Posted on 03/14/2008 10:02:39 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg
Only extremists believe that God would shun those of His creatures who have never been exposed to Christianity.
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You cannot live like the devil and end up with the angels. A deathbed confession would be an exception to that. The thief on the cross is an example.
You really think there's much difference? The New Testament says nobody was saved under the law. So keeping the law didn't save him. What did? He admitted his sin to the Lord and asked for mercy. The main difference between the Old and the New covenant is that prior to Jesus, They tried to keep the law and they trusted in God for forgiveness and salvation when they couldn't, and afterwards they understood what God did to provide that salvation and how much he love us.
It still comes down to faith in God and being forgiven.
Did animal sacrifices save the Hebrews? Passage Psalm 51:16-17: 16For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering. 17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
This is one of those arguments that serves primarily to discredit religion.
I think it was Augustin who said (paraphrase): “Love God and do what you like.”
YOU:
I agree that salvation is only possible through Christ. I also agree that one must accept the gift of salvation in order to be saved. In other words, salvation requires a response on the part of man. Do you agree with that?
ME; i agree here too, you can accept a gift, but just like any gift, you can refuse, or ‘return’ it later, you decide....
Yes, the response is accepting the gift.
I guess you missed my point. Until Christ’s sacrifice of His life and His resurrection from the dead, the New covenant was not in place. Christ had the power and authority to save anyone He wished while on the Earth. Under the New covenant, one is saved by accepting the gift of salvation by being obedient to the Gospel.
I completely agree. Amen.
Not true.
How would I know? I just know that God doesn’t whack himself in the head and exclaim “Oh snap, I forgot about Lemonjello. Someone was supposed to talk to him about Jesus. I need to get a Daytimer”.
God chose Jacob before Jacob was even born. Why? Not because of anything Jacob had done. It was an act of unmerited grace on the part of God.
God saves whom God saves.
Someone recently asked me how many people there will be in Heaven.
My answer was: as many as God wants.
Grace alone. Upon accepting the gift your spirit desires to be like Jesus and thus you do good works. There is no caveat to salvation that you must do works. The Christian does them out of his love for God and His Son.
An opposition to Grace alone: Revelation 22:12: “Behold, I am coming soon. I bring with me the recompense I will give to each according to his deeds”
Jesus here is talking about your deeds. The first deed He will look at is did you accept Him. If you did you are saved. If you did not then He looks at your other deeds and those will never measure up to His Holiness no matter what you did and thus you are cast into the lake of fire.
No. That was not my intention. My intention was a serious theological discussion.
I have been reading about this and comparing statements made by Paul and by James. I wanted to see how others looked at this issue.
John 10:29 (English Standard Version)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
According to Jesus, there is a "No Return" policy in place...
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day"
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Belief alone will not save you. These are Jesus's direct words. Works? Yep. Faith? Yep. Both? Yep.
Actually, that passage is talking about an entirely different dynamic. Jesus is referring to those who "cry Lord, Lord" but do not acknowledge Him as such. There are many of them highly visible in our world today. I'm sure you've run into the "I believe in God, but the Bible isn't the only truth" crowd? Those are the people Jesus is condemning in that passage of Scripture.
And the will of the Father in heaven is that "none would perish, but have everlasting life"...
Put whatever spin on this very direct scripture that you'd like. I'm going to accept it as written: that saying "Lord" is not enough; DOING the will is also required.
"Doing" is a verb, mandating action for completion.
To: raygunfan
{ME; i agree here too, you can accept a gift, but just like any gift, you can refuse, or ‘return’ it later, you decide..}
John 10:29 (English Standard Version)
29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
According to Jesus, there is a “No Return” policy in place...
ME: note it says ‘no one’ it doesnt say the individual cant.....we are not robots compelled to Christ against our will...some leave, some stay. Your free will is not compromised so that you cant decide to leave....
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