Posted on 03/14/2008 10:02:39 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg
Just one of four examples of Alzheimer.
#1 Are you mocking?
Proverbs 3: 34 He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble
#2 Concealing some hatred through this slander?
Proverbs 10: 18 He who conceals his hatred has lying lips, and whoever spreads slander is a fool
#3 Or just Lying?
Proverbs 12: 22 The LORD detests lying lips, but he delights in men who are truthful.
Proverbs 19:
9 A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will perish
How are the big 10 coming today for you?
Proverbs 20
9 Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin"?
I'd guess #2 since the slur has the same smell. SO I bid you goodbye.
Proverbs 14
7 Stay away from a foolish man, for you will not find knowledge on his lips.
If one can be saved without being baptized, then one can be saved without remission of their sins. Also, perfect obedience is not required in order to remain in Christ, since no one but Christ has ever lived perfectly. However, we must continue to walk in the light in order for Christ’s blood to continue to cover our sins (1 John 1:7).
You say:
“Show me where you are justified by the Law. See #4 below”.
For the millionth time, Alzheimer (and yes I’m mocking you – maybe you’ll wake up),
Read James2:12 one hundred times until you can say it in you sleep.
Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Judged and if found guilty of not obeying the law of the Big 10, you pay the price.
And he will know when you stand before him, if you are on the level are just ignoring the Big 10.
Don’t know what you mean by #4.
You Quote Romans 4:
Romans 4 Abraham Justified by Faith
Thanks, you enforce my point even more and weaken yours. Why don’t you read the rest of it to see what works he’s talking about. Read Romans 4:11,12,13,14 even though you don’t like to read it. It’s referring to ordinance or law (instruction in Hebrew) of circumcision. His not at all talking about the Law of the 10 commandments. The promises about the land covenant were given before Sinai when the curses were given for Moses to write them in the Book of the Law of Moses. In vs 14 he says that if inheritance of the land was conditional on circumcision and the curses given at Sinai, then there would be no need to have faith and thus really no need for Yeshua having died. In effect, if being an heir was based strictly on the curses of the law, then even the promise given to Abraham would be of no significance. Your favorite verse that you hate to read Galatians 3:13 tells us which law he is referring to that was given at Sinai. That my friend is the law that we are no longer under. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. It is the TRUTH. Ripley’s believe it or not. While you’re at it read the rest of Galatians 4 since it is the same as Romans 4 basically. Nothing about the Big 10. Same about Romans 9,11; Eph 2. Yeshua redeemed us from the curse of the law. Gal 3:13, Deut 15. That is what we must believe. That is where faith comes in. Nothing about the 10 commandments. Ten commandments don’t speak about heirs, inheritance, circumcision, the promise, Abraham, faith, etc. Get a grip and quit trying to make the Bible say something that isn’t there. Remember, there is a stiff penalty for adding or taking away from the Scriptures.
Blessings as you search for TRUTH.
You say:
“Proverbs 3: 34 He mocks proud mockers but gives grace to the humble”
What about the one’s that apply to you. Like
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
There are a bunch others that apply to you. However, I don’t think there are any that talk about Alzheimers.
You say:
#3 Or just Lying?
This one fits you perfectly. I think you need to look at yourself in the mirror and read this verse at the same time.
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
By the way, do you keep the 7th day Sabbath holy and teach all to do the same? I’ll answer for you “No, we’re not under the law.” What a joke, liar. Not my words, but that’s Hashem’s cut down.
You say:
Proverbs 14
7 Stay away from a foolish man, for you will not find knowledge on his lips.
You couldn’t have picked a better one that’s fits your person.
Blessings as you desperately run with your tail between your legs ignoring the Truth
Click on my profile page for more guidelines pertaining to the Religion Forum.
On Jesus: You've warned me a couple of times (despite my protestations to the contrary)about the judgement effects of the 10 Commandments. Sinners will be judged by the Law.
You called Jesus a 'mediator' which He is but He is alot more than that. I only bring this up because I had been posting to another 'non-pagan' festival dude who had some crazy ideas regarding Jesus. If you aren't afflicted that way, they are still good passages.
John 17:
Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him
Romans 9:
5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen
John 5:
21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
This should interest you since you use Yashua for Jesus...perhaps you might want to use something else as well
John 8:
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
Two separate verses presented together but with different speakers, I know you know what Alpha and Omega means.
Rev 1: 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Jesus speaking again:
Rev 22:
13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Redemption, Justification, Salvation it is really ALL Jesus.
Faith vs. works
I'm sure Jesus and James are in agreement
Luke 7:
47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little." 48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." 49The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" 50Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
if you’re foolish enough to believe that Hashem doesn’t give everyone freedom of choice
Everybody might be a stretch, also another look at works for salvation
Rom 9:
11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
And finally while we are on Paul, we know what his 'free' will had been until now
Acts 9:
3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do
Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized,
On Jesus: You've warned me a couple of times (despite my protestations to the contrary)about the judgement effects of the 10 Commandments. Sinners will be judged by the Law.
You called Jesus a 'mediator' which He is but He is alot more than that. I only bring this up because I had been posting to another 'non-pagan' festival dude who had some crazy ideas regarding Jesus. If you aren't afflicted that way, they are still good passages.
John 17:
Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him
Romans 9:
5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen
John 5:
21For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it. 22Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
This should interest you since you use Yashua for Jesus...perhaps you might want to use something else as well
John 8:
58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!"
Two separate verses presented together but with different speakers, I know you know what Alpha and Omega means.
Rev 1: 8"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
17When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Jesus speaking again:
Rev 22:
13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
Redemption, Justification, Salvation it is really ALL Jesus.
Faith vs. works
I'm sure Jesus and James are in agreement
Luke 7:
47Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven—for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little." 48Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." 49The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" 50Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
if you’re foolish enough to believe that Hashem doesn’t give everyone freedom of choice
Everybody might be a stretch, also another look at works for salvation
Rom 9:
11Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God's purpose in election might stand: 12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, "The older will serve the younger." 13Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."[f] 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
And finally while we are on Paul, we know what his 'free' will had been until now
Acts 9:
3As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?"
5"Who are you, Lord?" Saul asked.
"I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting," he replied. 6"Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do
Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized,
My apologies for not seeing this earlier. I hear you.
By definition forgiveness of sins saves a person, for where the sins are forgiven, there is no accusation, and if there is no accusation there is no condemnation.
Water baptism on the other hand, is a ceremony that symbolizes the death to sin and rebirth, and it is a public testimony. As such it fulfills Christ command to acknowledge him before others and his command to baptise as part of the great commission.
The water baptism ceremony was commanded, but in most verses that deal with eternal life or salvation only belief in Jesus is mentioned. No additional conditions other than belief is mentioned. Again this belief is not mere mental ascent to Jesus' identity but a trusting faith.
There are a couple of verses that mention baptism in connection with salvation, but in light of the numerous other passages, baptism does not appear to actually be a requirement of salvation, but rather a command to be performed immediately after salvation.
And there are two baptisms, there is the water baptism, and the spiritual baptism. The spiritual baptism occurs the instant you accept Jesus. Everyone who has accepted Jesus as Savior has been baptised in the Spirit.
Acts 11:16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: 'John baptized with [ Or in] water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'
> 1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge [ Or response] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
In Acts 10:44-48, the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles when they believe before water baptism had occured.
1 John 1:7 says "But if we walk in the light,...." In the very next chapter, 1 John 2:19 talks about some people who left the faith. John says they were never one of us to begin with, and the fact that they left, proves that they were never Christian to begin with, because if they were Christian they wouldn't have fallen away. You're either entered the light or you haven't, you've either known Christ or you've never known him. Christ is in you or He's not, there is no inbetween or in and out. And again this echoes what Jesus says He will say to the unrighteous, "I never knew you."
John also writes this 1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.
We as Christians should KNOW that we have eternal life. It's not something that we should be going around doubting or worrying that God is going to reject us after having adopted us, because to do so, is to put our faith in our own works instead of in Jesus.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
Sounds good.
Proverbs 12: 16 A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.
It didn't fit my purpose for my post for you but I copied it nonetheless. The Alzheimer comment really didn't piss me off much. I've said worse. The post to you did come right before I went to one of my 'pre-pagan' celebrations services. It put me in an improper mood for the service and reflects poorly on me to have done it.
You and I differ on Faith/works righteousness, but that post met neither bar. Please accept my apology.
Ok. I may have been abrupt also. We all make mistakes. Now, that we’ve had a little wake up call and wide awake, let’s continue. Please, I ask , please answer my questions. I think I’ve responded to all your posts. You need to respond to 152 and 163.
Oh, I don’t say Nicene Creed.
Blessings in your search for TRUTH
According to Paul in Ephesians 4:5, there is only one baptism that is connected with being in the body of Christ. Of the 2 baptisms we read about in the New Testament, spirit baptism and water baptism, only one was commanded. It is water baptism. It is also the only baptism that can be administered by man. This is the baptism that Paul is speaking about in Ephesians 4:5.
Also, with regards to 1 Peter 3:21, Peter is not saying that water baptism symbolizes spirit baptism. If read in context, we see that the waters of the flood, in which Noah and his family were saved, symbolize the waters of baptism which “now save us”. The phrase “this water” in verse 21 is referring to the water of the flood.
Again, I know we will be judged by the 10 Commandments. the Law. For the sake of argument, I'll concede your point regarding the ordinance section of Romans/Gal being about the land covenant.
With these concessions, how then does one receive salvation via the Law? James is specific. As no one save Christ has kept the 10 Commandment/Law, there must be a repentance and forgiveness factor somewhere. In whom is it to be found? If it is in Jesus (which is what I believe) then the Redeemer of the Law is the Author of it. John 8:58. If one accepts that passage, the logical extension is obvious.
Further, IAW, John 5:21-22 Jesus will be our judge. What does He say about salvation? That is what is important to me. Since I have violated the Law, confessed and received forgiveness, but will violate it again for sure, the only hope in the Law is that I hope I won't die prior to the confession of that next particular sin. That isn't the way God intended for us to live.
I contend we live by Grace, freely given, by Grace Christ has authored our Faith (Heb 12:2), through the work of the Holy Spirit, we can do good works (fruits of the Spirit) which reflect the hope within us. All of this is freely given by God to those who believe. It doesn’t give us sway to violate the Law at will, if anything we feel compelled to follow the Lord’s instruction because of the saving work of the Holy Spirit. It is by their fruits that ye shall know them, but not the fruits of my will, God’s will. The free will argument notwithstanding, to me it is obvious that God is responsible for all of it.
I will be out the rest of the day.
I must say that you have summed it up very well.
In regards to :
That isn’t the way God intended for us to live.
He knows our trials and tribulations and the sincerity of our daily prayers in asking for forgiveness of our sins. I remember when the apostles asked Yeshua about how they should pray. And he recited the “Lord’s Prayer”.
In reference to your post 160; I have gone over Romans again. There is sufficient evidence, I find, to say that yes Abraham was considered righteous and justified for only his faith and not any past or present sins. So it is in the New Testament. To become part of the plan of salvation , which means to become an adopted heir and have a right to the Kingdom of the Abrahamic land covenant, one only need have to accept the same concept of “righteousness by faith”, regardless if one is in a state of sin at the time. His sins will be oblilerated. Yeshua died not only for the transgressions of our fathers (2Kings 16-23), who were under the curse of the law and as a result of sin were dispersed to all nations of the world, but for the same sins which were imputed to their descendants. Up to the time of Yeshua, there was no way to return to lost promises of the land covenant. They had lost the inheritance. Yeshua provided the means of salvation or method to return to the lost inheritance. During the life of Yeshua and after his death, any one who accepted and currently accepts Yeshua as Redeemer from the curses of the law, and the sins of the fathers imputed to the then and future descendants of the fathers, as well as the Gentiles, falls under the “righteousness by faith” concept and are justified the same as Abraham was justified. At that instant, a person’s past sins are forgotten and he becomes an adopted heir, whether physically circumcised (Israelite) or not (Gentile), in the future Kingdom according to the promise of the New Covenant (Jer 31:29-34; Heb 8:6-13). Another way of saying it is, his faith (belief that Yeshua’s death has erased all his past sins and he is now justified to enter in the Kingdom of the land covenant) gives him access to grace (Rom 5:2). Now that he is under grace, he is no longer under the law and it curse (Deut 28:15 on down) from which we were redeemed (Gal 3:13) by Yeshua. Also, it is not a license to return to sin (Romans 6:1,2). Yeshua demonstrates this concept very clearly when he said, go and sin no more in John 5:14; 8:11. However, as Paul speaks of the carnal, sinful nature of man, if one should fall from grace due to sin, he currently has a Mediator with the Father who stands up for him (Heb 9:23,24) if he truly repents (Matt 9:13). When Yeshua returns a 2nd time to reign on earth as King (Rev 5:10) in his inherited Kingdom, he also comes back as Judge. He will judge the then living and also the dead according to the Big 10 (James 2:12).
No one fully understands Hashem’s way of thinking or judging, but from Scripture, it does seem he is merciful and gives preferential treatment to some and not to others as you posted in Romans 9. It seems he uses or calls certain people in order to accomplish a certain end result that will demonstrate that he is the one that is running the show. Romans 9:11,12,17,20,21, etc. the whole chapter is really a good study.
Blessings in your search for TRUTH
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