Posted on 04/29/2008 6:06:04 AM PDT by restornu
Ancient writings unearthed in the last century and a half, primarily in Egypt, are lending support to doctrines and teachings of Joseph Smith, founder of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, a Brigham Young University professor of antiquities said Sunday.
C. Wilford Griggs, who has written extensively on Egypt and is working on excavating Christian burial grounds in Egypt, said scholars are now admitting that "Joseph Smith got into the antiquities" before experts in the field began their discoveries, but they won't accept his explanation.
Smith, an uneducated farm boy, claimed he translated the Book of Mormon from ancient gold plates using instruments given him by an angel, but scholars are refusing to believe that, Griggs said during a fireside, "Joseph Smith and the Egyptian Connection," at the Pleasant Grove Manila Stake Center. Some of the ancient writings have been found in the past few years.
Many scholars are now admitting that the book accepted as scripture by church members is an ancient book, but as one scholar of antiquities told Griggs, he had no problem with the gold plates and Smith's story would be acceptable "if you'd get rid of that angel."
Anciently, the fountain of Christian knowledge was Egypt and the Mediterranean region and for about 1,000 years 90 percent of the people were in the faith "until they were converted to Islam by the sword," he said.
"We are being flooded with (ancient) writings," Griggs said, describing many as coming from the biblical New Testament period. Many of the writings, now totaling about 8,000, are on papyri, but others are on metal plates. None are exactly alike, which lends historical credence to the finds.
The apostles scattered throughout the known world and established pockets of Christianity after the time of Jesus Christ, including Egypt, he said. Some of the best early Christian records were found in Egypt, where they survived because of the climate.
The traditional concept that the Bible is complete came about 400 A.D., he said. Before then Christians knew that many other writings existed.
Many of the Christian teachings found in Egyptian digs that are shared in common with Smith's teachings have to do with the temple "and how the heavens can be open to us," Griggs said.
Among those findings is the teaching of baptism by proxy for folks who have died without learning of Christ and his gospel, which centers on the resurrection.
Anciently, baptism was known as a "sealing" to go to heaven, he said. The word "sealing" is used today in LDS temples in similar fashion.
Most of the writings which have now been found were secret anciently and held back from the people until they proved their worthiness.
Some speak of the potential of their divinity, also a common theme Smith taught, which the first LDS prophet said was given to him by revelation.
"Several of the gospels ... show that revelation was alive and well in the ancient world. Revelation was a keystone," Griggs said.
Yet centuries later, revelation and temples were denounced by religious leaders, including Augustine, as unnecessary.
I would guess that you are correct, since the Gnostic mystery religions of the Mediterranean in the Hellenistic period usually had such worthiness requirements for being initiated into deeper knowledge, etc.
These degrees of intiation are echoed today in various Masonic organizations as well as in recently invented religions like "A Course Of Miracles" that Oprah Winfrey has recently been peddling.
The following statements certainly sound like "challenges" to Christianity:
The traditional concept that the Bible is complete came about 400 A.D., he said. Before then Christians knew that many other writings existed.
Most of the writings which have now been found were secret anciently and held back from the people until they proved their worthiness.
Some speak of the potential of their divinity, also a common theme Smith taught, which the first LDS prophet said was given to him by revelation.
Yet centuries later, revelation and temples were denounced by religious leaders, including Augustine, as unnecessary.
And don’t forget Scientology.
Of course it offers no physical proof of these discoveries. Does someone at least have photographs of these discoveries or have they been secreted away like the golden plates?
Religion Moderator
*Footnote on Caucuses
When we first began using Caucus labels to close threads in the interest of providing “safe harbor,” the Calvinists posted several articles which represented what the Catholics believe. Several Catholics strongly objected to such a thread qualifying for a closed caucus. Other posters agreed and so did I.
After much discussion on thread, we determined that a caucus thread cannot be used as cover to take shots at another confession, argue against other confessions’ doctrines and traditions and so on. The other confession has an interest in rebutting statements made “against” it - no matter how mild those statements might be.
Factual statements alone cannot remove a caucus protection, e.g. the current Pope is named Benedict, Martin Luther died in 1546, etc.
But when a poster of another confession protests that statements made in a Caucus are incomplete, inaccurate, a strawman or whatever – and I determine those statements to have merit - the Caucus label must be removed so that rebuttals can be made.
Re: I have never barge in on other closed threads to disrupt do you not believe in the golden rule!
The golden rule? Oh is that where the one with the “Golden Plates” makes the rules. Guess I’d have to see the Golden Plates first.
If you mean by Golden Rule, “Do unto others as you’d have them to unto you,” then yes, I would want others to know the Truth (Jesus Christ), as I have come to know Him.
Jesus (the Truth) came to set the captives free.
I read the Book of Mormon, and although I was open-minded about it, it soon became apparent that it was a novel in biblical style, and making a case for the conquest and subjugation of the indians and other dark-skinned races.
“This is LDS caucus a closed session it is not open for debate it LDS News.
Please respect this thread!
I have never barge in on other closed threads to disrupt do you not believe in the golden rule!
“
Speak English and use proper punctuation and grammar??
What if the title to a thread was:
Ancient writings support atheist doctrine and teachings (Atheist Caucus)
Would it be disingenuous for Christians to ask that the caucus designation be removed and for proof of these writings?
BINGO
Should this really have “caucus” status?
The article does not explicitly state, but seems to imply, that there have been discovered purportedly Christian writings which predate the canonical New Testament texts and which contain doctrines that conform to LDS theology.
Is the argument that these texts are simply fragments of or paraphrases of the Book Of Mormon?
Or is the argument that these texts supplement the Book Of Mormon?
If so, this would be an enormous archaeological breakthrough.
To date there has never been found a non-canonical Christian document that definitively predates the canonical documents. The only non-canonical document that any claim can be made for at all is the purported "Gospel Of Thomas", but even the earliest daters of that text give a compositional range that falls after the composition of the canonical Gospels on the late end. There are no internal historical details in the Thomas text that give any clue to when it was written and the parallels between the layout of Thomas and the Diatessaron indicate that it was probably cribbed from the Diatessaron - which is a much more well-attested text - some time in the 170s or 180s.
So if papyri were found that are undeniably Christian and likely predate the canonical texts, this would be a major finding that would be reported in organs besides The Deseret News.
I really wish the article had given more concrete details of who found these texts, exactly where they were found, which scholars have made these analytical comments, etc.
My question has always been that if Mormonism was brought to America, why didn't European explorers find a continent inhabited by Mormons? Why did it fail?
Just a thought for discussion.
Native American language is not Semitic but Asiatic.
Native American genetics is not Semitic but Asiatic.
None of the historic events, peoples or civilizations described in the Book of Mormon have found any outside corroboration.
Believe with faith if you must, but lets not insult the truth by saying it conforms to your faith; it does not.
Mormons are great people though, my hat is off to them for their strong faith, strong families, and strong ties to the GOP.
I agree, this would be an incredible discovery and there would at least be pictures.
Of course I still have problems with the claim that Egypt was the “fountain” of Christian knowledge for a thousand years.
HOWEVER. Keep it respectful and debate or discuss like adults. I don't have patience for disrespect today.
Due to the excerpt posted by wagglebee, which compares LDS beliefs to non-LDS beliefs and in particular Augustine - the caucus label will be removed and the thread opened for discussion.
What on earth does the "golden rule" have to do with this situation. If I was posting an article like this I would want people to freely comment - so is it you who doesn't believe in the golden rule?
And by the way, I have "many" un-named experts who agree with me...
Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:
Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.