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The Worship of Mary? (An Observation)

Posted on 05/30/2008 10:21:34 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007

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To: rollo tomasi; MarkBsnr
Over 20 books, written before 100AD, were never questioned as not being inspired, hence always deemed from oral Apostolistic tradition. The fight was over 5 books suspected as not being inspired and geographically flip-flopped around by various “authoritative” councils.

At times it is worthwhile to read a "sympathetic" version concerning the history of the a Septuagint. The bobbing and weaving while still attempting to maintain a semblance of authenticity is instructive.

For example the Catholic Encyclopedia:

On account of its diffusion alone the hellenizing Jews and early Christians , copies of the Septuagint were multiplied; and as might be expected, many changes, deliberate as well as involuntary, crept in. The necessity of restoring the text as far as possible to its pristine purity was felt. The following is a brief account of the attempted corrections:

Catholic Encyclopedia - The Septuagint - Critical corrections of Origen, Lucian, and Hesychius

There has been no proof whatsoever that a single pristine copy of the Septuagint ever existed, let alone one which was written in 72 days.

5,921 posted on 06/15/2008 1:17:03 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know no thing.)
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To: Mad Dawg
What Calvin "gets" and wants to convey is the sovereign and awesome majesty of God.

Yes, but he goes far off into error in trying to convey it.

5,922 posted on 06/15/2008 1:21:38 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: OLD REGGIE

Where do we go for a pristine NT or OT? The textual apparatus in my Gk NT is pretty impressive.


5,923 posted on 06/15/2008 1:38:14 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg; annie; Laurie
This contradicts the frequently made charge that only people who go to the Catholic Church can be saved.

"frequently made charge"? I haven't seen it once let alone "frequently". Methinks thou art guilty of exercising poetic license.

On the other hand you probably have seen the frequently made charge that the Catholic Church insists that salvation is available only to those "...subject to the Roman Pontiff."

And...the Catholic Church uses poetic license to explain how it doesn't really mean what it says.

"We declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302).


5,924 posted on 06/15/2008 1:56:26 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know no thing.)
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To: MarkBsnr; John Leland 1789
Why would Jesus build His Church upon the human Peter if that Church would die with Peter?

While the Catholic Church exalts Peter it does not teach that the Church would be built on the human Peter.
5,925 posted on 06/15/2008 2:03:40 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know no thing.)
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To: MarkBsnr; enat
I was told by a poster here numerous times that I am going to hell.

I think that is a terrible thing for anyone to say, although I don't recall seeing such a thing here. (I admit I am forgetfull though.) :)

I don't believe it would be a breach of confidentiality if you identified that poster and pinged her/him so I, and I am sure others, can join in in condemnation of such a terrible thing.
5,926 posted on 06/15/2008 2:18:30 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know no thing.)
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To: Mad Dawg
Okay. I'll duck. You shoot.

Spitballs aren't fatal.
5,927 posted on 06/15/2008 2:32:09 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know no thing.)
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To: Mad Dawg
Where do we go for a pristine NT or OT?

I agree - there is none. However the Hebrew O.T. and Christian N.T. was accepted rather early by the whole Church.

The "legendary" Septuagint bounced from pillar to post for many hundreds of years and wasn't accepted as Canon until the Council of Trent..

5,928 posted on 06/15/2008 2:39:25 PM PDT by OLD REGGIE (I am most likely a Biblical Unitarian? Let me be perfectly clear. I know no thing.)
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To: mgist

God knows those who are truly His. If a person truly knows Christ, they will have love in their hearts. Anyone can claim to be saved, but as I said, God knows their hearts. Many of those never had love in their own lives. God’s grace is even sufficient for them and He will show them the way if they let Him. Yes, true Christians are always under attack. I’d say from the moment of their conversion.

No, knowing Jesus is NOT a get out of jail free card. It always involves repentance from besetting sins (we all have them), asking for forgiveness from Him, allowing Him to cleanse us. It is a process. We are saved, yes, but He has to remove a lot of stuff inside of us that prevents us from being all we can be in Christ.

Of course we have to keep love in our hearts and I believe most do, but again, how many people who have finally found the Lord have so much baggage in their lives that they can’t love right away? God has to continually show them those areas where they need His cleansing power.


5,929 posted on 06/15/2008 2:53:00 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: mgist

Repentance is also necessary. the Holy Spirit shows us our sinful ways. It’s up to us to repent and ask God to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Read your Bible faithfully, as well. In it is the truth we need to avoid deception. It is a revelatory book. God will reveal His truth to His children.


5,930 posted on 06/15/2008 2:57:33 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Running On Empty

Amen, ROE! This vision didn’t smack of authenticity at all.


5,931 posted on 06/15/2008 2:59:14 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: mgist

Thank you, dear mgist. We don’t have to hate eachother because we disagree. Bless you.


5,932 posted on 06/15/2008 3:00:34 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Mad Dawg

I was just being sarcastic, MD.


5,933 posted on 06/15/2008 3:01:22 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: Mad Dawg
And then we look at the Scriptures, where it seems undeniable that SOME are not saved.

I would suggest, dear brother, that they are not saved because they failed the initial test of John 3:16.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Others, having met that test, failed to keep his commandments to so serious a degree as to compromise their own salvation: what we know as mortal sin.

5,934 posted on 06/15/2008 3:05:16 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: roamer_1

Very good post. Even the land needs a rest if we are to produce good fruit, vegetables, etc. Isn’t there something in the OT about resting land for seven years? No wonder our land is depleted of needed minerals, etc.


5,935 posted on 06/15/2008 3:08:25 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: OLD REGGIE
The "legendary" Septuagint bounced from pillar to post for many hundreds of years and wasn't accepted as Canon until the Council of Trent..

That's just bizarre. The 73 books of the Bible weren't declared as accepted as Canon until the Council of Trent. But the Vulgate (dating to approximately AD 405) included 73 books plus three books in an additional Apocrypha.

5,936 posted on 06/15/2008 3:11:10 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: John Leland 1789

Great post, John.


5,937 posted on 06/15/2008 3:11:27 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: MarkBsnr

I said He is IN the Reformed, not that He needed reforming.


5,938 posted on 06/15/2008 3:12:55 PM PDT by Marysecretary (.GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL)
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To: John Leland 1789
Peter knew NOTHING of a perpetual New Testament Church or of a Church Age.

That's some fancy mind reading there.

He preached ONLY to the Nation of Israel, and the Elders of Israel.

Really? Even in Rome?

His audiences are named specifically in Acts chapters 2 through 6.

Does Mark indicate the list in those chapters of Acts are exhaustive?

5,939 posted on 06/15/2008 3:14:38 PM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: Marysecretary
Even the land needs a rest if we are to produce good fruit, vegetables, etc. Isn’t there something in the OT about resting land for seven years? No wonder our land is depleted of needed minerals, etc.

Exactly so, and that is what I mean to say. Those things laid out by God as being best for Man can always be found to be truly and exactly that. I believe the establishment of the Kingdom will return us to those ordinances, as it should be, IMHO, even now.

5,940 posted on 06/15/2008 5:35:25 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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