Posted on 05/21/2007 1:31:42 AM PDT by bruinbirdman
The writer’s position seems to come from the Preterist school. R.C. Sproul follows this line of reasoning.
I do not understand why simply reading the New Testament would lead one to the conclusion that John’s Revelation was written so early. The early Church fathers put this book at the end of the collection and it has a distinct feel of “finality” as one of the last books written, not one of the first.
However, I think I will stick with the more common position that John wrote Revelation toward the end of his life after the Asian churches had had a chance to fall into complacency. The “Talk Through the Bible” overview by Bruce Wilkerson of Dallas Theological Seminary, suggests that Domitian would be a better candidate than Nero as the Anti-Christ alluded to by John.
Furthermore, there are several cases of “near” fulfillment and “far” fulfillment for the same prophetic utterance.
I do like the author’s suggestion that the letters should be read as if they were hand delivered to YOUR mailbox. The epistles are full of teaching which we would do well to personalize.
Oh, bother. Now what are we supposed to do with all the Rapture-themed bumperstickers?
Too many are so wrapped up in “end times” speculation that they forget that the world doesn’t have to come to an end for their world, and the world of their lost neighbors and relatives, to come to an end (Ps 90:12). Laden down with the complacent view that “Jesus is surely coming soon to catch me away from all of this”, they turn Mat 16:18 around and cower in their little churches on the hill, waiting for Jesus to arrive with the heavenly calvary and save them from being overrun by Satan’s beseigning forces. I sometimes wonder if the even know Him (Matt 7:21-27).
I suppose this scripture is a not truthful...
The Coming of the Lord
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.
Nero may have been a form of antichrist....but I don’t believe he was THE antichrist. There are too many things in the Revelation that have not come to pass. There is no New Jerusalem here...yet. 2/3 of the worlds population was not annihilated during Nero’s reign...he did some damage to the Christian population...but even his great empire did not encompass the whole earth.. Jesus has not set up HIS kingdom here..yet either.
The great Battle in which Christ leads his army against the antichrist hasn’t happened either...unless we missed something during Nero’s time. If it happened during Nero’s time.....where is Jesus reigning the whole earth for a millenium? A lot of earthly governments haven’t gotten that memo yet...I suppose. Why is evil still here..when the revelation says the evil one, the Beast will be thrown into a lake of fire with all his cohorts...?
If God is who He says He is...then He is incapable of lying...to deny the “rapture” and to claim Nero the antichrist....is saying the scriptures are not true.
No. It is to say that your interpretation of them (which is rooted in dispensationalism, a complex interpretive scheme invented in the 1850's that you have, perhaps unconsciously, superimposed upon Scripture) is not true.
Mr. Adams, as a partial preterist, doesn't disagree about the veracity of 1The. 4:13-16 - he just believes that it refers to the resurrection of the dead.
Saving for later.
Well, IMO if one proclaims Jesus as their "personal" savior there ought be no other way to read scripture.
‘If God is who He says He is...then He is incapable of lying...to deny the “rapture” and to claim Nero the antichrist....is saying the scriptures are not true.’
On the other hand, it might be just saying that a reading of the 2Thess passage and the Apocalypse that did not exist before the early 19th century Plymouth Brethren intererpretations popularized by John Darby caught on in Britain and the USA is not true.
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/cathouse/darby.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plymouth_Brethren
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
he just believes that it refers to the resurrection of the dead....
Which it does..but it also speaks of those who are still alive. Leaving that part out puts a whole different spin on it, don’t you agree? I am not a Bible scholar...just someone who has read the Bible and taken it at face value. I believe it is truthful , as God is a truthful being. I know nothing about the 1850’s scheme gobbledegook...
I believe that when I ask the Holy Spirit, my teacher, to help me understand what I am reading, that He doesn’t lead me down a path of deception...for the Word says He will lead me into all truth.
I have a problem with relying my biblical understanding on the understanding of other men...when the word tells me I have no need of other teachers. The Holy Spirit’s job is to teach me...and I believe He does.
It may be simplistic...but the Bible really is simplicity...God didn’t make it so it would be difficult to understand. I rely on the Holy Spirit to lead me and to help me discern the truth.
If the Bible says that there will be people still alive who will be caught up in the air with Christ...then I believe live people will be caught up in the air with Him. If it says that Jesus will reign in the New Jerusalem.....then He will reign there.
The only thing superimposed on me is what the Lord himself has revealed to me through his Word.
“The anti-Christ was Nero, not some world figure yet to emerge in the 21st Century.”
Absolutely wrong.
“The “rapture” never happened and it never will.”
This is a denial of the Scripture.
The Book of Revelation was clearly written during one of the periods of Roman persecution, most likely during Nero's reign, which in fact would be in the early AD 60s. The code '666' actually refers to Nero, coming out of the Hebrew apocalyptic and mystic tradition, and it doesn't take much imagination to realize that the seven-headed beast, as well, as the scarlet-clad harlot of Babylon, is Rome (sitting on its seven hills). The book of Revelation is all about Rome's persecution of Christians as well as its domination of Judea, and St. John's vision of its downfall and the rise of a new city of Jerusalem is not at all about the end of time, if one studies the text very carefully and objectively.
It may be because it is so early in the morning...but this doesn’t make sense to me...could you rephrase it?
On the other hand, it might be just saying that a reading of the 2Thess passage and the Apocalypse that did not exist before the early 19th century Plymouth Brethren intererpretations popularized by John Darby caught on in Britain and the USA is not true.
Your ideas don’t square with the apocalyptic passages in the Thessalonian books.
Sounds like your professors may have skewed your studies.
bump for later
About the end-times: there is nothing you can do about it.
About today: you can live in Christ.
The lillies of the field do not spin.
Here is something I reflect on often about many of the non-prophetic passages that may apply to the prophetic.
Scripture often speaks to me on many several levels. As this author points out, John may seem at first to speak to a group of people. However, it also speaks directly to me.
Many OT passages and prophecy were fully understood and sometimes thought to be fully complete before Christ. After Christ we came to understand that many parts of the law, the traditions and the stories all pointed to Christ and that many of the prophecies that seemed to be fulfilled in prior times and places were also more fully filled by Christ.
For us to try and put John’s Revelation into a box that makes a claim that it only refers to Nero and Rome or that it only refers to the final days is placing more restrictions on prophecy and its purpose than we have placed on the prophets of the OT.
In short, I don’t think the question of timing of the events of Revelations is an either/or proposition as to time and place any more than I believe it is speaks merely about world events.
The same process that Revelation’s has in our outer world is the same process that takes place in our inner world. We all have inner Babylon’s that need a Christ on a white horse. We all need new Jerusalem’s paved in gold to replace the old cities we have created in our hearts. Just as the Flood is also a baptism of our inner selves and Exodus is a process of leaving our Pharaohs and learning to be dependent on God for manna, the Revelations is our final surrender for every knee or our inner selves to yield to Christ.
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