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Closet Catholic In the White House? (you be the judge)
Creative Minority Reports ^ | April 15, 2008 | Patrick Archbold

Posted on 04/15/2008 8:07:25 AM PDT by NYer

Daniel Burke at the Washington Post thinks that President Bush might be pulling a Tony Blair. Burke tells of the Catholic based culture that rules the west wing and some other lingering suspicions.

Shortly after Pope Benedict XVI's election in 2005, President Bush met with a small circle of advisers in the Oval Office. As some mentioned their own religious backgrounds, the president remarked that he had read one of the new pontiff's books about faith and culture in Western Europe.

Save for one other soul, Bush was the only non-Catholic in the room. But his interest in the pope's writings was no surprise to those around him. As the White House prepares to welcome Benedict on Tuesday, many in Bush's inner circle expect the pontiff to find a kindred spirit in the president. Because if Bill Clinton can be called America's first black president, some say, then George W. Bush could well be the nation's first Catholic president.

***

"I don't think there's any question about it," says Rick Santorum, former U.S. senator from Pennsylvania and a devout Catholic, who was the first to give Bush the "Catholic president" label. "He's certainly much more Catholic than Kennedy."
While this concept of a Catholic run White House may be humorous to some, Fr. Richard John Neuhaus says that it is not so far fetched.
Bush has also placed Catholics in prominent roles in the federal government and relied on Catholic tradition to make a public case for everything from his faith-based initiative to antiabortion legislation. He has wedded Catholic intellectualism with evangelical political savvy to forge a powerful electoral coalition.

"There is an awareness in the White House that the rich Catholic intellectual tradition is a resource for making the links between Christian faith, religiously grounded moral judgments and public policy," says Richard John Neuhaus, a Catholic priest and editor of the journal First Things who has tutored Bush in the church's social doctrines for nearly a decade.
Finally, Burke hints that some close to the President might not be suprised if he pulled a Tony Blair one day by converting after leaving office.
Moreover, people close to Bush say that he has professed a not-so-secret admiration for the church's discipline and is personally attracted to the breadth and unity of its teachings. A New York priest who has befriended the president said that Bush respects the way Catholicism starts at the foundation -- with the notion that the papacy is willed by God and that the pope is Peter's successor. "I think what fascinates him about Catholicism is its historical plausibility," says this priest. "He does appreciate the systematic theology of the church, its intellectual cogency and stability." The priest also says that Bush "is not unaware of how evangelicalism -- by comparison with Catholicism -- may seem more limited both theologically and historically."

Former Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson, another evangelical with an affinity for Catholic teaching, says that the key to understanding Bush's domestic policy is to view it through the lens of Rome. Others go a step further.

Paul Weyrich, an architect of the religious right, detects in Bush shades of former British prime minister Tony Blair, who converted to Catholicism last year. "I think he is a secret believer," Weyrich says of Bush. Similarly, John DiIulio, Bush's first director of faith-based initiatives, has called the president a "closet Catholic." And he was only half-kidding.
Color me skeptical, but I don't think so.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: bush; catholic; pope; whitehouse
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To: Religion Moderator

I did not realize that that information was banned here, so I do regret the posting thereof.

Do the same rules apply to Catholic Freepers who bash Prots?

Thank you.


101 posted on 04/15/2008 10:34:22 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: Beloved Levinite

that is what baffles me about the Protestants. i don’t get why they feel the need to worry about OUR problems. i certainly would never presume to stick my nose in to a Protestant scandal and opine, i would feel it wasn’t my place and that they would sort it out, with God’s help. maybe the FR Protestants might consider that God has this Catholic scandal firmly in hand and will deal with it, and so, stop belittling our FAITH.


102 posted on 04/15/2008 10:36:00 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: NYer
Are we allowed to actually discuss the contents of the article?

"I don't think there's any question about it," says Rick Santorum, former U.S. senator from Pennsylvania and a devout Catholic, who was the first to give Bush the "Catholic president" label. "He's certainly much more Catholic than Kennedy."

I appreciate Sen. Santorum's vote of confidence, but he sets the bar pretty low. JFK was the original CINO ... and Fat Drunk Ted seems to go out of his way to flout not just Catholic Doctrine but the most fundamental principles of morality.

103 posted on 04/15/2008 10:36:23 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Beloved Levinite
The Religion Forum is not ecumenic. Open threads are for open debate - they are like a "town square."

But discuss the issues only. Do not make it personal. Click on my profile page for more guidelines to the Religion Forum.

As to banning sources, it doesn't matter what theology is being promoted or attacked - but if we consider it to be "hate mongering" we will not allow it.

104 posted on 04/15/2008 10:40:19 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Religion Moderator

Mr. Moderator,

With all due respect...I do not agree, nor support hate speech...and I do regret posting the K of C oath if it was false...but, changing gears, is what you are saying, that Catholics & Protestants cannot challenge eachothers doctrines here, because such will be called “hate speech?”

Thank you.


105 posted on 04/15/2008 10:41:11 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: xsmommy; Beloved Levinite
The priest scandals are a red herring, for reasons that should be obvious to anyone following along.

Sexual predation is horrendous and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, as we now know today. However, back when the "cover-ups" occurred, the prevailing mindset was that with "treatment" and "prayerful consideration", a molester could be rehabilitiated. This is, again, as we know today, wrong, but back then no one "knew" that, in fact, because of the 60's and 70's and the blossoming of psychotherapy, it was believed there was no behavioral problem that couldn't be "fixed" by therapy.

Given this, we can see that there wasn't any nefarious intent behind the "coverups", reassignments, and personnel changes. It was a horrible mistake, don't get me wrong, but it certainly isn't evidence of any evil intent, on the part of the Church, to intentionally subject children to monsters. It wasn't intended, because again, back then we had no idea these "people" were so incorrigible.

106 posted on 04/15/2008 10:46:10 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven

good points.


107 posted on 04/15/2008 10:47:14 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: dangus

IMO, he will become Catholic soon after leaving the White House.


108 posted on 04/15/2008 10:47:58 AM PDT by georgia peach (georgia peach)
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To: AnAmericanMother

That was my next question. I thought that Jeb was Catholic. That is the brother you are referring to, right?


109 posted on 04/15/2008 10:51:26 AM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: sitetest

Vivat Jesus indeed. Not only will I be attending the State convention this year, but I’ve been invited by my State Deputy to attend the Supreme convention in Quebec City. You bet I’m going! The priest who performed the ceremony in which my wife and I were wed, her cousin, is an Archbishop now and he’s going to be there too. I’m trying to surprise my wife with a renewal of vows ceremony with him.


110 posted on 04/15/2008 10:51:42 AM PDT by Andyman (The truth shall make you freep.)
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To: FourtySeven; xsmommy

SNAP, the support group for over 9,000 of the abuse, claims the Pope has not gone far enough to protect the children that are still vulnerable. Now, Catholics here seem to want to villify SNAP, but I tend to agree with them. IF they had proof to the contrary, I’m sure they would acknowledge it.

Regards.


111 posted on 04/15/2008 10:53:07 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: Liz

Alas, we can’t mention them. They call “GOD”, “Allah” ya know.


112 posted on 04/15/2008 10:53:09 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: lastchance

It really is crazy to think people believe that crap! I remember when I first met a friend of mine and she asked me,since I had told her I was Catholic,what it was like to go to confession. At first I made up a bunch of wild and crazy things and laughed. And then I told her it was refreshing and I always felt closer to God after going through my thoughts and reflecting upon my sins and repenting. And that I appreciate the act of receiving a penance. And then I said WE DON’T WORSHIP MARY,just to get that out of the way! She is a baptist and we are very good friends now and have been for about eight years.


113 posted on 04/15/2008 10:54:13 AM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: AppyPappy
I’m sorry if I offended you. I didn’t realize you guys were so sensitive. Please don’t sue me or have me arrested for creating an envionment of fear where you were made to feel uncomfortable. I promise not to make light of anything Catholic so you don’t have to relive the horror of this day.

Appy, as a Baptist, I'm a little embarrassed at your rudeness toward Catholics, who -- if they confess Jesus Christ as their savior -- are our brothers and sisters in Christ (I'm assuming that you claim Christ as your savior). Your "apology" to two ladies whom I know to be very devout and sincere believers and who pointed out that your posts were offensive seems a little less sincere and a lot more condescending than slick willy's infamous mea culpa after his finger-wagging "i did not have sex with that woman" was proven to be a lie. I would hope that in the future you would, if for no other reason than to just be a decent person capable of common courtesy, hold yourself to a higher standard than not "creating an environment of fear".

I think you got off to a bad start on this thread with your "bowing and scraping before all those statues" comment. While some may have thought you were insulting the Pope with that comment, I'm pretty sure you actually intended it instead as an insult of Catholics in general. Perhaps your discussions on some other threads about religion might inspire others to follow your example, I sure hope you don't think your comments on this thread would be considered worthy of emulation.

114 posted on 04/15/2008 10:54:43 AM PDT by VRWCmember (Philippians 4:8)
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To: FourtySeven; xsmommy; Beloved Levinite
The priest scandals are a red herring,

There would not be priest scandals, if the Roman church
followed the commandments of YHvh and promoted marriage.
b'SHEM Yah'shua
115 posted on 04/15/2008 10:54:53 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Tax-chick

“I don’t think President Bush shows any sign of being dissatisfied with his present religious beliefs and practices.”

It wouldn’t be a sign of dissatisfication, but building on his current beliefs.


116 posted on 04/15/2008 10:55:01 AM PDT by murron (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: AppyPappy
"You are a liar. I never mentioned the Pope. I said a Bishop."

If you knew what you were talking about you would know that the Pope is the Bishop of Rome.

117 posted on 04/15/2008 10:55:51 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: red irish

irish,

re: confession - Were you ever taught that the priest, during your confession, is given the power, by either God or the Church, to forgive your confessed sins?

Thanks.


118 posted on 04/15/2008 10:58:39 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: Natural Law
Those are just examples of some of the more humorous items.

My most embarrassing moment with a Catholic around (which embarrassed them but not me) was when I took this girl to her Sr. Prom. which took place in the Secina highschool basement cafeteria/meeting room.

At some point in the prom everybody gathered over in front of a Mary statue and prayed.

I think every person there (couple of hundred of them) apologized to me for that event.

Struck me as absolutely enlightening ~ I had not realized before then that Catholics did group prayer (heh, heh).

119 posted on 04/15/2008 10:58:47 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Andyman
Dear Andyman,

“Vivat Jesus indeed. Not only will I be attending the State convention this year, but I’ve been invited by my State Deputy to attend the Supreme convention in Quebec City.”

Have fun!

“The priest who performed the ceremony in which my wife and I were wed, her cousin, is an Archbishop now and he’s going to be there too.”

Wow! Cool!

“I’m trying to surprise my wife with a renewal of vows ceremony with him.”

That's very nice of you.

Good luck on your trip to the Supreme Convention, and be safe!


sitetest

120 posted on 04/15/2008 10:59:02 AM PDT by sitetest (If Roe is not overturned, no unborn child will ever be protected in law.)
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To: Deo volente

Is that right after he called the Grand Knight the Grand Dragon or what? (which I’ve seen happen)


121 posted on 04/15/2008 11:00:28 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Tax-chick

Gad, I hadn’t realized they wash those dishes!


122 posted on 04/15/2008 11:01:40 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: xsmommy
"not a single Catholic on this forum is going to dispute the fact of the abuse or the cover-up"

Every Church and faith is an institution of man and, is therefore, by definition, imperfect. I, like the Pope, am deeply embarrassed, disgusted, and saddened by the abuse. I even recognize the hypocrisy of a cover-up of sins by those who profess and hear public confessions of others. I choose to look to the greater good. The bottom line is that the world and the US are better places because of the Catholic Church than they would be without it.

Even though one case of abuse is too many it was not rampant. I organized, trained, and scheduled the altar servers at my parish for over ten years and in doing so dealt with many other parishes in my diocese and never once encountered or suspected abuse. It is unfair and intellectually dishonest to single out the Church as the only institute that that has problems with its human elements.

123 posted on 04/15/2008 11:07:30 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: XeniaSt
There would not be priest scandals, if the Roman church followed the commandments of YHvh and promoted marriage.

This is why there is far more child molestation in public schools than there has ever been in the Catholic Church, because the public schools refuse to follow the commandments of YHvh and promote marriage.

Hey, Chuck, has it ever occurred to you that Jesus, according to the Catholic Church, raised marriage to the dignity of a sacrament? Did you know that it was Martin Luther and the other Reformers who demoted it to a merely civil contract?

124 posted on 04/15/2008 11:08:54 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Beloved Levinite
Catholics and Protestants get very contentious on the open threads. That is the nature of Religious Debate.

Posters with thin skin should stay on the closed threads: devotionals, prayer threads and caucuses.

Like pornography, we know "hate mongering" when we see it. Most of the posts around here are not hate mongering - but some of the websites out there not only try to stir people away from a belief but encourage them to detest the people who practice the belief.

As the old saying goes, "hate the sin and love the sinner," and you'll be ok.

125 posted on 04/15/2008 11:09:53 AM PDT by Religion Moderator
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To: Beloved Levinite
Were you ever taught that the priest, during your confession, is given the power, by either God or the Church, to forgive your confessed sins?

Yes. Jesus taught me that in John 20:23.

126 posted on 04/15/2008 11:10:43 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Beloved Levinite; xsmommy
Some of the "apologists" used pretty much the same sort of logic and language as the more recent "apologists" for FLDS who've signed up within the last week or so.

Is it possible these are the same people and they aren't just representing a Catholic or FLDS point of view but rather the point of view of some group like NAMBLA?

Someone with access to the posters URLs could probably figure it out ~ might be of interest to LEOs who dig up pedophiles.

127 posted on 04/15/2008 11:15:55 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Beloved Levinite

The cool thing is the dagger is hidden in the cross. The long branch of the cross slides off to reveal the blade and we can stab people willy-nilly then put the “scabbard” back on and nobody’s the wiser! Of course, the blade is magic and will work only on non-believers. This way, we can put the cross AND the dagger IN hearts and only have to move once.

One of the great benefits of being a Knight!


128 posted on 04/15/2008 11:18:09 AM PDT by Andyman (The truth shall make you freep.)
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To: XeniaSt
" There would not be priest scandals, if the Roman church followed the commandments of YHvh and promoted marriage."

I never cease to be amazed at how firmly some clutch to their own ignorance and condemn or criticize what they are ignorant of. As husbands and fathers our first priority is to our families before our neighbors and community. A priest's first priority must be to his flock. Having a wife and family would compromise this.

129 posted on 04/15/2008 11:18:09 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: xsmommy
We Protestants worry about what the Catholics are doing because so terribly many of us have relatives or friends, or guys sitting next to us in church on Sunday (or Saturday as the case may be) who are Catholics.
130 posted on 04/15/2008 11:19:20 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Campion

Well, Jesus taught *me* the follwing,

Jesus words from Luke 5: 20-21: And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

(Seems pretty clear to me.)


131 posted on 04/15/2008 11:21:13 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: Campion

Well, Jesus taught *me* the following,

Jesus words from Luke 5: 20-21: And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee. And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

(Seems pretty clear to me.)


132 posted on 04/15/2008 11:21:16 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: Liz; NYer
Election night, 2004 (icon of the Virgin Mary on the table in the background)



Sorry, I couldn't find a larger pic.
133 posted on 04/15/2008 11:21:26 AM PDT by Deo volente
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To: muawiyah

I think God will deal with the situation. you can relax. my brother is a Protestant, i might inquire what is going on in his church but i would be loathe to opine or pass judgment on whatever their issues might be.


134 posted on 04/15/2008 11:21:53 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Tax-chick; lastchance
Did I reveal one from 4th Degree Knights of Columbus secret list? They’ll never let me wash dishes at a fish fry again!

Oh, great, TC. After developing the invisible ink on my Opus Dei albino monk assassin assignment list, guess whose name is on it. Way to go! [sigh]

Unfortunately, I've been really busy worshipping my plaster statue of Fatima (she's Mohammed's daughter, you know) so my list of "holy hits" just gets longer, and longer, and longer ...

P.S. -- Don't forget to mention that the AA batteries are stolen from toys belonging to Bible-believers' children.

135 posted on 04/15/2008 11:23:29 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Beloved Levinite

It is indeed ironic that you choose to use the arguments of the Pharisees, not the words of Christ, to support your position.


136 posted on 04/15/2008 11:23:33 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: Campion

Luke 5:24 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.


137 posted on 04/15/2008 11:27:59 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: Beloved Levinite

All forgiveness goes through Christ,and it is through the power of the holy spirit and the priesthood that forgives sins. They work together. And yes I can ask for for Gods mercy and ask for forgiveness without a priest. But preparing ones conscience to go to confession and really considering the life one lives as a Christian with the help of the holy spirit to guide one to the truth of his or her life as a Christian can be a narrow road to approach sin. And I also believe we Christians can live the truth of the Gospel and forgive one another as well. But too many people today do not see sin,they see mistakes. How many churches today condone abortion and homosexuality as ok. We Christians who truly believe in the Gospel of Christ need to stand together and remember Ephesians 6:12,it is not one another where the fight is but the enemies of Christ and sin.


138 posted on 04/15/2008 11:29:09 AM PDT by red irish (Gods Children in the womb are to be loved too!)
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To: Beloved Levinite
Jesus taught *me* the following ... the scribes and the Pharisees

Jesus taught you to get your doctrine from men who were conspiring to kill him?

139 posted on 04/15/2008 11:29:10 AM PDT by Campion
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To: Deo volente

Thanks-—good pic.

The one I remember was more of a closeup of Bush with the icon.


140 posted on 04/15/2008 11:31:54 AM PDT by Liz (Without the brave, there'd be no land of the free. Senator Fred Thompson)
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To: AppyPappy

I stand corrected, you did say Bishop. Sorry for my mistake. I have no idea what bishop you refer to, there are many decent ones even here in the USA.

I stand corrected you did not lie about our pope. OK?


141 posted on 04/15/2008 11:32:21 AM PDT by tioga
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To: Natural Law

The Pharasees were the most devoted & scripturally educated of God’s chosen people, were smart enough to know that only God could forgive sin.


142 posted on 04/15/2008 11:32:49 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: xsmommy
You really shouldn't be reticent to speak up about problems. For instance you might have a relative in the FLDS. I have relatives in an identical cult and I am very critical of it.

Last thing I'll ever do is leave it up to the Deacons and Elders in any Christian or quasi-Christian organization to control the flow of information in and out of the congregation.

I'm sure the Pope will agree with me ~ listen closely to him this week.

143 posted on 04/15/2008 11:34:45 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Beloved Levinite
"The Pharasees were the most devoted & scripturally educated of God’s chosen people, were smart enough to know that only God could forgive sin."

Well, remember they were arguing with Jesus who actually authored the work. In any biblical trivia contest I would bet on Jesus over the Pharisees.

144 posted on 04/15/2008 11:35:57 AM PDT by Natural Law
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To: tioga
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:P-U7FEhLU4IeOM:http://sbschool.net/wargo.jpg

This guy looks virtually identical to the current Pope. Folks who've met them both have remarked on this very close resemblence.

Anyway, Mr. Wargo, the Pope, and I have the same voice quality over the telephone.

This weekend if you receive a call from "the Pope", be careful how you deal with it.

145 posted on 04/15/2008 11:38:00 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: red irish

Wow. (shuddders....)


146 posted on 04/15/2008 11:38:35 AM PDT by Beloved Levinite ("HOBo's already done more damage to race relations than Sharpton-Jacko combined.")
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To: muawiyah

no, i do not have any relatives in the FLDS, i assure you. i have never personally laid eyes on a polygamist in my life.


147 posted on 04/15/2008 11:38:49 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Beloved Levinite; Campion
Let's try to stay on topic, shall we?

John 20: 21He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you. 22When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. 23Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Act 1:24And praying, they said: Thou, Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25To take the place of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas hath by transgression fallen, that he might go to his own place. 26And they gave them lots, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Seems pretty clear to me. And that's all that matters, right? Perspicuity, right? Private interpretation, right?

Is there an infallible interpreter of Scripture on this forum?

148 posted on 04/15/2008 11:38:54 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: tioga; AppyPappy

The Pope IS a Bishop (the Bishop of Rome).


149 posted on 04/15/2008 11:40:56 AM PDT by Petronski (Bitterly clinging to religion and guns here in Penna.)
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To: Beloved Levinite
They were so "devoted" and "scripturally educated" that they were "smart enough" not to recognize the Messiah when he came.

Re-read Matthew 15:1-20 and chapter 23, and get back to us on Jesus' high praise of the Pharisees.

150 posted on 04/15/2008 11:41:00 AM PDT by Campion
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