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Orthodox and Catholic Churches are allies, (Orthodox) Bishop Hilarion says
CNA ^ | 4/24/2008

Posted on 04/24/2008 2:55:06 AM PDT by markomalley

Orthodox and Catholic Churches are allies, Bishop Hilarion says


.- Bishop Hilarion, the Russian Orthodox Bishop of Vienna and Austria, has said in an interview that the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are allies who could form a strategic alliance to defend Christian values, Interfax reports.   He also criticized many Protestants for having a “light version” of Christianity.

Speaking to the Bulgarian magazine Christianity and Culture, Bishop Hilarion said, “We must realize that Orthodox and Catholic believers are no longer rivals. We are allies. The rivalry must be gone once and for all. If we understand that, proselytism will stop.”
 
The bishop said that “romantic ecumenism,“ which he said characterizes the World Council of Churches and the Conference of European Churches, is not viable.  He said that many Protestants have created a “light version of Christianity, without apostolic succession, without sacraments, without strict dogmatic teaching and what is also important they don't require sticking to Christian moral norms.”

He said this version of Christianity, when it revises Christian theological or moral teachings to become more “modern” or “politically correct,” becomes “a direct way to spiritual death.”  He said this version of Christianity had stopped recognizing centuries-old sins, and now even promotes them.

Bishop Hilarion’s statement comes just days after Pope Benedict addressed an ecumenical gathering in New York where he also denounced versions of Christianity that contradict apostolic teachings. At the gathering of about 300 people, the Pope said that Christian churches which change their beliefs by so-called ‘prophetic actions,’ often use a method of interpretation that is inconsistent with Scripture and Tradition.

The Holy Father added that this causes those interested in Christianity to become “understandably confused about the Gospel message itself” because they see Christians splintering and disagreeing about the beliefs of the faith.

The “message that the world is waiting to hear from us,” the Pope said, is “a clear, convincing testimony to the salvation wrought for us in Christ Jesus”… “based upon the notion of normative apostolic teaching: a teaching which indeed underlies the inspired word of God and sustains the sacramental life of Christians today.”
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=12388

According to Interfax, Bishop Hilarion said a joint Orthodox-Catholic “front” is necessary to oppose both the challenges of secularism and dialogue with other world religions.  Bilateral, strategic partnerships between the two Churches, he thought, would be the best way to achieve this.

“I don't mean union, administrative merger or compromise in theological teaching, I mean strategical partnership," said Bishop Hilarion, who is also the Russian Orthodox Church Representative to European International Organizations.


TOPICS: Catholic; Ecumenism; Orthodox Christian; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 04/24/2008 2:55:06 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley
Bishop Hilarion, the Russian Orthodox Bishop of Vienna and Austria, has said in an interview that the Orthodox and Catholic Churches are allies who could form a strategic alliance to defend Christian values, Interfax reports. He also criticized many Protestants for having a “light version” of Christianity.

Sure, defend Christianity by taking shots at other Christians, this is right of Christ's teachings (SIC). Christ loves us all and no one (bishops included) should judge others if they are light or otherwise in their Christian faith.

Incidentally, I was raised Christian Orthodox and this man completely disappoints me. But than maybe because he is just a man (and I don't mean gender).
2 posted on 04/24/2008 3:26:24 AM PDT by FORTRUTHONLY
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To: FORTRUTHONLY

He’s made a lot of very provocative statements about the Catholic Church, as well. I posted the article because it was incredibly (and shockingly) ecumenical of +Hilarion.


3 posted on 04/24/2008 3:37:33 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley

Thanks for the article.


4 posted on 04/24/2008 3:49:55 AM PDT by FORTRUTHONLY
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To: markomalley

Wow, he sure looks young for a Bishop. What is he, twenty-three?


5 posted on 04/24/2008 4:01:40 AM PDT by beachdweller
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To: FORTRUTHONLY
Sure, defend Christianity by taking shots at other Christians, this is right of Christ's teachings (SIC).

Considering the number of "Christian" churches with openly homosexual clergy, he is correct in pointing out those that do evil and call it "good."

6 posted on 04/24/2008 5:33:25 AM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: markomalley
“I don't mean union, administrative merger or compromise in theological teaching, I mean strategical partnership,"

OK ... "strategical partnership" is good ... folks in a "strategical partnership" tend to talk and listen respectfully to each other.

In this case, that's good.

7 posted on 04/24/2008 5:56:57 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: markomalley

hopefully this will help heal the schism that has been a horrible wound to the body of the Apostolic Church.

Even when in full Communion, the Eastern (Orthodox) and Western (Catholic) halves of the original Church had theological and practical disagreements (for example, the role and power of the Pope). Hopefully they can reach some sort of agreement or compromise solution that will allow these two halves of the original Apostolic Church to enter back into Communion with each other.


8 posted on 04/24/2008 6:02:38 AM PDT by ChurtleDawg (voting only encourages them)
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To: FormerLib
"Considering the number of "Christian" churches with openly homosexual clergy, he is correct in pointing out those that do evil and call it "good."

Some nominally Christian churches also preach racial division and class envy...


9 posted on 04/24/2008 6:06:59 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: markomalley

God bless Bishop Hilarion!

I don’t really care whether their hosts are leavened or unleavened, or whether they think the west has, since Augustine, put to fine a point to original sin (we probably have). And as long as they continue forth in Christianity as they have, I think it quite secondary if they don’t obey the Pope. As long as they obey the Pope’s boss. :^)

We have a common foe, Satan, and he is running rampant across all our lands. He is destroying Christianity across the globe. But more importantly, we have a common savior. And He is gathering his flock.


10 posted on 04/24/2008 6:08:12 AM PDT by dangus
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To: markomalley

>> Bishop Hilarion, the Russian Orthodox Bishop of Vienna and Austria, <<

Last I saw Vienna wasn’t in Russia, but that’s quite alright. We need all the help we can get in providing spiritual leadership for Vienna.


11 posted on 04/24/2008 6:11:22 AM PDT by dangus
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To: markomalley; sionnsar

>> Bishop Hilarion’s statement comes just days after Pope Benedict addressed an ecumenical gathering in New York where he also denounced versions of Christianity that contradict apostolic teachings. At the gathering of about 300 people, the Pope said that Christian churches which change their beliefs by so-called ‘prophetic actions,’ often use a method of interpretation that is inconsistent with Scripture and Tradition.

The Holy Father added that this causes those interested in Christianity to become “understandably confused about the Gospel message itself” because they see Christians splintering and disagreeing about the beliefs of the faith. <<

I thought the Anglican ping list might be interested in these comments. They seemed aimed at TEC / Church of England


12 posted on 04/24/2008 6:18:15 AM PDT by dangus
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To: FormerLib

This is true yet does not excuse his comments/


13 posted on 04/24/2008 3:29:56 PM PDT by FORTRUTHONLY
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To: FormerLib
You know, though I'm Lutheran (Missouri Synod, not the liberal ELCA), I am beginning, more and more, to understand the need for a central head of the Church on earth and for a type of authority when it comes to doctrine and scripture.

The Catholics do have a point in their argument about Protestantism. Because this is why you have open homosexuals serving in the Episcopal Church and other liberal denominations also going over the cliff - the United Methodists, the Presbyterian Church USA, the ELCA, etc. Without a central authority, the liberals can gain control of a denomination and push their agenda on the entire church body.

14 posted on 04/24/2008 4:19:09 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: Boagenes

If we use the Bible as our guide, particularly the book of Acts, we see that the Apostles chose a council of equals to serve as the authority for doctrine.

The Ancient Christian Church continued that tradition when it used an Ecumenical Council to formally decide which books would comprise the New Testament.


15 posted on 04/24/2008 5:22:27 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: FormerLib
So where do we get a council of equals today?

Sounds good. I, for one, would like to see something like that. The problem is, because the RCC sees itself as the inheritor of apostolic authority (I'm willing to concede 3/4 of the argument to them, but not the other 1/4), they want everything to be on their terms. They have no intention (and you can see it in the responses from RCC members, here, too) of changing or modifying or even moderating any of their Catechism to accommodate ecumenism.

The position of the RCC when it comes to eccumenism seems to be..."why can't you all just become Catholics?". Somehow, I don't think that approach is going to get us anywhere.

16 posted on 04/24/2008 9:08:31 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: Boagenes

Unfortunately, the thread where you and I discussed this got pulled, apparently as a duplicate.

You are basically correct that we view ecumenism as conversion to Catholicism. However, one should not understand it as “conversion to Latin Rite”. There are local liturgical expressions that legitimately differ, most notably between the Eastern Rites (which follow the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the same as the Orthodox).

The degree of episcopal autonomy is much greater in the East as well, and is certain to be even greater when the Orthodox come to full communion with us, which, I think, is now within reach.

The Latin Church made several attmepts to accomodate the Protestants’ legitimate concerns. Trent clarified aspects of the doctrine that Luther questioned, and forbade paying for indulgences. About ten years ago an agreement was reached with the Lutheran regarding the relationship between faith and works. Vatican II reformed the Mass and encouraged lay participation, which, I think, were all attempts to elevate the priesthood of believers and invite the spirit of greater austerity to our liturgy.

We cannot, however, bargain away the Sacred Deposit of Faith enshrined in the dogmas of the Church.

I think you would agree that while bridges were built by us to invite Lutherans back, the Reform movement as a whole moved away from Luther and irreconcilably away from Catholicism. It is evident in complete rejection of Catholic ecclesiology and the sacraments, open hostility to veneration of Mary and saints, to religious orders, and severing of all links with the historical patristic theology. The developments of the past three centuries of the Reform movement point to not just theological divide but the lack of desire to seek unity on any terms on the part of most Protestants.


17 posted on 04/25/2008 9:54:04 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: 353FMG; Always Right; Antoninus; ArrogantBustard; CTK YKC; dan1123; DogwoodSouth; FourtySeven; ...
50 Days of Easter 2008 Celebration ping, dedicated to converts to the Catholic faith. If you want to be on the list but are not on it already, or if you are on it but do not want to be, let me know either publicly or privately.

This is a re-ping to this article that is a good illustration of the state of ecumenical relations today. The thread I pinged you to yesterday was pulled as duplicate.

Happy Easter. Christ is risen!

Alex.


Previously posted conversion stories:

Anti-Catholicism, Hypocrisy and Double Standards
Hauled Aboard the Ark
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part I: Darkness
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part II: Doubts
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part III: Tradition and Church
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part IV: Crucifix and Altar
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part V: The Catholics and the Pope
Why I Returned to the Catholic Church. Part VI: The Biblical Reality
His Open Arms Welcomed Me
Catholic Conversion Stories & Resources
My Personal Conversion Story
My (Imminent) Reception into the Roman Catholic Church
Catholics Come Home
My Journey of Faith
LOGIC AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF PROTESTANTISM
"What is Truth?" An Examination of Sola Scriptura
"Have you not read?" The Authority behind Biblical Interpretation
The Crisis of Authority in the Reformation
Our Journey Home
Our Lady’s Gentle Call to Peace
A story of conversion at the Lamb of God Shrine
Who is Mary of Nazareth?
Mary and the Problem of Christian Unity
Why I'm Catholic
A Convert's Response to Friends
My Story

Also see:
Sheep That Go Astray
Pope Benedict Goes to Washington Ecumenical Meeting at St. Joseph's Church, New York

18 posted on 04/25/2008 9:56:37 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: ChurtleDawg

Amen!


19 posted on 04/25/2008 10:01:41 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: annalex; Boagenes

I think what Boagenes was referring to was the type of ecumenism that will be necessary if/when our two Churches become one again. We cannot compromise on dogmatic points, obviously, but I’m sure there must be some things we Catholics can (and should) concede to the Orthodox. Only because of the amount of time that has passed since the schism, there must be some things that aren’t dogmatic but yet are differences where we can (and should) come to agreement.

I agree with your assessment that there simply can’t be any reconciliation with any Protestant sect unless they “come to us”. Those differences simply won’t be resolved until one’s particular judgement, or the Final Judgement upon Christ’s return. We are simply, and rightly, too far removed from the notion that apostolic succession isn’t a necessary, and historic, component of Christianity. This is one of the fundamental (if not *the* fundamental) difference that separates Catholics from Protestants. A difference that plainly implies that any “reconciliation” with Protestants must actually be a “capitulation” on their part. (or ours, but that would mean no one would really be “Catholic” anymore, except ironically the Orthodox, unless they too for some equally bizarre reason decided apostolic succession was no longer crucial)

I look forward to any clarification Boagenes may wish to share.


20 posted on 04/25/2008 10:22:15 AM PDT by FourtySeven (47)
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To: FourtySeven
I’m sure there must be some things we Catholics can (and should) concede to the Orthodox

One such thing would be to simply note that the late dogmas are a product of councils that did not include the Orthodox, and therefore are local Latin beliefs, consistent with Orthodoxy but not detailed with such precision by it. I wouldn't even call it concession.

The Orthodox, on the other hand, would be well advised to note that the body of scholastic thought produced in the West, -- I am talking of the procession of the Holy Ghost, original sin, limbo, venial/mortal sin distinctions, -- is not strictly speaking dogmatic, and can be assessed critically by the Orthodox in light of their own theological tradition.

21 posted on 04/25/2008 10:41:06 AM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Boagenes
So where do we get a council of equals today?

That would depend on what needs to be decided, wouldn't it?

A council of local Bishops is all that is needed to deal with local issues.

Questions that concern the entire Church and that have not previously been answered by the Seven Ecumenical Councils would require an Ecumenical Council comprised of the 5 ancient Patriarchates at the very least.

22 posted on 04/25/2008 2:21:51 PM PDT by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: annalex
I think Lutherans are closest to Catholics in the Protestant world. In fact, I think this is why the Pope greeted the head of the Lutheran Church (actually it was the ELCA which is descending into liberal madness - I'm LCMS and they're much more conservative...though I wonder for how much longer) first, after greeting the Eastern Orthodox representatives, at the ecumenical gathering when he was here.

Luther never wanted to split from the Catholic Church or create his own denomination. Our liturgy is essentially the same the as the Catholic liturgy, so are our hymns. We also believe in the real presence (though not transubstantiation - we leave it more open than that, as the presence of Christ "in, with, and under" the bread and wine - without specifying in what manner). However, we have only two Sacraments - those with visible, outward signs - Baptism and Communion.

I think Lutherans would come back into the fold before any of the other Protestant denominations because as you have noticed, some of them are completely out there and reject any and all trappings of the Church or the Sacraments.

23 posted on 04/25/2008 3:20:30 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: FourtySeven
I don't know if I have any more clarity to offer, but one thing that upsets me tremendously is to watch Christian disunity in the face of radical Islam that is on the march, and a militant atheism and secularism that threatens us all. As much as I can bicker, I hate to see Christian bickering.

Christians need unity, and I believe that means a single head of the Church, too, in some fashion, to speak for "Christendom". I think that it is effective to have such a figurehead (though as I said, I see a downside to it, as well). But one thing that "shames us" in front of the world, is our disunity. I'm just not sure how the Christian world would ever achieve such unity.

24 posted on 04/25/2008 3:24:57 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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To: Boagenes
I hope so, but I think individual conversions form diverse Protestant denominations are more likely to be the norm.

those with visible, outward signs - Baptism and Communion

But you have marriages and confessions, do you not? On the other hand, annointment of the sick and confirmation are with the visible signs, and marriage has a physical sign as well, even though it is usually done in private...

25 posted on 04/25/2008 3:54:18 PM PDT by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
We do not have confession, we have a general confession where the entire congregation kneels - we confess our sins directly to God. The pastor announces absolution after the general confession.

As to the Sacraments, we see Baptism as having the visible sign of the water, and Communion has the visible sign of the bread and wine. Confession is not a sacrament because there is no visible sign. Marriage...well, okay, maybe you have a point...but that part doesn't happen in the Church...

I don't know if we have anointing of the sick, but if we do, I don't believe it's considered a sacrament.

26 posted on 04/25/2008 5:43:18 PM PDT by Boagenes (I'm your huckleberry, that's just my game.)
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