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To: kosta50; Gamecock; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; NYer; Dr. Eckleburg

But since the big T traditions differ about, lets say Purgatory and the Authority of the RC pope; two of the initial causes of the Protestant break from the RC's. That shows within the 'Unified RC/OC church' there are infallible doctrines of the RC church that either are not infallible, showing their authority is wrong, or the big T traditions of the OC are wrong. Hence the Schism.

It cannot be unified if one side is big R Right and does not agree with the other on something it rests its authority over ALL the small C catholic church.

This talk of Tradition just seems, and it is not meant as an insult, but it seems to this interested observer, that the OC knows if the RC Traditions are questioned, that soon theirs will be also, since they come from the same roots and as 'inspired' traditions must logically be the same lest they are shown to not be. The reason they must reconcile, and cannot reconcile is because of these Traditions.

And the Reformed say that since they ain't the same they must not be, just as a Prophet must be right 100% of the time or he isn't inspired by God.

The only thing we have that we all agree is inspired are the 8000 translations of the apostles written word in the Koine, Hebrew and Aramaic.

(sorry if this is confused. Early morning without the bean-juice.)


43 posted on 11/12/2006 6:33:10 AM PST by Ottofire (Fire Tempers Steel)
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To: Ottofire

"This talk of Tradition just seems, and it is not meant as an insult, but it seems to this interested observer, that the OC knows if the RC Traditions are questioned, that soon theirs will be also, since they come from the same roots and as 'inspired' traditions must logically be the same lest they are shown to not be. The reason they must reconcile, and cannot reconcile is because of these Traditions."

I think you misunderstand what we Latins and Orthodox are talking about when we speak of Holy Tradition. You referred to Papal Infallibility and purgatory as Traditions. They are not. As was pointed out, there is only one Holy Tradition; there are many traditions. Both of your citations are to dogmas of the Latin Church. These dogmas are, the Latins would say, in accord with Holy Tradition. We Orthodox say otherwise. How Holy Tradition plays itself out in dogma can be and sometimes is quite different between the Latin Church and Orthodoxy. Claims to base a dogma or a belief on Holy Tradition is no assurance that the "dogma" or belief or practice is not in fact heretical. There are many, many examples of this in the early One Church, especially in the East. As a general proposition, it was Rome which was the bastion and beacon of Orthodoxy for the first 800 years of The Church. Since then, on account of the influence of +Augustine and the gradual and increasing secular role the Pope played along with the influence of temporal rulers like Charlemange, Orthodoxy believes that Rome fell into error. of course, Rome believes otherwise. At any rate, individual hierarchs, groups of hierarchs, entire particular churches within The Church can and have misinterpret(ed) Holy Tradition and scripture or the decisions of Ecumenical Councils and fall into heresy. Only The Church can infallibly glean the Truth from scriptures and then through the use of Holy Tradition.


47 posted on 11/12/2006 10:43:12 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Ottofire; Gamecock; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; NYer; Dr. Eckleburg
But since the big T traditions differ about, lets say Purgatory and the Authority of the RC pope...

Neither the Purgatory nor the authority of the Pope are something the Church believed "everywhere and always." Purgatory was unknown to most of the Undivided Church of the 1st millennium. Papal authority was also perceived differently, and still is.

Therefore Purgatory and Papal jurisdictional authority are not part of the Holy Tradition. Holy Tradition must be in harmony with the Scriptures because the Christian Bible you read is the product of that Tradition, in other words, Faith delivered to the Apostles. To the best of my knowledge, papal jurisdictional authority is not defined in the Bible, and neither is the Purgatory.

You also can't speak of Protestants in terms of the Holy Tradition, because, as far as the uninterrupted Church of God is concerned, the Protestants, even though they are faithful and loving Christians, are unfortunately not part of the Church (and this is not meant as an insult, so please do not take it that way).

59 posted on 11/12/2006 9:06:09 PM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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