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To: philly-d-kidder
do you really think he would allow Saints and the Rosary and the Like without his blessing?

Obviously He has...He has also let the blind lead the blind into the ditch...

If you can trace your lineage back to Jesus Christ, sure you are member of His Body...Just as I can trace my lineage back to Jesus...I was 'begat' by Jesus...

Your religion on the other hand, took a left turn while the Apostle Paul was teaching the Galatians...

In fact, Paul was recruiting the Gentiles for the Adoption into the Body of Jesus Christ while he was in Rome...

Jesus gave Paul an additional Gospel to preach and teach...The Gospel of the Grace of God...
Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

That's where your church took a left turn...

Paul was the top dog in the 'adopted' Gentile church while in Rome, or any where else for that matter...It is ludicrous to even suggest that the Apostle Paul was subservient to a bishop in Rome that someone determined (according to Your history) would be 1st in line after Peter...This wasn't Peter's idea or he would have recorded it...

And it's just as ludicrous to think that Peter's first in line bishop would have charge over Paul's Gentile church when Peter's ministry was to the Jews...

Jesus may have started your church, and my church and many other offshoots, but your church in the original form couldn't have lasted more than a few years...

13 posted on 04/16/2008 5:49:41 AM PDT by Iscool
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To: Iscool
"And it's just as ludicrous to think that Peter's first in line bishop would have charge over Paul's Gentile church when Peter's ministry was to the Jews...

Of course, you willfully neglect the FACT that the first Gentiles were brought into the Church by Peter, under direct orders from God, and NOT by Paul--which totally demolishes your "argument".

ALL Apostles ministered to ALL Christians. True, Paul went MOSTLY to the Gentiles, mainly because a lot of Jewish Christians felt that he couldn't be trusted due to his early persecutions of them.

15 posted on 04/16/2008 6:36:41 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel-NRA)
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To: Iscool
That's where your church took a left turn...

We took Ephesians 2 out? We have no dispute with Sola Gratia.

ludicrous to think that Peter's first in line bishop would have charge over Paul's Gentile church when Peter's ministry was to the Jews...

Paul's Gentile church? Paul did not think of his ministry in this way at all: he stressed that he is an apostle of Christ who speeks with the authority of Christ to one Church of Christ into Whom all were baptized, and there were no Greek or Jew to Him. Further, St,. Peter baptized the first Gentile. The separation of function between Peter and Paul was tactical, not doctrinal anbd surely not administrative.

20 posted on 04/16/2008 7:38:58 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Iscool
There wasn't a "Gentile church". There wasn't a "Jewish church," either, after Pentecost. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Not two. In fact, the early Catholic Christians called themselves "the third race" -- that is, neither Jew nor Gentile.

Nor did Paul have a different gospel for Gentiles. In fact, the whole point of the early chapters of Romans is that Gentiles and Jews are saved under exactly the same plan and the same rules. Nobody is saved apart from grace.

Read Paul again if you don't believe me. Start with Galatians 3 and Ephesians 3:1-6.

39 posted on 04/18/2008 3:34:07 PM PDT by Campion
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