 years, that is fine. But there is zero evidence that supports that as a remotely plausible scientific hypothesis.

172 posted on 06/30/2006 9:23:11 PM PDT by tortoise
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To: H. Paul Pressler IV

Nice answer to a question I didn't ask. I asked about the scientific law stipulating that the amount of water on the earth was unchanging.


173 posted on 06/30/2006 9:26:37 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: tortoise
Cryogenic storage, using a donkey-powered Bronze Age air liquifier with olive oil as a cryo-protectant. Or at least, that is how I would have done it

Well tortoise that sounds about as scientific & successful as any of the other cryogenic storage applications out on the market for animal life that does or does not hibernate.

Tortoise if you are actually a scientist, you are not making an effective case for your ideology whatever it is.

But thanks for playing /sarc>

Wolf
174 posted on 06/30/2006 9:30:32 PM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: RunningWolf
Well tortoise that sounds about as scientific & successful as any of the other cryogenic storage applications out on the market for animal life that does or does not hibernate.

On a more serious note, cryogenic preservation has come a long way in the last decade or two. I have a couple friends who are top researchers in that field. Organ and tissue cryo-preservation is really not much of a problem. The tricky parts for doing whole living organisms are deceptively simple e.g. getting the entire organism to warm up and cool down at approximately the same rate. A living critter that is half thawed and half frozen is not a happy critter. Still, they complexity of the critters and systems they can semi-reliably do this to increase every year.

But the parent post made a good point: if one presumes that the story is intended to be taken literally, how does one explain away the obvious problems that emerge from said literal interpretation. Any fool can see that nothing that we know of can support a literal interpretation, and the only explanations proffered are far beyond what any rational or intelligent person should be expected to swallow. Do I believe a literal interpretation or my lying eyes?

That particular story needs all the scientific help it can get, no matter how implausible the science. Next you'll tell me that the Hindus really have it all figured out.

175 posted on 07/01/2006 12:06:30 AM PDT by tortoise
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To: tortoise
Bookmark for later

Actually you have many avenues into intriguing dialog that can be explored there. One seems to lead into the arena of physics, another about your friends cryogenic work.

I don't know what I will tell you, and I don't recall the parent post right now. But if it is true dialog that we are about, then at least Wolf needs to start with a clean slate.

Wolf
176 posted on 07/01/2006 1:12:42 AM PDT by RunningWolf (2-1 Cav 1975)
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To: redgolum

Amen, brother


177 posted on 07/01/2006 3:50:29 AM PDT by bornacatholic
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To: tortoise
Whether I believe the world to be 10 billion years old or 10 thousand years old, I can only accept these things by faith (through indirect observation and the testimony of others) and not by sight.

There are two fundamental aspects of age. One is the age of matter. The other is the age of the form in which we find it. Thus your age may be expressed both in terms of the substances of which you are made, and the time transpired since the moment you were conceived. Which expression is correct?

Einstein's theories of relativity are a handy way to explain the physical universe. So are Newton's laws. Neither of these represent a full understanding of the age of the universe. Perhaps the speed of light is relatively slow compared to other invisible entities science has yet to discover.

So, adopting your assumptions along with their implications, it is not a far stretch to believe as you do. But don't expect the rest of the world to sit idly by while your faith is establsihed as the law of the land in public schools as if it is worthy of exclusive preaching.

BTW, catastrophism, a generally accepted process whereby the geological record was formed, tends to be a "heavy-handed" process. How much water can be found inside the earth at depths of 10-20 kilometers?

178 posted on 07/01/2006 4:26:43 AM PDT by Fester Chugabrew
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To: VadeRetro

"Why bother? The usual sillies from the people whose thought balloons cannot be popped by any dose of reality whatsoever"


Their's is the "triumph of an ego"...if something is bigger than they are, why it just could'nt be real...for if it was real , then their superior, rational intellect could comprehend it.......


179 posted on 07/01/2006 4:44:09 AM PDT by mo
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To: thomaswest

I didn't know humility was and odd view?

mans knowedge is inferior. just as car knowledge is inferior to man's

just have to spend a little time studing His creation to know this. Man seems to get all pride/boast-ful when we are able to copy his createativity.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8498621/


180 posted on 07/01/2006 5:54:35 AM PDT by flevit
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