Justification: Through Faith alone?

3-14-08 | me

[SkyPilot]

The bible also says:

20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

Romans 1:20

What does this tell us?

Every human being is guilty before God, throughout history, and today. We know God's law. We don't need the Internet, or telephones, or this or that to know we are sinful. Or that sin is wrong. Believe me, everyone knows.

The movie the End of the Spear spoke a powerful message about a remote people who knew their warlike murder was wrong, but did it anyway. They almost killed each other off entirely. But - many of them were saved by Christ.

'I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people'" (Jer. 31:33).

And this:

Jesus is the living Torah, the Law or word of God made flesh.

We know what to do. God wrote it in our hearts.

Some call is "conscious."

Well, it isn't Jimney Cricket on your shoulder. It is the Law of God written in the hearts of all human beings.

Christ even reminded us of this, the inherent law, and the overt law, of God:

"If you love me, you will obey what I command."

John 14:15

What we need to do is preach the Good News to the world. As Nana said, don't limit God.

[Scourge of God]

What did the thief on the cross “do” to merit salvation?

Not one blessed thing. He didn't accept Jesus as his personal Savior. He didn't pray. He didn't repent. Perhaps he wasn't 'saved'.

[SkyPilot]

Have you forgotten that there are many people on this planet who have not been exposed to Christianity and never will be?

Then, get off your behind in front of your computer and fulfill this:

And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Mark 16:15

All of the world is condemned without Christ. But, God gives mercy to those he gives mercy too. Some hear His word, and the seed falls on good soil. You know the rest of the parable.

Christ also said His sheep hear His voice, did He not?

Those who are reached by God are reached by God's will.

Nothing can stop God.

But, not everyone is saved:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Matthew 7: 13-14

[SkyPilot]

Not one blessed thing. He didn't accept Jesus as his personal Savior. He didn't pray. He didn't repent. Perhaps he wasn't 'saved'.

Wow!

So Christ lied?

"TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE"

(Luke 23:43)

I'll tell you this Mr. Lucky.

The god you believe in is not the same one I believe in.

[Mr. Lucky]

Hello?

[SkyPilot]

Scourge of God - that post was meant for you, not Mr. Lucky.

My apologies to Mr. Lucky!

[SkyPilot]

I am still blown away by what Scourge of God said:

Not one blessed thing. He didn't accept Jesus as his personal Savior. He didn't pray. He didn't repent. Perhaps he wasn't 'saved'.

Amazing - and incredibly sad.

[Mr. Lucky]

He might want to re-read, or perhaps read for the first time Luke 23 starting at about verse 39 or so.

[LucyJo]

James 2:

17 - Even so faith,if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 - Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19 - Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20 - But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

[Mr. Lucky]

These verses provide the simplest genesis of the concept of “saving” Grace.

[MHGinTN]

Jesus answered what is the work God desires of man, when He was asked. Paul explained what happens AFTER the human spirit is cleansed and the Holy Spirit comes to indwell ... ‘be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind.’ THAT is the ‘work’ which God does and without which the mouthing of believing in Jesus is dead profession. Jesus told Nicodemus (John 3) that you must be born again. The exchange in which this came up was wrapped up in child birth, etc. A womb-bound child cannot act in the air world until born. Salvation comes first, then God’s indwelling Spirit brings forth works of righteousness. Without the Life of God in the soul/spirit of man (or woman), the character of God cannot be brought forth in a man(or woman).

[LucyJo]

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2321

The Thief on the Cross
by Dave Miller, Ph.D.

Legion are those who dismiss water baptism as prerequisite to salvation on the grounds that “the thief on the cross was not baptized.” The thought is that since the thief was suspended on the cross when Jesus said to him, “Today you will be with Me in paradise” (Luke 23:43), he was being pronounced as saved by Christ without being required to be baptized. As one well-known preacher put it, “There was no water within 10 miles of the cross.” Please give consideration to two important observations.

First, the thief may well have been baptized prior to being placed on the cross. Considerable scriptural evidence points to this conclusion (Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4-5; Luke 3:21; 7:29-30). If he was, in fact, baptized, he would have been baptized with the baptism administered by John the baptizer. John’s baptism was temporary (i.e., in force only during his personal ministry, terminating at the death of Christ). However, even John’s baptism was “for the remission of sins” (Mark 1:4) and, hence, essential for salvation for those to whom it was addressed. John’s baptism, like the one administered by Jesus while He was on Earth (John 3:22,26; 4:1-2), was unique and temporary. It was addressed only to Jews, and only to the Jews who populated the vicinity of Jerusalem and Judea. It was designed to prepare the Jewish people for the arrival of the Messiah. But John’s baptism must not be confused with New Testament baptism that is addressed to everybody, and that did not take effect until after the cross of Christ. If the thief was a Jew, and if he already had submitted to John’s baptism, there would have been no need for him to be re-baptized. He simply would have needed to repent of his post-baptism thievery and acknowledge his sins—which the text plainly indicates that he did.

Second, and most important, the real issue pertains to an extremely crucial feature of Bible interpretation. This hermeneutical feature is so critical that, if a person does not grasp it, his effort to sort out Bible teaching, in order to arrive at correct conclusions, will be inevitably hampered. This principle was spotlighted by Paul when he wrote to Timothy and told him he must “rightly divide the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15). In other words, if one simply takes the entire Bible—all 66 books—and treats them as if everything that is said applies directly and equally to everyone, his effort to be in harmony with God’s Word will be hopeless and futile. For example, if a person turned to Genesis 6 and read where God instructed Noah to build a boat, if he did not study enough to determine whether such instruction applied to himself, he would end up building his own boat—the entire time thinking that God wanted him to do so! The Bible is literally filled with commands, instructions, and requirements that were not intended to be duplicated by people living today. Does God forbid you and me from eating a certain fruit (Genesis 2:17; 3:3)? Are we to refrain from boiling a baby goat in its mother’s milk (Exodus 23:19)? Does God want you and me to offer our son as a burnt offering (Genesis 22:2)? Are we commanded to load up and leave our homeland (Genesis 12:1)? Moving to the New Testament, does God want you to sell everything you have and give it to the poor (Matthew 19:21)? Does God expect you to leave everything, quit your job, and devote yourself full time to spiritual pursuits (Matthew 4:20; 19:27; Mark 10:28; Luke 5:28)? Does God intend for you to “desire spiritual gifts” (1 Corinthians 14:1), i.e., seek to possess miraculous abilities? The point is that the entire Bible applies to the entire human race. However, careful and diligent study is necessary to determine how it applies. We must understand the biblical distinction between the application of the principles of the Bible and the specific details.

Here, then, is the central point as it pertains to the relevance of the thief on the cross: Beginning at Creation, all humans were amenable to the laws of God that were given to them at that time. Bible students typically call this period of time the Patriarchal Dispensation. During this period, which lasted from Creation to roughly the time of the cross, non-Jews were subject to a body of legislation passed down by God through the fathers of family clans (cf. Hebrews 11:1). In approximately 1,500 B.C., God removed the genetic descendants of Abraham from Egyptian bondage, took them out into the Sinai desert, and gave them their own law code (the Law of Moses). Jews were subject to that body of legal information from that time until it, too, was terminated at the cross of Christ. The following passages substantiate these assertions: Matthew 27:51; Romans 2:12-16; Galatians 3:7-29; Ephesians 2:11-22; Colossians 2:11-17. The book of Hebrews addresses this subject extensively. To get to the heart of the matter quickly, read especially Hebrews 9:15-17. When one “correctly handles the Word of truth,” one sees that the Bible teaches that when Christ died on the cross, Mosaic law came to an end, and patriarchal law shortly thereafter. At that point, all humans on the planet became amenable to the law of Christ (cf. Galatians 6:2). The law of Christ consists strictly of information that is intended to be in effect after the death of Christ. It includes some of the things that Jesus and His disciples taught while He was still on Earth. But as regards the specifics of salvation, one must go to Acts 2 and the rest of the New Testament (especially the book of Acts) in order to determine what one must do today to be saved. Beginning in Acts 2, the new covenant of Christ took effect, and every single individual who responded correctly to the preaching of the gospel was baptized in water in order to be forgiven of sin by the blood of Christ. Every detail of an individual’s conversion is not always mentioned, but a perusal of the book of Acts demonstrates decisively that water immersion was a prerequisite to forgiveness, along with faith, repentance, and confession of the deity of Christ (Acts 2:38,41; 8:12,13,16,36-38; 9:18; 10:47-48; 16:15,33; 18:8; 19:5; 22:16).

The thief was not subject to the New Testament command to be baptized into Christ’s death (Romans 6:3-4), just as Moses, Abraham, and David were not amenable to it. They all lived prior to the cross under different law codes. They could not have been baptized into Christ’s death—because He had not yet died! The establishment of the church of Christ and the launching of the Christian religion did not occur until after Christ’s death, on the day of Pentecost in the year A.D. 30 in the city of Jerusalem (Acts 2). An honest and accurate appraisal of the biblical data forces us to conclude that the thief on the cross is not an appropriate example of how people are to be saved this side of the cross.

[topcat54]

The life and death of Jesus Christ is the sole basis of our justification, faith in Christ is the sole instrument of our justification, and good works are the necessary result of a life thus justified.

It’s quite simple. Confusion can place your eternal soul in jeopardy.

[MHGinTN]

Water baptism is not a requirement for Salvation to be instituted. Water baptism is a public affirmation of to Whose Family the Saved belongs. An unsaved person can be baptised in the same way but will not become saved through baptism. Being Born Again happens in the spirit realm, not the spacetime we sense. HOWEVER, the new alignemnt of spirit, given time, will manifest the character of God in the life of the Born Again.

[Tennessee Nana]

Only extremists believe that God would shun those of His creatures who have never been exposed to Christianity.
_______________________________________________________

Jesus died for the whole world, but the whole world will not be saved...

And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:14-21

[Tennessee Nana]

Is that a story like “Heaven’s Gate” ????

[Tennessee Nana]

What about Ephisians 2:8, 9 ???

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast Ephesians 2:8, 9

Grace is a free gift...

You cant buy it, bargain for it...or work for it...

You best works are as filthy rags to God...

What can you do that is better than Jesus dying on the Cross ????

The cross was a finished work...

Jesus Christ said so Himself “IT IS FINISHED”

And what kind of faith ???

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

But without faith it is impossible to please Him (God): for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek Him. Hebrews 11:1, 6

[Tennessee Nana]

The thief was not subject to the New Testament command to be baptized into Christ’s death
___________________________________________

John the Baptist....

[swmobuffalo]

“Have you forgotten that there are many people on this planet who have not been exposed to Christianity and never will be”

What is your point here? Do YOU feel faith alone isn’t enough? Far more have been exposed to Christianity than ever before and there are some, lacking missionaries, who feel the Spirit move them to search Him out.

I go by what the Bible says, Faith first, works as evidence of that faith.

[swmobuffalo]

“actually, you are saved by grace....the faith has to be shown thru your works, or as James said, your faith is dead....”

Actually, that’s the gist of what I said. I’m well aware of what James said.